1955 Engine Rebuild

[KAD36]

No turning back now...

 

.

 

After much friendly "persuasion", I decided to tackle this rebuild myself.  Well, sort of. I found a local retired machinist who had some past experience with nailheads (401s) and used to rebuild motors for NY state highway equipment, so we will be doing it together.  This is the best of all worlds as I can keep the work local, get some hands on experience and have some guidance in putting the short block together accurately.  Got it out of the engine bay no sweat (thanks for the advice JD), maybe just a few tense moments when the cherry picker hit the top of the garage door and I couldn't clear the engine from the front of the car.  Oops.  Measure twice, lift once.  I have a chain drawn up between the frame and transmission to hold the trans in place so it doesn't bounce around as weight goes onto and off the car.

 

All the pieces came off pretty easily (because most have been removed before).  Lots of photos and zip lock bags.  Nothing broke.  No extra parts.  Yet.  The cylinders look like .030 will clean them up, there was a pretty good ridge on top.  Lots of carbon in the oil pan area.  2 exhaust valve were burned as expected, the timing chain was worn and loose, the valve guides are junk.  The 56 lifters on the 55 cam didn't look too back for 15,000 miles on them, the new rocker arms and shafts looked good.  The cam also didn't look too worn.  The oil pressure relief spring was all mucked up with waxy crap as was the oil pump.  The crankshaft is in "remarkable" condition.

 

Its going to stay stock.  I'll put some 56 parts on it, maybe get a 56 or similar cam profile, 1.6 ratio rockers from a 401, coax a little extra out of it.  Ditch my exhaust for one that fits and flows.  When we pulled the heads off we came to find out that the head gaskets were the high compression ones, not low compression as advertised back in 85, they were Fel Pros, and apparently there were 2 oil leaks, one by the center of intake manifold, and one in the back corner.

 

My daughter is really excited (she's 24) because she wants the car "as soon as I'm done with it".  She will be the 4th generation of owners, and my intention is for this baby to go another 110,000 miles.  After it gets done with me charging all over the country of course.  I was debating cleaning up and painting the firewall but all the original inspection marks with with grease pens are still on there and they look neat.  Maybe I can blend it somehow.

 

So a couple questions - wheres the snap ring on the back of the camshaft?  Don't mean to sound stupid, but from the manual it should be obvious. How possible is it to NOT have one for those who have opened up their engine for the first time?  Also considering milling .015-.020 off the heads and using the low compression gaskets (.040 instead of the .015HC gaskets) to get the compression back as my rebuilder said they would seal better and he was more comfortable using those.  Anyone have experience with this procedure on 322 heads?

 

He needed no convincing to use the old school rope seal for the rear main and frowns on adding hardened seats for these particular heads. I've got all the parts that should be needed itemized out and am narrowing down suppliers beyond the typical NAPA, Summit and RockAuto.  Am trying to avoid generic "white box" parts where practical.  Plan on using Egge for pistons.  Any members supplier experience appreciated.

 

Will keep updated

 

 

Edited May 3, 2016 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[old-tank]

Leave the heads alone and use the high compression gaskets...spray with Copper-Coat.

Never seen the snap ring on a 322.  See page 44 of the service manual for details on camshaft end play control.

If your rebuilder has a machine shop he should be able to source some parts too.  Most replacement cams are 401 profile with the journals machined for a 322.  Balance the rotating assembly or at least match balance the pistons (Egge pistons will give good service, but are way out of balance out of the box).  More to come later....

Willie

 

[MrEarl]

What's copper coat and what does it do?

[smithbrother]

Copper coat is a copper colored sticky compound, if I remember correct. 

 

When heated from the compression it forms a good seal, am I right Old-tank?

 

I believe I bought in spray can too.

 

Dale in Indy

[old-tank]

2 hours ago, MrEarl said:

What's copper coat and what does it do?

http://www.amazon.com/CRC-401612-Copper-Gasket-Compound/dp/B000M8NZ8E

Liquid also...

[avgwarhawk]

Following!

[KAD36]

Am on it Willie, thanks for the link.

 

Rebuilder firm on his choice for providing cam, main, and rod bearings and valve springs as he will only use US sourced parts for these - says he may either still have on his shelf or knows someone who knows someone to get it from.  Followed Muds thread on piston volume and intend to use Egge pistons.  Rotating assembly will be balanced with flywheel and damper.

 

Engine mounts are pretty dry rotted but sound and I'd like to replace.  CARS has a good price but my transmission mounts I purchased from them a number of years ago had less rubber on them than the originals.  They are on there now and work, just needed a lot of reshimming.  Anyone tried them for engine mounts?  How about leads on a good timing chain supplier, camshaft suppliers who will do a Buick grind (not a generic SBC grind) that folks have been happy with?  I have a good working distributor from a 57 for cam gear compatibility.  Rocker arm supplier for early 60s nailhead - what re-pros are working well? 

 

Should know the specifics for re-boring by this weekend and start ordering parts.

 

 

[MrEarl]

9 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

Following!

 

x2

[John_Mereness]

I would like to find the "best source" for motor and transmission mounts - and no I do not want to do shimming or .....  

[MrEarl]

You've most likely already read but if not... 

http://nailheadbuick.com/nailing-down

[MrEarl]

Pretty sure I bought a set from Terril Machine but it was years ago, no problems

 

Feltz Terrill Jr. 
Terrill Machine
1000 CR 454, 
De Leon, TX 76444
PH 254-893-2610
FAX 254-893-4841
terrillmachine@yahoo.com

[old-tank]

Engine mounts?  Most available will not fit:  the studs that go in the frame holes are too close together; i just grind the inside to fit (don't alter the car!).  Buy by price (don't forget Fusick Automotive Produts).

Previous discussion...see post 31

Timing chain on Ebay now

Rocker arms...have a set of stock ones on my 55 with no detectable wear after 80k miles.  They do put out a shower of oil unlike the originals, so valve guides seals must be used, which will require machining of the guides.

Willie

[KAD36]

Timing chain = Done and in mail now. Was one from 65! Thats worth some cold ones in Allentown - thank you sir. 

 

Will check the timing gears for wear on Friday when I get back to the shop.  We will mic out the block and crank and measure valve spring rates and see what we have. Although I budgeted for all new springs am curious what these are running. Will also be photographing all the oil and water galley plugs in the block and head before pulling them to avoid missing any on reassemble. My rocker shafts look good with negligible wear - these were also replaced at same time as the rockers, and 56 lifter and pushrod swap 15K miles ago.  Will cut out the spot welds on the valley cover this weekend and have a look at the breather element.  That should be interesting.

 

Since I've got 56 single manifolds will see if I can find someone to make a 56 compatible system that fits my 55 and is fabricated to my liking.  About the only thing useful on mine is the muffler.  My hunch is the pipe bend specs are the same between 55 and 56?  Thoughts? 

 

Am getting my itemized engine parts list together with part numbers, manufacturers, distributors and prices pending measurements.

 

Mr Earl - thank you for the reference and contact information - by a "set" were you referring to engine mounts or rocker arms?  Yes - have Russes site - am starting to research potential camshaft suppliers and schooling up on the basics to avoid getting too dazzled.  Will probably give Russ and Carmen Faso a call this week.

 

Edited May 5, 2016 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

I was talking about motor mounts. Just finished sending 3 emails of pictures of the heads.

[KAD36]

Got them - thank you.

 

Can anyone confirm rubber front crank seal National #450446 will fit a 322 timing chain cover?  Web search shows opinions vary.

Edited May 5, 2016 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[old-tank]

Federal Mogul 474272 or CR-19786.  Or BBB timing cover seal.

The seal is a 0.020" interference fit.  The timing cover will need to be chamfered and professional tools used to install ( a BFH will ruin it)

[KAD36]

Roger that, BFH is no go.  Will show it to the machinist. Thank you sir.

 

 

 

[KAD36]

Crusty pistons, empty block.  Lucked out - the machinist says all the valves are still good and can be reused.  Engine may have to go .040.

 

 

Has anyone ever tried using timing set from a 401 on a 322, knowing that the timing marks line up differently?  Both gears and chain  are the same.  Thinking would just compare it to how the 322 set lines up the crank and cam, but thought I'd ask.

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

Any estimate on how long the machine shop will need to do the work required?

 

[Bill Stoneberg]

"Machinist says all the valves can be reused"

 

Are you sure you want to take a chance on that versus spending 200 bucks on a new set ?  

'I am speaking from the point of view of someone who did that and then spent another 5 K to rebuild the engine when a 65 year old valve broke and dropped the valve into the rotating assembly.

 

Just saying as it was an expensive  200 bucks to save.

[KAD36]

Thats a fair point.  It was looked at it from the perspective of wear on stems and base.

Estimate is 2-3 weeks on the machine shop - will probably be waiting for parts most of the time.  Might be too close to call for Allentown.

[old-tank]

Before you edited your post  you inquired about a 401 cam.  Not a  401 profile but many (see attached) and if you buy one, good luck on the seller supplying specs.  Some references suggest that the stock 322 cam is the "wildest":  http://www.buicks.net/shop/reference/blown_buick.html   Don't go overboard or you will create a slug like I did.  The cam I used had a profile similar to the attachment except the intake and exhaust lift was 0.454 inches, which is higher than stock 401's (stock 322 lift is around 0.350 at the valve with the stock rockers.)  Anyhow the  cam I used raised the hp and torque curves up a few hundred rpm and with stock rear gears and dynaflow it was like driving uphill until over 50 mph where it started pulling hard to 100+ mph.

 

For your reference:

 valve stem height:

1.525 to 1.550 measured (in inches) from valve cover rail to valve stem tip.

valve stem clearance in guide:
0.0025 inlet
0.0030 exhaust

You usually don't need valve spring shims unless the seats have receded making spring height higher.  If shims are used be sure that shims for the outer valve springs don't cover the recess for the inner valve springs.

 

Nailhead Cam Specs.PDF

[KAD36]

Yeah - you caught that huh... I ended up answered my own question on the cam after I typed it so traded it for the timing gear question    I also have it posted on V8 Buick so will see what happens.

 

Relayed the stem height information.  I sort of get it.  The machinist definitely does.  I'll watch when he measures it.  We finished the parts list and will start ordering tomorrow.  Block is in the queue scheduled to get worked this Friday.

 

 

[KAD36]

Update - engine came in needing pistons at .040 over, rod and main bearings will be .010 under.  Now the waiting on ordered parts begins and the inspection of what shows up in the mail.

[JohnD1956]

My 56 will never be able to keep up with you now! 

[KAD36]

Your 56 might almost have had to tow me to Allentown JD - I was ready to go in the backyard and get 8 varmints to put in the cylinders.   My piston supplier called back to apologize and say they did did not have a full set of 40 over pistons for the car they could grind - they only had a set mixed from 2 suppliers that had a 26 gram spread between them which was my choice to accept as it exceeded their QC standards.  They had 10 and 20 over they could grind but the block is already cut to 40. I called my machinist and mentor and he agreed that was too much to make up, so I inquired about 56 pistons in my size and if they might fit, The measurements the supplier gave me from the center of the piston pin to the top of the dome for their pistons were 2.187 for a 55 322, 2.0XX for a 56 322 in a Special, and 2.305 for a 56 322 in all other series.  The 2.187 (approx 2 3/16) pin to top of dome matches the stock piston measurement from the engine.  After some hunting we ordered a set from from Rebuilders Choice (they sell to jobbers and their warehouse supplies to Kanter for retail) - the shop manager there told me his 55 pistons had the same dimension and he holds them to under 5 grams (2 grams preferred).  When it gets here will measure all 8 compared to the stock piston and confirm. 

 

As of this point all parts for the rebuild have been itemized, suppliers chosen, ordered and on their way.  We'll inspect them as they come in.  The block is bored, new cam bearings ready for install and waiting on the cam.  When the pistons show up the rotating assembly with damper and flywheel goes for balancing. The heads are waiting on new exhaust valves and springs to arrive then we can get started on those.  I have a call into Carmen Faso (J&C parts in Towanda) about some rocker arms.  Martin Johnson (thanks for the lead Bhigdog and Old Tank) of MJ Exhaust is working with me on a better exhaust system so I can Deep 6 the rainpipe bent around the oak tree system that is currently demoralizing the car.

 

Am interested to see what the new camshaft lobe heights look like compared to the 55 cam - it is supposed to be a 56 stock grind, and at the time the seller was going off memory on the specs so the numbers are not firm. 209 duration at .050 is about all I have.  If anyone has 56 322 stock cam specs compared to a 55 that would be interesting.

 

If there is one thing I have learned in this adventure so far, it is that every parts supplier has an opinion when quizzed hard on the details and rarely do two opinions agree.  Let common sense prevail and use the information and advice of those who have done this before to help make good decisions that you're comfortable with.

 

There was a post somewhere on one of the boards where folks were interested in Buick piston markings and noted one of their pistons wasn't marked Buick.  Heres an example pic of factory stock pistons that all have a Buick marking on one side and some have different markings on the other:

 

 

 

[old-tank]

PISTON experience from the past!

I checked a replacement piston from Egge (55) and one from Sealed Power (56) and they match your measurements and the dome surface area is about the same.  However if you hang both pistons on the same wrist pin and compare the flat area outside the dome the Egge piston is 0.050 inches lower.  Looking at your original pistons the top ring groove on both is a little lower which is not a bad thing since I have seen original pistons with the area above the top ring broken.

If the pistons are not correct be sure to follow the advice in the video and apologize the the expert for being so freakin' stupid :D.

Willie

[KAD36]

Pictures of the new vs stock piston.  Height from center of wrist pin top of dome are within .005 of factory, The base of the new piston is about .010 lower than factory.  They are within 5g of each other.  After some math using factory specs and measurements on the std piston, on-line calculators and a tip from Mudbone yielded some sample calculations that showed the comparative volume of the new piston dome is about 5.247cc less than stock, which reduces compression (approx every 1cc reduced .1).  The .040 overbore offsets this by adding compression (+0.17).  Net of all this is the factory 9:1 compression would be reduced to 8.67:1. Using on line calculators, a quick sensitivity analysis could be done on parameters that could be controlled, namely the gasket thickness parameter through slight milling of the cylinder heads.  We were going to take about .010 off the heads to clean them up anyway; taking off .020 will get back another 0.4 in the compression ratio so we should be close to 9:1.  In actuality it will be less as certainly there is some valve recession which would increase head volume, and am assuming the fact that the top compression ring sitting slightly lower on the new piston vs stock adds negligible volume to the math.

 

Note also - one could just leave well enough alone.  "As is" will work.  Jumping from 8.5 to 9:1 only offers a 1.7% increase in efficiency (power), or about 4 hp assuming 230 hp base.  Jumping from 8.5 to 9.5:1 gets 3.3% increase in efficiency, or about 7.8 hp. (ref Otto cycle graph)

 

In any event, it was an interesting KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) analysis to help understand how parameters affect the compression ratio based on variation of an aftermarket piston compared to stock and what could be practically changed to offset it.

 

The camshaft is another story.  May punt on that one and just take what I have.  All other parts are in and look good so far.  Need to measure the valve springs.  Crankshaft is turned, rods cleaned up, going for balance this week.  Should be assembling next week.  Then the fun really starts.

 

 

[JohnD1956]

Did your calculations take into account that dimple in the center of your old piston? 

 

just bustin on ya.  Wait till the week after Memorial Day to re install the engine, if you still need some help. 

[KAD36]

Dang it. Now I gotta start all over again.

 

Thinking install second-third week in June barring any setbacks.  The Killians will be cold and waiting. 

 

I'll build a blast shield for you guys to hang out behind in case she lets loose.

 

BTW - getting a reminder of what a PITA it is to scrape gaskets.

[MrEarl]

Still looking into your question you had asked earlier about gaining compression by shaving heads. Here is some interesting info

 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/277718-buick-hi-power-equipment-1956/

 

[KAD36]

Thanks for the post Lamar - interesting reading.  The hp gains moving from 9.5 to 10:1 match expectations.

 

So....having already shaved .020 off the heads prior to reading the factory guideline my machinist picks up a pile of filings and says "we can mix this up with some JB Weld and getchya that 20 thousands back".   His recollection and a Buick expert in the Buffalo NY area, recalled taking less than .050 hadn't caused issues, close to .050 and he had trouble getting the water manifold bolts to line back up.  Maybe this was a way for the factory to ensure that they sold heads and pistons, and since the valvetrain wasn't adjustable from the factory, it ensured that people didn't take too much off the heads and push the lifters out of their working range or otherwise throw off the valvetrain geometry.  If we assemble it and have issues will just default to the low compression gaskets, but I think we will be ok.

 

Interesting also to note from the article, the suggestion that 56 pistons would work with 54-56 heads with higher compression in the 54-55 heads.  Egge had a unique 56 piston part number and told me the dome on their 56 piston was almost 1/8 inch higher than their 55.  It probably would have fit, and we shyed away from it for fear of interference and my engine has the old style clamp rods for the wrist pins.

 

Progress update and lessons learned:

 

1)  Write these numbers in your shop manual from Willies post and make these measurements.  They are important unless you have adjustable pushrods or rocker arms and hard to find elsewhere

 

valve stem height:

 

1.525 to 1.550 measured (in inches) from valve cover rail (base on where valve cover sits on head) to valve stem tip.

 

valve stem clearance in guide:

0.0025 inlet

0.0030 exhaust

 

Check all the valve stem heights.  Having been the second time these heads were worked, we had 4 of them that were out of spec due to varying seat depths and the fact that the intake valves were reused.  Swapping shortest to longest positions fixed 2 of the valves, milling a little off the stem of one, and the seat of the other fixed the other 2.  All now meet spec.  This measurement is important as it will affect lifter preload, valve spring installed height, and rocker arm position on the stem. (unless you provide for adjustment somewhere)

 

Attached picture of measurement method to base of head:

 

 

2) Sealed power makes new valve springs, both inner and outer VS527 and VS612.  The free height is higher than the stock springs, and calculating the spring depression shows they will work with both a 1.5 and 1.6 rocker ratio at 1.5 inches installed height with both a stock 322 and 401 camshaft lift with no bind.  If you check this remember to account for the recess  of .100 for the inner valve spring.  Will post the 322 and 401 cam specs shortly.

 

3) Perfect Circle lifters PN 213-1646s appear to have a working range of about .130.  This was measured after .010 of preload on the lifter and observing how far the plunger travelled until it just began to interfere (but not cover) the oil feed hole.  Wanted to know this in case anything was off in the valvetrain to see if the lifter could make it up without adjustable push rods.  Anyone else ever measure this and if so how?

 

4) 401 cam and sprocket gears can’t be made to fit a 322 (had a Melling 401 set available).  The Cam gear has an offset compared to the 322 that can’t be milled down.  Thought we could time it like a 401 and line the dots up vertical but no go.

Should have a balanced assembly back end of this week.  More to follow.

Edited June 18, 2016 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[KAD36]

Here is what some research yielded on cam specs for the 55/56 322 and the 401 and what I used to figure if the vs527 and vs612 springs would work.  When the cam is back will try again to measure it or dial it in.  Please feel free to correct any discrepancies:

• 401 cam lobe lift is .269 I&E at the lobe, gives .430 lift I&E at valve with 1.6 rockers, 209 deg @.050 lift duration, 114 deg lobe separation
• 56 322 stock cam (1957 Motors 1 & internet2 ): .378 lift I&E at valve with 1.5 rockers1, 210 deg @ .050 lift duration, 111 deg lobe separation
• 55 322 stock cam (1955 Product School): 378 lift Intake at valve, 378 lift exhaust at valve. Duration & LS unknown, expect duration approx 2 deg less than 56.
• For comparison, a 364 had 423 lift at the valve.

We almost put a 401 cam in it (can get from NAPA for a good price) but didn't want to throw too many changes in at once.  The cost was less on the initial purchase and were probably looking at about $100 to turn the all journals down to fit the 322.

Here are some interesting cam specs, scroll down about halfway and note this supplier specs their 322 and 364-425 CIDs all with the same cam profile, similar to Schneiders web page:

 

http://www.camcraftcams.com/index.php?page=antique-cams

The 56 stock cam may not breath as well as the above profile during high rpm but the tighter duration should help keep the power band in the lower end of the operating range - the off idle torque is what I wanted to keep and improve on.  It is doubtful this engine will ever see 5000 rpm unless am trying to get a 2 mile head start on JDs 400 GS

Valve lift using the 56 cam goes from .378 to .4032 using the 1.6 ratio rockers with .057-.067 of spring travel left before the spring bottoms out.

 

Edited June 18, 2016 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

3 hours ago, KAD36 said:

It is doubtful this engine will ever see 5000 rpm unless am trying to get a 2 mile head start on JDs 400 GS

LOL... 

[EmTee]

Ken, just curious as to why (or what) led you to take on the engine rebuild at this time.  Was it poor performance, oil consumption, funny noises, or did you just figure 60 years was 'long enough'...

[KAD36]

Hey Tim - good to hear from you.

 

The compression was getting progressively low (below 125 vs 155-170 psi specification), the vacuum was about 16 in but shaky (indicating bad valve guides), the blowby was starting to agitate me and getting my recently cleaned engine compartment and paint job messed up, and last fall I noticed what seemed like a miss starting at idle that ignition debug and carb tuing would not fix, although the tach indicated a steady idle at 500 rpm.  Found 2 cylinders that were only pumping about 30-60 psi on a compression test, and a leak down test showed same two cylinders leaking into the exhaust system.  I considered a re-ring and fix the 2 valves but figured do it right and learn new things.  Then I could brag and tell lies over a beer about it later 

 

Really like that new Riviera you picked up.  Its a beauty.  Hope to get up to Syracuse for a ride.

 

Edited June 11, 2016 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Yup, sounds like it was time...  My son just bought me a nice compression gauge for my birthday (don't know how I managed to make it this long without one).  So, I'm going to take baseline measurements on my cars so that I can detect similar degradation down the road.  Great thread -- I really appreciate it when people take the time to document work like this.  I am clueless when it comes to nailheads, so it's great to see the 'guts' of one of these classic mills.

[KAD36]

I'm a novice myself and the folks on this board are a huge confidence builder and can help with hard parts if needed.  Mudbone has a set of videos documenting rebuilding his 322 on Youtube under dyna55 that are super informative.  If you ever decide to get into one and are curious on suppliers am happy to share what we used.  Carmen Faso at J&C Auto is a very down to Earth Buick "expert supplier resource" that helped us out with parts and advice.  Gave us a call at the machine shop at 9:00 at night to help us verify the part number on the rocker stands for the 401 were the same as the 322 while we were making valvetrain measurements.  Great guy - pays attention to details.

 

Below are the 1.6 ratio 401 rocker assemblies - all GM parts - from J&C.  They are unsleeved and pristine.  I may buy an extra set for the living room.

 

 

 

Set of perfect circle lifters waiting for the new camshaft.  These are 56 lifters matched with 56 pushrods.  Found 2 of these sets a few years ago.

 

 

Another note - Marty from M&J exhaust sent measurements and drawings of the difference between 55 and 56 exhaust systems - the 56 is about an inch shorter in overall length but expect that is made up by the difference in manifolds between the two years.  Can post if anyone is interested.

 

Ed called last night and the balancing the rotating assembly with the flywheel and harmonic balancer is complete.  Need to retrieve the block with the camshaft fit into the bearings.  Looking forward to assembly starting next week.  Then we shall see....

 

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Seems a shame to cover that beautiful valve train! 

[KAD36]

Anyone ever dial in a cam?  What did you use in place of the hydraulic lifter (i.e. equivalent solid lifter) or how did you prevent the lifter from bleeding down to take the measurement?  I was thinking of taking an old lifter, removing the plunger and spring and replacing the spring with a spacer that was sized to allow the .010 preload on the cam base circle then hold the lifter height to make the valve lift measurements, assuming that in normal operation the lifter "holds" its length at preload level. Another possibility might be to eliminate the lifter altogether and use an extension on the dial indicator direct to the lobe ensuring it is perpendicular to the camshaft then multiply by the rocker ratio to get the valve lift. 

 

While the cam might be "close enough" off the shelf, would like to try this out (even if its a bad result.)

 

thanks