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1942 Ford Fordor Revival


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Good to see some new progress on your car Ed. I had lost all my subscriptions after the software change so now I can keep following it again.

Any solution with your oil pump problem?

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Bleach, the solution to the oil pump was to have the inner gears machined to the same height, then have the body machined to a end gap of 5 to 8 thousand. All in all after that I feel like the 5w30 I  had in it was too thin for the worn pump to pick up. anyway, 40 to 45 psi idling now at 190 degree water temp.

I started color sanding it last night, it looked good until the sanding showed me just how uneven good looking paint is. I have a feeling I am going to be very happy after all the sanding is done and its all polished up.

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I'm a little worried about your oil pressure. It seems a bit high at a warmed up idle. I don't have the specs on your oil pressure handy though. You might want to look into it.

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Bleach,

about the oil pressure. According to the local "tractor" guy that know a lot about this type oil pump, I am going to be running "probably a little higher than Henry had it when it was new" because my clearances are "probably" tighter than new. I have several hours on the motor now, its still around 40 at first start, then drops to about 30 to 35 when hot with 20W50 oil in it. The only way I can find straight 30W (Ford recommended), is by the quart and its about 5$ quart, I was told not to put anything less than 20W in it, . Revved it makes about 60 pounds of pressure. I think I am going to get a tach in the near future, just for kicks and giggles. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well fellows, I have bad news. I am not satisfied with the way the paint looks.  A wind storm came up as I was painting and because it was a garage job, more dust than I care to put up with got into the paint. I have color sanded several times to try to make it look right, but I just am not willing to let it be. I do have to say, first paint job I ever have done, and when hand sanding it (first time ever) with paint on I used too coarse a grit paper, and used my hand as the backer-- BIG MISTAKE. I have now DA scuffed it all back down (except the roof) and will in the next day or so spray it again. This time only one door will be open, it will only be open enough to let a fan blow some of the fumes out. Also, i just can not come to like the grey fenders so it will all go blue. I am going to have to buy more paint, but that is little sacrifice compared to spraying it a color scheme I just do not like.

 

I will post this in the Technical section also, but I need help with the seat springs, each spring has a burlap sock over it, do I need to redo EACH sock and recover EACH spring?

 

Also -- what is the best and quickest way to get all of these old socks off each spring -- i know the best and quickest may not be the same method, but I do not need to be told to light then on fire, I know better than do it that way. 

 

Thanks for all your support

 

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Nice car, by the way. You would definitely not be happy two-toning it, especially with lighter colored fenders. It was never meant to be two-toned.

I agree with West. Tu-toning it would have it look like a cop car and you'd look like a jazz era Blues Brother. You have extra paint, park it in the sun for a few days, then wet sand with a finer grit and re-spray. It looks great from the pix and will look even better close up. That inline six will be very refreshing to see at a car show, especially when most folks would expect to see a V8, or much worse, an SBC.
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  • 2 weeks later...

Okay folks here are the latest re-paint pics. The fenders are just a hair lighter than the body so as soon as i get more paint (Monday) i will put a couple more coats one them. The body has 6 coats and the fenders have 3 ( i ran out of paint, because of the repaint from color sanding it with too coarse a grit paper. I will be getting all the other pieces ready for paint this week and hope to spray them next week. Hopefully by then I will have the fender welting and get the body all bolted back together permanently. I'm very happy with the way it turned out this time. 

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Bleach,

about the oil pressure. According to the local "tractor" guy that know a lot about this type oil pump, I am going to be running "probably a little higher than Henry had it when it was new" because my clearances are "probably" tighter than new. I have several hours on the motor now, its still around 40 at first start, then drops to about 30 to 35 when hot with 20W50 oil in it. The only way I can find straight 30W (Ford recommended), is by the quart and its about 5$ quart, I was told not to put anything less than 20W in it, . Revved it makes about 60 pounds of pressure. I think I am going to get a tach in the near future, just for kicks and giggles.

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! Your engine is telling you that the 20W/50 oil is way too heavy in a tight newly rebuilt engine. YOU ARE DAMAGING IT ! The definitive article on engine oil selection is a very popular work by Richard Widman. Title : "Selection of the Right Motor oil for Flat Tappet Engines" , a 33 page masterpiece. He is a genius lubricant rep who has written a laymans guide which has been distilled from API and SAE tech papers. On page 5 , you will see that you are operating out of the protection envelope , and should be running a much thinner conventional oil for break in. Perhaps 5000 miles on , start using a REAL lubricant (synthetic) , also much thinner than 20W/50. I successfully use 20W/50 synthetic in my 1924 Cadillac , a bit tired at 62,000 miles , wide , but still within clearance specs. It has been fitted with a full flow filter in order to tolerate the detergency of synthetic. 20W/50 seems a bit thick for my "new" (to me) 1927 Cadillac , tighter and with perhaps 1/2 the miles of the '24. I will adjust , watching my oil pressure and referring to Widman. Now , I am very old and computer challenged , so I will vector you to a link to Widman's great MUST READ as follows : go to his thread on this forum , last posting June 26 , 2014 "Progress on my Renault Ondine in Bolivia". Various opportunities to link to the PDF abound. TIME WILL BE WELL SPENT STUDYING SERIOUSLY BY ANYONE WHO OILS AN ENGINE. Enjoy the informative read. - Carl

P.S. : For anyone who still disputes the real economy of synthetics , consider that all engines have hotspots, and someday you may have an emergency engine event which synthetics high flashpoint and shear strength will save your engine. Synthetic grease is a good idea too.

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Read his paper and did the Fahrenheit to Celsius conversion. According to his writing the oil recommended by FoMoCo for the car (30W) is incompatible in that its optimum operating range is 201 -222 degree Fahrenheit. The car will never be in that range unless its running hot. It was an interesting read though. 

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Read his paper and did the Fahrenheit to Celsius conversion. According to his writing the oil recommended by FoMoCo for the car (30W) is incompatible in that its optimum operating range is 201 -222 degree Fahrenheit. The car will never be in that range unless its running hot. It was an interesting read though.

That would be my interpretation as well. Oil recommendations over 70 years ago could not possibly anticipate high quality 21st Century multi-grade oils. Do you think that 10W/30 for wear-in , and 10W/40 synthetic thereafter would be a good idea ? Lots of guys use 10W/40. I am so old and addled that I re-read Widman from time to time , re-learning what I forgot. I am very impressed with his info , and it cleared up a number of mis-conceptions I had. - Carl

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Another fact to take into consideration is the pump configuration. This pump is hung above the oil not submerged in the oil. It has to have a heavier film clinging to the gears after shut down to make a seal to make the pump provide suction. Earlier in this blog the oil pump failed causing me to pull the engine and have a local machine shop machine unavailable parts to rebuild the pump. What was discovered after many hours of searching and $$$ having parts machined was --- this pump has to run thicker oil because of its design. When the pump failed -- actually all it did was failed to pick up the oil because the 5w30 oil I was using then was to thin to provide a good seal after shutdown.

 

Even after rebuild the pump would not pick up 5W30 or water or any liquid, I had the pump out of the engine trying to make it work.

 

While researching what could possibly be wrong at that point is when I was directed to the local tractor guy, because as one old timer noted "Hell, looks like an old Ford tractor pump to me". Turns out it is an old Ford tractor pump, this design is used in the 9N and 2N Ford tractor. This is when I found the part I was unable to purchase for the "car" was in stock at the local Ford tractor shop - as a 9N tractor part. This old timer told me he had rebuilt many many of the pumps and told me to never run anything less than 20w oil in it because of its design -- thus the 20w50 in it now. After I get several more hours on the engine I will buy the 30W oil and run it.

 

As you can tell from the recent posts oil pressure is no longer a problem. 

 

 

trying to make the pump, fresh from rebuild, pick up liquid. It has to be spun extremely fast to make it work because thin liquid does not provide any seal in the pump. 

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  • 4 months later...

Have an update, well kinda. This thing has taken so many turns for the worst. The paint when all was said and done, turned out to be 2 completely different shades of Blue. Good new there is that the paint supplier replaced the paint and chemicals I had purchased, a 1/2 gallon of color + stuff. I went ahead and had a full gallon of color made up so I can guarantee the whole thing, assembled, will be painted at the same time so it will all be the same color.

 

My stepson works for a NIssan dealership and talked to the collision center boss and he agreed to paint it since there will be no body work done. That WAS supposed to happen this next week.

 

NOW, more bad news, I drove it a little way down the road to a friends house, just cause it was a really nice day, I had JUST gotten the generator converted to 12 volts and it was charging correctly and wanted to drive it at speed a little. As I was leaving his house to return home I attempted to take off when something POPPED loud in the rear end, 2nd time for this. Turns out, again, I have broken pinion and ring gear teeth. The rear in it now is a used I got a couple years ago, because the original had the same issue. 

 

Now, kinda sorta good news, I never got rid of the original rear end, I am going to tear it down and see about having it rebuilt. If I have to much trouble finding someone I may attempt it myself. It doesn't look too hard and I do have access to a press with ability to make a specialty tool or two if I need to. I told my wife you never get rid of anything till the project is done. 

 

 

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Thank you Bleach. Yeah, I bought a used one last time, and I just don't know if it was weak or what. Like you say I know after this it should be bullet proof. I just ordered everything, just over $600 of stuff. Gear set from Speedway, on sale and saved $50, everything else was in a kit from Mac's. I stepped up to a higher 3.55 gearing, I figure this will make it a little more cruise friendly. Plus as torquey (is that a word) as this engine is I think it will be fine even on the lower end. It had 3.78 gears so its not a huge jump I don't think. Crap, as I am writing this I realize I need to order the E-brake cable and misc stuff that goes with that. Oh well it's not like I didn't need other stuff too, I better go order that stuff while I am thinking about it. 

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Just a note.... my 1930 Dodge 8 did that to me one day. Well, one of the crown wheel bolts broke its head off and dropped it to the bottom. Luckily it did not go through the driven side. It punched a hole in the bottom of the cover and the oil ran out. The cover had been repaired from a previous episode of this. Every crown wheel bolt was not even finger tight and all the locking tabs were up where they should be. What the...?

 

I put mine back with Unbrako cap screws (high strength) wired in pairs, torqued to something I can't remember.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Its been a while since I posted anything here. I've been working 55 and 60 hour weeks lately with not much time I felt like doing anything once I got home and ate supper. I will be getting this thing painted as soon as I get the rear end back end and the body shop says its ready, I now have 3 people lined up in case each one says they cant do it now.

 If you may have looked on a couple other forums you may have noticed I tore the teeth off the pinion gear in the rear end. It took two tries but I got the correct gears from Speedway and got all the other parts from Mac's Auto Parts. I also decided to go with 3.54/1 gears in the rear instead of the stock 3.78/1 gears. I have been told this will help a lot on cruising with modern traffic when I have to.

I couldn't find anyone local to overhaul the rear end so I had to do it myself. It really isn't hard, just time consuming with all the put togethers and take aparts.

I decided to leave the wishbone in the car and only swap rear axle assemblies. It took a while but I have the axle assemblies swapped but have yet to get the brake drums on, It seems asbestos brake linings WILL absorb moisture and cause them to swell a little, they were stored in a barn and not wrapped in any way. They are also the brake linings that were on the original axle, and look like at least 50 years old. The are still on the backing plates that were in the car when I took that rear end out because it had bad ring gear teeth.

I am now wondering if this is a weak point in the rear end, two out of two rear ends fail!! BUT i was attempting to bark the tires when I messed up the 2nd rear end. I have new brake shoes and will install them on both side, I also have new drums for the original hubs (under drum hubs) but found I have to get the studs out because they are the "swedged" bolts. I am going to look and see if I can update to new bolts that do NOT require the drums be "swedged" on the hubs. I think swedged is the correct term. Anyway, the bolts have shoulders that have to be swollen and hold the drum in place and takes a special tool to do that and another tool get the drum off the hub. 

 

One picture is the original 42 rear end which has zerk fittings to grease the hub bearings, the others are simply that same assembly disassembled and reassembled. The later rear axle assembly does not have those zerk fittings. That is one reason why i overhauled the earlier rear axle assembly

 

 

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  • 3 months later...

Got it back from the upholsterer Sunday, been working on it almost every waking minute since. I am happy with how it turned out, even if it did take a month longer than expected. getting the dash back together and almost ready to put it in. i have installed an electric wiper motor, but I need new wiper towers the old ones are seized solid. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

OMG !  What a beauty !     I'd say that car is defiantly restored and not merely revived.  And, I still appreciate the uncommon four doors and inline six.  Nice work!  

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  • 2 months later...

Its been a while since I posted and I have made a little progress. i cant load too many pics at once soooo....... a few posts for pics. I did get a new (had the paper hang tags on the knobs - well part of the hang tags anyway) radio front installed. 

 

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Final look 1.jpg

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I also am now street legal, Wifey got the tags Saturday, bless her heart, and today I had her follow me to verify the speedometer. It's off a tad, at 60 on the car her 2013 Tundra is sowing right at 55. and I later took it out and ran it up to 70 and cruised a while at that speed, because the motor sounded fine not straining any. oil pressure HOT (190) is 30 at idle and 50+ revved (I'd guess 2500 RPM). The electric gauge is pegged but the mechanical is showing just over 50 setting in the drive way revving the engine to see the hi and lows. 

The trim rings on the car is the final look. I am going minimalist on the exterior. I'm just a plain kinda guy. The bumpers were tooooo far gone to think about doing anything with, plus I just don't have the extra money at the moment. 

 

Oh yeah, almost forgot , i put in new king pins bushings and both tie rod ends, not the front end is all nice and tight. It aooears the original (maybe) bushings were still in it. Maybe. And I did paint it all black before it got put back together. 

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OEM King pin Bushings.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

it made its first real road trip Saturday.  

Approximately an hour away was the NSRA Street Rod Nationals in Louisville, KY.  

The trip there was uneventful, the trip home was anything but that.

The car has never overheated before, but did after sitting idling in traffic for 30 to 45 minutes (heat of the day leaving). It reached a little over 210 and blew coolant out of the radiator all over the motor. It has the no pressure radiator cap. 

This caused the engine to start misfiring as the distributor was now soaked.

I got it pulled over into a store parking lot and found the fan belt loose and now soaked.

To make a long story short I did finally get it back home under its own power. I now need to find out why the generator moved or why the fan belt loosened. 

I also need to find out why the speedometer is close to right at 55 but way off at 60 mph. It shows 60 mph at 55 but show 75 at 60 mph. 

 

If you notice it has no side mirrors, that is something I decided on the way up has to change. 

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  • 5 months later...

Well, its been a while. A bunch has happened. Some has probably been my own doing. 

 

The trans had a bad growl in first gear, and the clutch has had a bad shudder, and there's the overheat thing which I never addressed yet. I pulled the motor and trans a couple weeks ago and had them torn down to see what i could find. The trans had a rough gear on the cluster gear. That gear alone was nearly 300$ new. I found a used trans close by that had excellent looking gears for $60. I called and talked to Mr VanPelt and had them send the new gaskets and seals and as soon as I can get the front seal out of the input shaft tube. I'll have all new gaskets and seals in the trans. 

 

As for the bad clutch shudder, I guess I never heard it until iI put the car all back together. There were so many noises driving around in just the body shell. I knew the engine rear main had a small leak and i attributed the shudder to oil had gotten on the clutch disc. When I got everything apart everything was discolored and there were what looked like some burnt spots on the pressure plate and flywheel. I also think some of the grease I had put on the throw out bearing may have gottten slung onto the flywheel/pressure plate. I am cleaning off ALL of that grease before it goes back together. In getting everything ready to reassembly I lightly sanded the pressure plate and flywheel. The dark spots came off pretty easily. Under a dark spot on the flywheel and one on the clutch disc is a small gouge. nothing I think to worry about, its that small. I just wonder what could have gotten in there and did that. The colors on the flywheel in the picture is my orange shirt reflection, and the grey at the bottom of the pic is the reflection of the bell housing inside edge

 

I haven't attempted to deal with the overheat issue. I am going to reinstall every thing, and rework how the fan belt tension is controlled and start from there. 

 

There is one pic of the oil pump setup just for those that have never seen the G 226 oil pump. Its part of the front main bearing cap. Exactly like the Ford 2N and 9N tractors, 

 

Anyway, here are a few pics of what I have been up to. Now i am waiting on the clutch disc, and for me to get that front seal swapped to put it all back in. 

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7 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Does the arrow point to a crack in the solder?

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As a matter of fact yes. I did try to pull the thing apart and it won't budge. The more I ponder that the more you make me think I do need to pull it and get it brazed and Then I won't have this nagging doubt in my head as to the quality of oil flow. 

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