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1960 MGA Restoration


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Well, it's been over a month in the shop.  It had a LOT of small issues.  It is currently running and driving, which is a good sign.  The current issues are: a rear brake drum that has been turned too much, so will have to be replaced.  The speedometer gear that goes into the transmission is bad, so the speedometer doesn't work.  The generator doesn't work, even though it was professionally rebuilt.  The wiper motor doesn't work and has not been thoroughly tested yet.  The roadster top replacement has not been started yet, although it should be coming up shortly.  Everything else seems to be functioning to a reasonable level, which is good news.  That bad news is that all this sorting, chasing, diagnosing, repairing, and replacing is at $127/hr or so, so the bill is going to be absolutely astronomical, so not looking forward to that.  I've already paid a 35% down payment with the other 65% still to go.

 

Picking up my enclosed trailer on Thursday, so now I can start going to car shows further away much more often.  I'll still have to outfit it with a winch, spare tires, and hold-down equipment and make sure I learn to use it properly.  I'll also have to get it inspected, titled, and registered.  More money down the toilet!

 

To add insult to injury, side story, my "antique" 1997 Saab 900 has been in two different shops now for over two months...in order to replace just a crank position sensor!  In a massive comedy of errors, incompetence, complete lack of communication skills, back-orders, and arrogance has ruled the day to allow this to happen.  It should have been diagnosed and repaired in about five days and it's been over two months.  Will be calling the shop again Friday, as evidently, it would never occur to them to call a customer and update them with progress, they would rather not get paid and have another car clog up their full storage lot!

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Picked up my enclosed trailer today.  No problems there, but have a lot to add like tie down straps, winch, spare tire carriers, title, registration, inspection, etc.  should have everything done in about a month.

 

Got my Fall Hershey application in the mail today, so filling that out and sending it in.  Things are actually falling into place for me to get the MG to Hershey so far.  

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Another update, the shop has still not started the top yet.  They are working on the generator and the armature has a flaking insulation coating, which is causing some arcing.  Why this was not addressed/replaced/mentioned to me when I spent $$$ to have it rebuilt 5 years ago is beyond me. 

 

The wiper motor is dead completely, but they think they can fix it.  It probably has the same problem with the armature, only worse.  New brake drums are in, they just have to be painted, swapped out, and adjusted. 

 

Shop says another two weeks, which in reality means another month.  Total bill should be around $7k for all this work!  Believe it or not, with all this diagnostic, testing, and detail work, it's not very expensive compared to other shops.  Their rate is much lower then their competitors, but it's still shocking to get a bill like that. I budgeted about $3.5k for this work.   If I would have paid someone to restore my car from day one, I would think it would be around $200k. 

 

I don't know how any restoration shop can stay in business, nor do I know how any enthusiast can afford to pay the bills for this work at the same time.  When you factor in rent, insurance, employee pay, taxes, etc., even $200k to a restoration shop only produces a small profit.  It looks like the only way to restore a car without going bankrupt is to do all or most of the work yourself, which is what most of the folks on this forum seem to be doing quite successfully.

 

Have a great July 4th!

 

 

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Hi Chris,

After all of the difficult work you have done successfully on your car to get it to this point, I was curious what makes recovering the top difficult enough that you decided to farm it out? I think it would be useful for people reading this thread in the future to know why as they decide what to do on their cars versus what to farm out. I apologize if you already went through this. This is by way of saying that from what I have seen I think you could have done it and had superior results.

Happy Independence Day,

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

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Posted (edited)

Lew,

   1) I have zero experience with convertible tops.

 

   2) I've watched the guy at Carlisle or Hershey who does it live each show in his tent, and it looks very difficult.

 

   3) There is no room for error.  If you trim too short, or worse, get the lift-the-dot fasteners wrong (there are many on this car) you can't really fix it.  This is the main reason I wanted to leave this to professionals.  I farmed out the top on my 1930 Plymouth and a supposed "professional" at a shop that was in business for 40 years failed so badly on part of it that he had to start over.  The final product was marginal and the snaps/lift-the-dots require much stretching to fit correctly.  This was a "professional" so I don't think I could do it without messing it up.  Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't want to risk it and wanted to just farm it out.

 

Chris

   

Edited by hursst (see edit history)
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It sounds like the type of job that is better tackled with the help of a friend from the MG club that has done one and knows the ins and outs of the job. I did my convertible top on my T-Bird 6 years ago and have been pleased with the result. I don’t think I would have considered doing it if I didn’t have the following:

  • The Trim and Sealer Manual used by the production workers on the Ford assembly line.
  • A video from a T-Bird parts supplier on how to do the work involved (somewhat helpful).
  • Two articles from the T-Bird club magazine on how to restore your convertible top (very helpful).
  • Step by step pictures and instructions from the T-Bird restoration manual.
  • Support from fellow club members who had replaced their tops.

Previous to this I had also replaced the convertible top on my daughter’s Miata with her then boy friend (with good mechanical skills). That was really a “piece of cake” with excellent directions on how to do the job and potential problem areas.

 

I was not confident that I could find a competent installer since many have left us over the years due to old age. I am only offering this as information for restorers in the future. Each person has to make a decision based on their own skill and comfort level. From what you said, I think you chose correctly.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

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I think it is a wise decision to know ones limitations. You have done a beautiful job thus far with your restoration and not wanting to 'mess up' the top installation. Letting a pro do the job is not a bad thing. However I will add, not unlike Lew B. I tried one myself and it came out great. Many years ago I had a '57 190SL. The car itself was a good 10 footer. But the top was non existent. All that was there was the frame. The timing for my ownership of this car was completely wrong as I had 2 toddlers at the time. Funds were extremely limited to say the least. I was able to squeeze just enough juice to purchase the top but not for a pro to install it. This was before the internet and with the top came pretty decent how to instructions. I got it installed and when it was finished one could not tell it was done by a first timer. Of course I have/had a lot of experience doing flooring both carpet and sheet goods with my day job. Fitting upholstery while being different is also similar in a lot of ways. 

Seeing the skils you have used to restore this car I am sure you could do the top and it would come out perfect, but by all means stick with your comfort level.

 

Cant wait to see it on the show field in Hershey.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Chris,

Wise decision on farming out the top to a professional.  There are a lot of steps and tricks of the trade that the amateur just doesn't have.  Plus, if you do not have an upholstery sewing machine, sewing the top and getting seams straight will be a very difficult task.  The tech that sews tops does it daily and even they can err at times. 

 

Are you having the top done in Sunbrella  fabric?  That is the optimal product for a good looking, long lasting top and it is available in a wide pallet of colors today.  As far as Concourse judging, I don't know (today) if they ding you for not having the original material (vinyl) but I see a lot of classics using that fabric.   I just had my Spider top done in Sunbrella.  What a difference over vinyl, the original product. 

 

With all the sweat and tears that you have expended on your MGA, farming out the top to a shop and letting them do the construction, fitting, stretching and all of the steps to get the top to look good takes YEARS of experience to make it right.  Even though the MGA top looks small, it is huge in the amount of work to get it right.     

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I bought the vinyl reproduction top in gray from Moss, which looks exactly like the original (I still have the original top, but it is not usable).  I'm going to have the shop reuse all the original top fasteners as well.  My car will mostly be doing show duty or the top will be down while driving, so it should last a very long time as it should be mostly out of the sun and well maintained.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's been yet another two weeks!  They've fixed the generator, but still waiting on parts on the wiper motor.  They claim that the top doesn't fit, it's too short and they are in contact with the manufacturer.  I told them that an extra piece of fabric is included, to be sewn on and covered by the trim strip and adjusted accordingly and that it's not too short.  I'm now going to have to drive back there to work this out, as this is a perfect recipe to put my car in a corner and let it sit forever if I don't do anything about it.  Very disappointed that they couldn't have figured this out themselves.  This shows they don't have much experience with tops.  As usual, zero communication, it's always me that has to call in...not just this shop, but literally every shop I have to deal with.  They simply refuse to communicate in any manner whatsoever.  

 

Coming down to the finish here, I'm going to have to put pressure on them to wrap this up or I'll have to find another shop to do the top (which won't be easy).  Hershey is only a little over two months out now.

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Hi Chris,

Has the shop reviewed the top installation instructions on MGAGuru.com? The instructions seem to be pretty comprehensive and would be a big help for anyone tackling the job.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

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Lew, I'll ask when I see them.  I assumed they knew how to install it already...

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On 7/4/2024 at 6:42 AM, hursst said:

The wiper motor is dead completely, but they think they can fix it.

These wiper motors can be rebuilt.I think there are new ones available, also. I bought a rebuilt replacement. Very happy with it. 

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On 7/28/2024 at 5:14 PM, hursst said:

Lew, I'll ask when I see them.  I assumed they knew how to install it already...

You used the forbidden A word. I hope they get it right but it may be time to look for a trim shop. Is this the mechanic shop that you use that you have entrusted to install the convertible top? With nothing but respect towards you, I would never trust the same guy that is rebuilding a washer motor and generator with installing a top. Just the same as I would not want an upholsterer doing my mechanical work. Good Luck.

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  • 2 weeks later...

TAkerry, they have an upholstery shop with whom they contract.  It's easier to have them contract it rather rather than me try to try to time two appointments.  We're approaching 3 months in the shop now, so it just needs to get done.  Hershey is two months away, so I need this car back no later than August 31st.  I'll be applying pressure on the shop next week if they aren't finished yet.  My patience is for 3 months, as that's what I predicted it would take.

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I understand the frustration when something is out of your control. When I did my 77 the shop took a month and half to build my motor, then the car sat in their shop for almost a year to get it installed. With my 79 they only took 3 years to build the motor but this time I opted to install myself. It took me a year but at least I knew what was happening every day. I hope they get you taken care of soon. Looking forward to seeing it at Hershey.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Getting the MGA back from the British car shop tomorrow.  I'll have to give it a good once over, but from me speaking with the owner and the write-up that was done, they did an extremely thorough job sorting the car out and it should have no issues at this point.  Of course, just yesterday, the Moss repro fuel sending unit failed within about 40 miles of driving from brand new, so they had to replace that.  The voltage regulator wasn't working well enough (it was original), so that was just replaced as well.  Top was installed yesterday.  I'll have to give it a thorough look myself to make sure they didn't do additional damage or lose anything.

 

You don't want to know how high the bill was.  I will say that the government giving the right of shops to add "shop supplies" fees to every service they do is ludicrous.  I bet I have around $800 just in nonsense taxes and shop fees.

 

Anyway, really looking to finally getting the car back and FINALLY being able to drive it eight years from emerging from the graveyard.  I'll be giving it a complete detail and some more minor paint repairs and I should be ready for Hershey in only...six weeks!!!  Barring any unforeseen circumstances, it should easily make my goal of driving it onto the Hershey show field.

 

Photos tomorrow with first drive video soon to follow.

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Thanks Martin!

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Posted (edited)

Got the MGA back home safely...barely!  I'm new(ish) to trailing and as I was driving home on I-95 with the MGA in my enclosed trailer, I hit a bump in the road and my trailer brakes activated.  I immediately knew something major was wrong, so luckily, I was able to immediately pull off into a large shoulder area that is a very popular place for trucks to break down right at the largest bottleneck of all of I-95.  Sure enough, my emergency brake cable had pulled out and activated the trailer brakes.  Not sure how that happened, but it looked like it somehow made contact with the main electrical plug line and the geometry went just right over the bump and set the trailer brakes.  Will have to do some testing to make sure nothing got damaged, as the trailer brakes are now super jittery at speeds less than 10mph.

 

Anyway, MGA is back.  Took it for its first drive (my camera shut off the video after a few seconds, I must have hit a button while filming.  Hard to drive and film at the same time without a phone holder).  Overall, very satisfied, the car seems to run and drive beautifully.  The shop did an excellent job of getting most things sorted out, safe, and reliable.  However, upon its first shakedown by me, I noticed a lot of things wrong:

 

1) Brand new horn failed (Moss' fault, but wasn't tested by the shop until I picked the car up)

2) Turn signal light doesn't work (wasn't tested by the shop until I picked the car up)

3) Map light doesn't work (bad ground, my fault)

4) License plate lights don't work (bulbs burned out)

5) Weatherstripping at front driver's door mashed and not attached in a large portion due to careless ingress and egress by the shop

6) Chips in the paint on the door and dashboard that weren't there before

7) Headlights wired incorrectly resulting in one light bright, one regular, then vice versa when the dimmer switch is pressed (my fault, but wasn't tested by the shop at all)

8- Speedometer needle shakes (the shop replaced the speedo gear, but didn't thoroughly test it, I guess)

9) Significant valvetrain noise (I don't know if this is "normal" or not yet)

10) Hood is stuck shut, pull lever will not fully open hood.  Worked fine when I dropped the car off; did not work when tested at the shop when I picked it up

11) Roadster top fits beautifully when up, but is way too tight (Moss' fault).  I doubt I'll ever be able to put the top up again.

 

Although these are overall minor issues, it shows the shop did not test at all or thoroughly enough the horn and all lighting on the car.  They were careless with the minor damage they did to the paint and weatherstripping.  I guess that's going to happen with any shop when they have your car for 3 months and many people work on it and it's not their car.  Still disappointing.  Will have a lot of work to do to repair all the above issues.  

 

I guess we're not quite finished yet.  Another update when I get things sorted out for Hershey.

 

 

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Edited by hursst (see edit history)
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Wow it look fantastic!!   I guess it is a pain to know that you did a better job than the "professionals".  It really sucks because you can't do everything, it is exhausting.

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Its a shame you had those issues after the shop. But doesnt sound like anything that cannot be fixed easily enough. The longer the top stays in the up position the more it may stretch out over time (I guess?). Everything looks great on the car. 

Did you have the emergency tear away brake cable too tight? On my trailers its almost as long as the safety chains. I have travelled more than my share of miles on 95 in your area, I can only imagine the anxiety when you had a problem. Glad you were able to take care of things safely. Not a fun road to drive on a good day without a trailer!

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Chris, the car looks great! I understand your frustration with the work done by the restoration shop. I would let the owner know what you found. 

As for the top, it does look really good. Trimacar might offer his opinion, but I think most shops will err on the side of stretching everything out and making the fit very tight. The reason is that any convertible driven at highway speeds (55 mph or more) could be subject to ballooning of the top in the front. You don’t see that too much these days but it did happen when a poor job was done on a replacement top. I think if you let it sit out in the sun for a few hours you will be able to work it a little more easily.

Looking forward to seeing it at Hershey.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

 

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Thanks, Lew!

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TAKerry, trailer is brand new and so am I to trailering.  I only had about 125 miles on the trailer when the brake cable came out.  I think just bad luck and I had it positioned under the main electrical cable, which must be what triggered it.  It wasn't tight, there was plenty of slack, but I've since repositioned it to make sure I don't have this happen again.  I'll have to do a test run before I tow again to see why it was chattering below 10mph.

 

As far as the MGA, I spent about 7 hours on it today repairing all the undone things the shop didn't do.  Took me about 30 minutes to get the hood open by moving and twisting it in every direction I could without damaging it.  It finally came loose.  Took out the grille to gain access, as I knew it would get hung up again.  Took about 2 hours of adjustments, testing, and getting locked out again multiple times before I got it to where it opens consistently again.  I found the only way to get it right was to leave the lower portion of the latch slightly loose to give it some slight play, and that seemed to do the trick.  I also discovered that somehow the emergency latch hook was pushing forward slightly and catching the upper shelf rail, where the lower latches are mounted, when you would try to open the hood, causing all sorts of problems.  This was most of the issue with the hood.  Had to bend the rail inward slightly so the latch hook would clear.  Of course, there is much paint damage all around the latches from all this nonsense, so I'll have to do a lot of touch up shortly.

 

Replaced the broken rear license plate bulbs.  Works fine now.  Switched the wires in one of the headlights, so now I have two brights and two low beam, as expected.  Fixed the driver's door weatherstripping by prying up each attached metal fastener from the long strip of them that is imbedded in the weatherstrip, after it had been fairly well damaged by the shop.  Seems okay now.  The map light has a newly disconnected wire, so I should be able to fix that next.  Touched up the two paint chip areas on the dash and the door that the shop caused.  Very minor damage.  I'll have to polish it out a little and see if I can make it even less visible.  I can already see numerous deductions coming for Hershey, but I think a First Junior is easily attainable.

 

I got out the tonneau cover, which has shrunk a lot over 54 years of storage, so trying to get it heated up in the sun and stretched out slowly.  Was going to work on refitting the top as well to do the same process.  However, found more errors from the shop.  This time, the upholstery shop to which the British Car shop farmed out my top forgot to install the two cups that go in the top frame to help seat the top bow into the two plinths on the top of each corner of the windshield where the top is secured.  I had to cut out the fabric further and hammer in the original cups into the wood frame.  Luckily, they fit perfectly, mostly because they were original pieces.  Also noticed that the shop had failed to install the center top latch that latches the center of the top to the windshield frame.  Had to find the pre-drilled holes for those, screw in the latch, then create some spacers for the latch hook to get them low enough to where the latch was tight, since the pre-drilled holes in the repro wood front top brace were a little too low.  I also took the horn apart to see if I could figure out what was wrong.  I couldn't find anything obvious wrong with it, so I'll have to buy a new horn (not from Moss!).

 

Last, I cleaned the paint up a little and waxed the car.  Will have to buff the shine a little more to get it as nice as possible.  Still have a lot of cleaning and detailing to do to get the car in good shape.  I plan to drive it very sparingly to at least keep it fresh, but not too much, as I don't want to damage it or get it too dirty before Hershey.  Also, not too happy with the passenger side door gaps, so may work on that a little further.  Door sticks out a little too far.

 

Still plenty more work to do on this car to get it to where I want it to be, but looks like 99.95% there.

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Posted (edited)

Strange, difficult day today with the MGA saga.  Since I had my trailer emergency brakes activate, I've been needing to inspect them, as they chatter a lot under 10mph sometimes.  I reset the brake controller by rebalancing and fine tuning.  It got much better, but it's still there a little.  It's also time for my 200-mile brake adjustment, since it's a new trailer, so thought I could kill two birds with one stone.  Put the front axle on an easy ramp and got to work removing the lug nuts.  I soon noticed a sharp sensation in my fingers; maybe I was touching a sharp edge?  Nope, I was getting shocked.  I got one wheel off, but the shocks were so bad I had to stop working.  I disconnected the winch battery- still shocked.  Disconnected the brake battery in the trailer- still shocked.  Disconnected the trailer from my truck completely- still shocked.  There was no power at all to the trailer, yet I was getting a shock large enough where I couldn't work on the trailer.  Went to the expert trailer shop, told the guy the story.  They had never heard of such a thing. 

 

I had my suspicions, as my driveway goes directly under multiple high-tension power lines, which is where I have to do the work.  I did a deep dive on the internet, and sure enough, RVs and enclosed trailers, when parked under high-tension power lines, will absorb some of the 250,000 Volts going thru those wires.  The trailer becomes electrically charged, but will release a very low amount of electricity.  So, when I touch the metal of the trailer, I create a ground, and I get shocked.   RVelectricity: Can you get a shock from an unplugged RV? - RV Travel   I tested this by driving to another location away from the power lines, WITH everything hooked up, and NO shock.  Who would ever have guessed this.  So, I'll have to ground the trailer into the ground in order to work on it.  To add insult to injury, the fast ramp I bought, when taking the trailer off the ramp, will curve up and wedge itself under the chassis of the trailer so you can't remove it.  I had to jack up the chassis of the trailer about 1" to remove the ramp (Photo 1).  Needless to say, I wasted almost an entire day with this nonsense and accomplished nothing with the trailer.

 

Back to the MGA.  I noticed some more damage, the upper portion of the front kick panel fiber board was broken off and hanging by the vinyl cover.  More carelessness from the shop in ingress/egress to the car.  Will be an easy fix, at least.  Also noticed that the turn signal works on the passenger side, but doesn't work properly on the driver's side.  The switch appears to have a built-in flasher, which doesn't fully turn on in the one direction, which is probably causing the problem with the turn signal light not lighting up.  In examining the hood, which the scratches that I'm going to try to remove, I noticed a substance on the driver's side portion of the hood that seems to be lightly embedded in the clear coat.  It looked like someone put armor all on it and quickly smeared it a little and let it dry.  It did not come off with any rubbing and cleaning, so it seems to be in the finish.  It should easily come off when further wet sane, but even more examples of lack of attention to detail at these shops.  Overall, still minor issues, but it's causing me to spend an exorbitant amount of time repairing all this this minor damage and things that were not tested when they should have been.

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Edited by hursst (see edit history)
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I’m surprised they didn’t put some kind of warning sticker on the trailer regarding what you encountered. I’m being a bit facetious, but have you seen the warning stickers on ladders today? At least with the internet it was easy to look up and confirm. For the good money you paid for the work they did, you shouldn’t have to go through what you are having to do now. We all share your frustration at this point. From the work you have done the end result is great.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

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keiser, I'm going to try a long metal bar with a wire attached today, as a temporary fix, just so I can work on it.  This is what I use on my portable generator, as suggested in the generator's owner's manual.  I'll have to look into an easier system, as you suggest, where I can easily deploy it, instead of having to pound a long bar in the ground.

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Perhaps it makes sense to inventory the damage and time spent and put a polite request into the shop for some compensation back, even if you meet in the middle.   Good luck on the show circuit and on the road - great looking car!!

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That electric situation is the craziest thing I have heard today. If this is going to be your permanent parking spot for the trailer it may be worthwhile to get a copper grounding bar from an electric supply house and install permanently. Perhaps you could attach a cable with a quick clamp akin to a battery cable. Maybe even attach an auxiliary plate on the trailer in the same location. It would be an easy hookup every time. Set a decorative treated 4 x 4 post beside it so it wont be hit by a snow plow or lawn mower.

 

As far as your additional repairs, it pretty much stinks you have so much to go over after the shop which was supposed to take care of those issues. I am the least confrontational person you could meet. If the shop is a place/resource you plan on using in the future I would have to say something just so they know about the issues. IF you never plan on using them again I think I would sit down with a list and at least ask for gas money to Hershey.

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Posted (edited)

All good advice.  I did mention to the shop yesterday that the upholstery shop they used did not install a few parts, the regular shop didn't give me back my original top when I picked the car up (I forgot about it and so did they; they kept it), and that I was not able to get out and drive it because it had so many small things, mainly lighting and dash functionality to repair first.  They apologized, but that's about as far as I can take it.  I did want to at least let them know that they didn't fully complete the job.

 

They are overall a good shop, I have no other shops nearby, and they are struggling with not being able to find any qualified help.  I think if I say anything more than I already have, I'll burn a bridge and not have that resource available anymore.

 

As far as the trailer, my solution is Photo 1.  Worked perfectly, no more shock.  I use this setup for my portable generator, but I'll reproduce it so I can just bring it with me.  As long as I'm not touching the frame from outside the trailer, I don't get shocked without the ground system I made, so I won't install a permanent "station" where I park it.  I'll only use the temp setup when I need to work on it.

 

Back to the MG, continuing the work.  Starting wet sanding the hood with 2500, to try to remove the scratches in it from my first wet sanding attempt.  I also noticed that the paint has a hairline crack at the hood safety latch where we couldn't get it open.  The stress on trying to get the hood unlatched cracked it.  I don't think it's noticeable unless you really get up close to it.  Nothing I can do.

 

Getting this car ready for Hershey, along with getting the trailer ready for Hershey, has now become a full-time job that I'll be working every day I have time for the next 6 weeks, it seems.  Good luck to the rest of you that will be prepping for Hershey!

100_9055.JPG

Edited by hursst (see edit history)
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25 minutes ago, hursst said:

Good luck to the rest of you that will be prepping for Hershey!

I've been prepping over the last month and I still have things to do...it's actually given me a good reason to go over the entire car which I have neglected over the last 5 years or so ( life events, home improvements etc and work get in the way)Hershey will be here before you know it Chris !

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I understand completely about burning bridges. The shop that did my motor had it for 3 years. Many a time I was tempted to get what they and look elsewhere but knew in the long run it would only hurt me. The guys that did mine are generally a good shop that do all of my maintenance on my work trucks and daily drivers. So they get a lot of business from me. Yes you are so right about good help. The same shop I mentioned above closed down one of his 3 locations this past spring because he could not find competent help to run it.

 

As to sanding the hood you may want to go higher than 2500. I think I would even go as high as 4000-6000. gradually working up. The finer the paper the finer the scratches.

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