edhd58

1942 Ford Fordor Revival

Recommended Posts

Well, its official the oil pump came apart. As you can see from the picture I was able to get the front cover off the engine to expose the crank,camshaft and oil pump drive gears. The oil pump drive gear shaft should be snug in its housing, its not, it is loose and you can rattle the gear around a little. you can move the gear forward and backward and just in general rattle it all over the place. Next step is to find out if I have to pull the motor or if I can just raise the engine and drop the oil pan. I am tempted to just go ahead and pull the engine so I can have ample room to work with what ever I get in to repairing the oil pump.

post-90054-143143009413_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lucky you didn't ruin the engine. Did someone else assemble it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bleach, yes the machine shop that did all the rebuild work assembled all moving parts. All I had to do when I got it home was install the head, cam gear, oil pan and other outside the engine parts. The oil pump was rebuilt and installed by the machine shop, and yes I'll be calling them. I dont think anything has been hurt, the engine never got over 100 to 110 degrees and except for the day it was idling while i was washing it, the engine hasnt ran more than 15 to 20 seconds at a time while i saw if what i was doing solved the oil pressure problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I've made progress. Today I painted the body, doors, hood and deck lid. All in all I'm happy with it. there is some dust in the paint, but that's my fault, I had two people look at it that knows paint, they say when I color sand it everything should be fine. If not I have more than enough paint to do another coat, making sure to not do what I did do this time, not tack cloth it before painting. Yes I had the tack cloth, even had it handy and made sure I had it before I masked everything, I just got ahead of myself and forgot to do it. post-132271-0-93840900-1433722413_thumb.post-132271-0-83081200-1433722436_thumb.

 It's actually a medium dark blue, which turns out to be a mid 50s Hudson color, Boatswain Blue. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BillP

Thanks for saving this great old Ford. A lot people would walk right by, or clip it, or put in a 350, or in some other way abuse it. I'm glad you are fixing it up. It will be rare and an example of the old days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to see some new progress on your car Ed. I had lost all my subscriptions after the software change so now I can keep following it again.

Any solution with your oil pump problem?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bleach, the solution to the oil pump was to have the inner gears machined to the same height, then have the body machined to a end gap of 5 to 8 thousand. All in all after that I feel like the 5w30 I  had in it was too thin for the worn pump to pick up. anyway, 40 to 45 psi idling now at 190 degree water temp.

I started color sanding it last night, it looked good until the sanding showed me just how uneven good looking paint is. I have a feeling I am going to be very happy after all the sanding is done and its all polished up.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a little worried about your oil pressure. It seems a bit high at a warmed up idle. I don't have the specs on your oil pressure handy though. You might want to look into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bleach,

about the oil pressure. According to the local "tractor" guy that know a lot about this type oil pump, I am going to be running "probably a little higher than Henry had it when it was new" because my clearances are "probably" tighter than new. I have several hours on the motor now, its still around 40 at first start, then drops to about 30 to 35 when hot with 20W50 oil in it. The only way I can find straight 30W (Ford recommended), is by the quart and its about 5$ quart, I was told not to put anything less than 20W in it, . Revved it makes about 60 pounds of pressure. I think I am going to get a tach in the near future, just for kicks and giggles. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tach sounds like a great idea. It looks like the pressures are fine since it's still tight. It ought to be fine once it's broken in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well fellows, I have bad news. I am not satisfied with the way the paint looks.  A wind storm came up as I was painting and because it was a garage job, more dust than I care to put up with got into the paint. I have color sanded several times to try to make it look right, but I just am not willing to let it be. I do have to say, first paint job I ever have done, and when hand sanding it (first time ever) with paint on I used too coarse a grit paper, and used my hand as the backer-- BIG MISTAKE. I have now DA scuffed it all back down (except the roof) and will in the next day or so spray it again. This time only one door will be open, it will only be open enough to let a fan blow some of the fumes out. Also, i just can not come to like the grey fenders so it will all go blue. I am going to have to buy more paint, but that is little sacrifice compared to spraying it a color scheme I just do not like.

 

I will post this in the Technical section also, but I need help with the seat springs, each spring has a burlap sock over it, do I need to redo EACH sock and recover EACH spring?

 

Also -- what is the best and quickest way to get all of these old socks off each spring -- i know the best and quickest may not be the same method, but I do not need to be told to light then on fire, I know better than do it that way. 

 

Thanks for all your support

 

post-132271-0-40826800-1435720784_thumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice car, by the way. You would definitely not be happy two-toning it, especially with lighter colored fenders. It was never meant to be two-toned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice car, by the way. You would definitely not be happy two-toning it, especially with lighter colored fenders. It was never meant to be two-toned.

I agree with West. Tu-toning it would have it look like a cop car and you'd look like a jazz era Blues Brother. You have extra paint, park it in the sun for a few days, then wet sand with a finer grit and re-spray. It looks great from the pix and will look even better close up. That inline six will be very refreshing to see at a car show, especially when most folks would expect to see a V8, or much worse, an SBC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay folks here are the latest re-paint pics. The fenders are just a hair lighter than the body so as soon as i get more paint (Monday) i will put a couple more coats one them. The body has 6 coats and the fenders have 3 ( i ran out of paint, because of the repaint from color sanding it with too coarse a grit paper. I will be getting all the other pieces ready for paint this week and hope to spray them next week. Hopefully by then I will have the fender welting and get the body all bolted back together permanently. I'm very happy with the way it turned out this time. 

post-132271-0-56367600-1436726666_thumb.

post-132271-0-29466500-1436726694_thumb.

post-132271-0-16751900-1436726712_thumb.

post-132271-0-47944100-1436726729_thumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bleach,

about the oil pressure. According to the local "tractor" guy that know a lot about this type oil pump, I am going to be running "probably a little higher than Henry had it when it was new" because my clearances are "probably" tighter than new. I have several hours on the motor now, its still around 40 at first start, then drops to about 30 to 35 when hot with 20W50 oil in it. The only way I can find straight 30W (Ford recommended), is by the quart and its about 5$ quart, I was told not to put anything less than 20W in it, . Revved it makes about 60 pounds of pressure. I think I am going to get a tach in the near future, just for kicks and giggles.

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! Your engine is telling you that the 20W/50 oil is way too heavy in a tight newly rebuilt engine. YOU ARE DAMAGING IT ! The definitive article on engine oil selection is a very popular work by Richard Widman. Title : "Selection of the Right Motor oil for Flat Tappet Engines" , a 33 page masterpiece. He is a genius lubricant rep who has written a laymans guide which has been distilled from API and SAE tech papers. On page 5 , you will see that you are operating out of the protection envelope , and should be running a much thinner conventional oil for break in. Perhaps 5000 miles on , start using a REAL lubricant (synthetic) , also much thinner than 20W/50. I successfully use 20W/50 synthetic in my 1924 Cadillac , a bit tired at 62,000 miles , wide , but still within clearance specs. It has been fitted with a full flow filter in order to tolerate the detergency of synthetic. 20W/50 seems a bit thick for my "new" (to me) 1927 Cadillac , tighter and with perhaps 1/2 the miles of the '24. I will adjust , watching my oil pressure and referring to Widman. Now , I am very old and computer challenged , so I will vector you to a link to Widman's great MUST READ as follows : go to his thread on this forum , last posting June 26 , 2014 "Progress on my Renault Ondine in Bolivia". Various opportunities to link to the PDF abound. TIME WILL BE WELL SPENT STUDYING SERIOUSLY BY ANYONE WHO OILS AN ENGINE. Enjoy the informative read. - Carl

P.S. : For anyone who still disputes the real economy of synthetics , consider that all engines have hotspots, and someday you may have an emergency engine event which synthetics high flashpoint and shear strength will save your engine. Synthetic grease is a good idea too.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read his paper and did the Fahrenheit to Celsius conversion. According to his writing the oil recommended by FoMoCo for the car (30W) is incompatible in that its optimum operating range is 201 -222 degree Fahrenheit. The car will never be in that range unless its running hot. It was an interesting read though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read his paper and did the Fahrenheit to Celsius conversion. According to his writing the oil recommended by FoMoCo for the car (30W) is incompatible in that its optimum operating range is 201 -222 degree Fahrenheit. The car will never be in that range unless its running hot. It was an interesting read though.

That would be my interpretation as well. Oil recommendations over 70 years ago could not possibly anticipate high quality 21st Century multi-grade oils. Do you think that 10W/30 for wear-in , and 10W/40 synthetic thereafter would be a good idea ? Lots of guys use 10W/40. I am so old and addled that I re-read Widman from time to time , re-learning what I forgot. I am very impressed with his info , and it cleared up a number of mis-conceptions I had. - Carl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another fact to take into consideration is the pump configuration. This pump is hung above the oil not submerged in the oil. It has to have a heavier film clinging to the gears after shut down to make a seal to make the pump provide suction. Earlier in this blog the oil pump failed causing me to pull the engine and have a local machine shop machine unavailable parts to rebuild the pump. What was discovered after many hours of searching and $$$ having parts machined was --- this pump has to run thicker oil because of its design. When the pump failed -- actually all it did was failed to pick up the oil because the 5w30 oil I was using then was to thin to provide a good seal after shutdown.

 

Even after rebuild the pump would not pick up 5W30 or water or any liquid, I had the pump out of the engine trying to make it work.

 

While researching what could possibly be wrong at that point is when I was directed to the local tractor guy, because as one old timer noted "Hell, looks like an old Ford tractor pump to me". Turns out it is an old Ford tractor pump, this design is used in the 9N and 2N Ford tractor. This is when I found the part I was unable to purchase for the "car" was in stock at the local Ford tractor shop - as a 9N tractor part. This old timer told me he had rebuilt many many of the pumps and told me to never run anything less than 20w oil in it because of its design -- thus the 20w50 in it now. After I get several more hours on the engine I will buy the 30W oil and run it.

 

As you can tell from the recent posts oil pressure is no longer a problem. 

 

 

trying to make the pump, fresh from rebuild, pick up liquid. It has to be spun extremely fast to make it work because thin liquid does not provide any seal in the pump. 

post-132271-0-39081400-1436764225_thumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have an update, well kinda. This thing has taken so many turns for the worst. The paint when all was said and done, turned out to be 2 completely different shades of Blue. Good new there is that the paint supplier replaced the paint and chemicals I had purchased, a 1/2 gallon of color + stuff. I went ahead and had a full gallon of color made up so I can guarantee the whole thing, assembled, will be painted at the same time so it will all be the same color.

 

My stepson works for a NIssan dealership and talked to the collision center boss and he agreed to paint it since there will be no body work done. That WAS supposed to happen this next week.

 

NOW, more bad news, I drove it a little way down the road to a friends house, just cause it was a really nice day, I had JUST gotten the generator converted to 12 volts and it was charging correctly and wanted to drive it at speed a little. As I was leaving his house to return home I attempted to take off when something POPPED loud in the rear end, 2nd time for this. Turns out, again, I have broken pinion and ring gear teeth. The rear in it now is a used I got a couple years ago, because the original had the same issue. 

 

Now, kinda sorta good news, I never got rid of the original rear end, I am going to tear it down and see about having it rebuilt. If I have to much trouble finding someone I may attempt it myself. It doesn't look too hard and I do have access to a press with ability to make a specialty tool or two if I need to. I told my wife you never get rid of anything till the project is done. 

 

 

post-132271-0-31648500-1448736641_thumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to know you're still at it but sorry to hear about your setbacks. At least after you rebuild the rear diff, you'll thoroughly know its condition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Bleach. Yeah, I bought a used one last time, and I just don't know if it was weak or what. Like you say I know after this it should be bullet proof. I just ordered everything, just over $600 of stuff. Gear set from Speedway, on sale and saved $50, everything else was in a kit from Mac's. I stepped up to a higher 3.55 gearing, I figure this will make it a little more cruise friendly. Plus as torquey (is that a word) as this engine is I think it will be fine even on the lower end. It had 3.78 gears so its not a huge jump I don't think. Crap, as I am writing this I realize I need to order the E-brake cable and misc stuff that goes with that. Oh well it's not like I didn't need other stuff too, I better go order that stuff while I am thinking about it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a note.... my 1930 Dodge 8 did that to me one day. Well, one of the crown wheel bolts broke its head off and dropped it to the bottom. Luckily it did not go through the driven side. It punched a hole in the bottom of the cover and the oil ran out. The cover had been repaired from a previous episode of this. Every crown wheel bolt was not even finger tight and all the locking tabs were up where they should be. What the...?

 

I put mine back with Unbrako cap screws (high strength) wired in pairs, torqued to something I can't remember.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...