trimacar Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 A fellow in the area bought a 1937 Cord phaeton a couple of years ago, supercharged and all. He drove it, it ran great, but as a precaution he thought he'd go through the supercharger and make sure it was in excellent condition. Taking it apart, it was just a shell! No innards at all. Probing further, he also found it had a standard camshaft.Now, on a Cord, this is an expensive problem. He thought he got a bargain on the car when bought, but now it's not quite as sweet a deal as first thought.A buyer is always at risk, unless the vehicle is very well known..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OkieWinds Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) This thread speaks volumes about the value of being a member of a good car club (yes I know that we are on a good car club site but I'm not yet a member of AACA). I found my 1932 Chevy 5 passenger coupe on eBay several years ago. The seller stated that it was restored and that it came from a collection in Nebraska. As a long time member of the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America, I pulled out my membership directory, scanned Nebraska, and found the former owner. He told me that there was nothing wrong with the car and directed me to the VCCA magazine that had featured all 5 of his restored '32s on the cover. He was a bit upset that it was for sale: he had just sold it to the son of a friend hoping it was going to a good home. He was pleased that I would give it a good VCCA home. The car is better than new and run and drives wonderfully. Edited March 18, 2013 by OkieWinds (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Here are the pictures I bought the truck from. It was represented as a restored truck. Technically, the body is fully restored. Would that have not been your assumption that the whole vehicle was restored after seeing these pictures and hearing a representation that it was fully restored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 If you "assumed" anything it's hard to assign blame for whatever was not done to your satisfaction. Beautiful truck though......................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Ah, Resale Red covers a multitude of sins. While the body LOOKS nice, you have no idea what's under that shiny new paint, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthcranbrook Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 It looks perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I'm glad you found those issues and corrected them before anything tragic happened, Barry. Sadly, there are an awful lot of old cars and trucks out there running around on sub-standard craftsmanship just like this and thanks only to good luck people aren't getting hurt. However, I don't know that I would assign to malice what can be explained by simple incompetence. Sure, it's obvious corners were cut, but I'm guessing that most of it was not done with a "screw the next guy, I've got my money" attitude, but rather from a position of ignorance. I bet the kid who turned those brake drums didn't look up a spec, he just took an .040" cut like he does with every other brake drum that comes in, and that the guy before him and the guy before him did it, too. And to expect the broker or inspector to notice things like that rusty, undersized screw (that was probably inside a sleeve, correct?) or that the bolts are merely flush with the castle nuts is perhaps asking a lot. Not that I'm making excuses for the blatantly obvious issues, but speaking from the other side, those are things that could easily go unnoticed by even experienced eyes without spending several hours dissecting what already looks like a very nice truck with quality workmanship everywhere else. It's not reasonable to expect someone who is not the owner to disassemble a car to verify its condition. I had a buyer who was interested in one of our cars but was hung up on whether the engine had insert bearings in it. Well, short of taking it apart, there was just no way to know. He said that if I was going to represent a car, I should know. Well, I suppose in an ideal world I would know that kind of thing, but with any old car, so much is lost to the sands of time and there's just no way to offer guarantees. As West said, assume the worst and hope for the best.I think the bigger lesson here is not only to do your due diligence prior to the sale, but also afterwards as Barry has here. No old car is perfect, nobody can be an expert on every aspect of any old car, and there are always items that will escape the notice of even the most experienced eyes. Basic safety is really the owner's responsibility, regardless of what he's been told by a third party. Being educated about your car's requirements and getting to know your car intimately is the surest way to stay safe on the road.That's a gorgeous little truck, Barry. Once the stink of having to do all this re-work wears off, you'll love it. I suspect you're the kind of guy who believes if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself, and when you're done, you'll have more confidence in this truck than ever before. You'll never worry about that stuff again, and that's a great feeling that will make you forget the headaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) I did the same thing to the '33 Continental Flyer to get it roadworthy. My wife's take is; "You would have gone through the whole truck anyway to make it safe, I don't see the problem."I still marvel at how inexpensive parts are for the pickup truck. I'm able to rebuild the front suspension, fuel pump, carburetor, get fancy water pumps and a proper distributor set up with a new coil that won't open when hot. The radiator has been cleaned and repaired and the engine bay will get all new rubber. I'm rebuilding the brake and master cylinders and installing new brakes and properly protected brake lines all around. I figure I'll have maybe $2,000 in bringing the truck up to snuff. Of course, that doesn't include my labor, but I work cheap. Edited March 18, 2013 by Barry Wolk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 West, your dad is a smart and experienced guy, besides being a nice man. His advice is right on. The part about "no matter how nice the car looks" is important. Cosmetics are not everything, as we can see with the red pick up. The underside does not look as nice as the top, and to be honest, does raise a red flag for me, but I deal with this all the time. Excellent point, Dave. My dad, whom you know very well, taught me to always assume the engine is going to need to be rebuilt no matter how good the car looks, and no matter what you've been told about the engine... and to make an offer on a car accordingly (in other words, about the same amount you'd pay if the car wasn't running at all). That way (assuming the seller accepts the offer), even if the car needs an engine rebuild right away, you're not immediately upside down in it. Yes, you'll walk away from a lot of cars you'd like to own, but if money isn't growing on the tree in your back yard, it's good advice. Many times he bought cars that didn't need an engine rebuild right away, but as much as he toured in cars across the country, they eventually did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Agree with all of these experience based comments, but another way of looking at it is even a well sorted restoration doen properly could have an unexpected issue arise. Barry, I think the best advice here was from Matt indicating once you sort it out you will eventually forget the stink of the rework and enjoy the ride - nice truck with just the right touches. Just not sure how that fits in with the Continental theme.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) My wife is a Concours Judge. Her qualifications are simple. She knows cars and knows what she likes, and she has 30wt running through her veins. She also sings an awesome National Anthem, so she keeps getting invited back.A few years ago she was judging at the Glenmoor Gathering and judged a commercial vehicle class, one of her favorites. You guys would love her, she hates judging hot rods. She had a green '37 Ford pick-up in the class that she became enamored with. On the ride home we were talking about the show when she said, "You know, we really could use a vintage pick-up in the collection." I simply turned my head and nodded, knowingly. The hunt was on.That desire to fulfill her outward expression of want is likely what kept me from seeing it first-hand. In my haste to please I broke the base rule of never trusting anyone when it comes to their representation of a vehicle. I did fly to Philadelphia to see the Mark II, but not this vehicle.As far as the "Continental" tie-in the only one is the "Continental face" that so many Ford product wore in '40 and '41. I think they are one of the prettiest light-duty trucks of the period, second only to the Hudson Terraplane.Edit: There is no stink for me. I needed a new project to get me started again. I'm actually enjoying every moment of the process. From parts ordering to refinishing of tired surfaces it's a case of instant gratification. I order parts, they show up and the vehicle starts going back together. It has been very satisfying and rewarding to use no more than a basic tool set to disassemble, rebuild, reinstall and test how well the systems work.It's also nice to have a vehicle that has such a great support community. Edited March 19, 2013 by Barry Wolk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I have to say that it does seem like a very nice truck, other than the Mickey Mouse repairs. Hopefully it just needs some attention to details to bring it up to snuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) Thank you.The front suspensions has been thoroughly cleaned and given a fresh semi-gloss rattle-can Rustoleum finish. I've moved onto the transverse front spring. The assembly was way too thick for the spring clamps. The end of the bolts didn't reach the bottom of the castle nuts. This is why. The spring was missing a leaf that was about mid-way in the stack, but three almost full length springs were added. To compound the problem there were 5 very thick wafers of rubber between the top 5 leaves. The additional thickness made the spring clamps worthless.I was advised to restore the original configuration and see if there's a problem. The spring can be easily removed if there was. There were clear witness marks where a leaf was missing.Using those wear marks I used another spring to mark where I wanted to cut it to match the shape of the others.Once it's clamped together the U-bolts will fit again and I'll be able to install proper cotter pins. Edited March 19, 2013 by Barry Wolk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 In my eyes the worst of the Restoration on the truck is done. Fixing the mechanical flaws will take a litte time and cost a few bucks, but it sure beats having to pick out gallons of bondo and pounds of aluminum roofers flashing some back woods redneck bodyman cobbed together. And you don't have to redo the seats because they were recovered with chicken feed bags with chicken feathers for stuffing. I agree, it is a very nice truck and once you get the mechanicals sorted it will be a very enjoyable ride. My 1915 buick had a lot of cotters missing and other small stuff that was overlooked by a previous owner. It did not phase me much as is was nothing I could not deal with myself. The first order of business was too take the motor out and go thought it with a fine tooth comb. Then I needed to make a pair of axles for it. Also the starter generator had a regulating resistance coil missing which I had to make from scatch. You are far from the stuff I needed to do to make my early car tour and parade worthy. Since I had to pour a rod bearing a few years back. I met the problems as challenges and came out a winner. Don't sweat the small stuff. In the long run you will be a winner too Barry. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Just out of curiosity, what happened to the Lincoln stretch job you were working on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 I lost momentum when my wife got sick a few years ago and I became her primary caregiver. She's fine now, so I have no excuse. This project has me all fired up to finish the limo, so you may see some action on that project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 When doing restoration work take lots of photos. This helps with not only reassembly, but also shows what has been done and how it was done.When it is time to sell you will have the documentation to put the buyer at ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 Played musical cars today. My wife wants her Z3 ready to go out the first nice day, but the Mark II was where the Z3 is now, blocking everything in. The Z3 was where the '33 Continental is now. The '41 Ford pickup was where the '33 Continental was. The T-bird is now where the truck was and the Mark II is where the T-bird was. We did all that without moving anything outside. Ever play one of the sliding tile games where there's one missing tile and you have to slide everything around to complete an image or sequence of numbers? There's a name for those things. Was it "slide puzzle"?This is the worst of what I've found. Missing cotter pins is one thing, but missing the entire parking brake mechanism on the left side. It's unconscionable to think that some one would do this intentionally. The ball on the end of the cable was secured to the shoe guide with bailing wire and the cable adjusted so that only the right rear would operate.It's apparent to me from the new drum that the original parking brake lever or connecting bar came loose and destroyed the drum. Instead of replacing the parts they wired the cable up and never gave it a second thought. Anyone got a '41 Ford parts car?The passenger side has the mechanism.The driver's side is missing. Got one? None of the restoration catalogues I've seen has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 First thing that I do when I have an old Vehicle is to get a complete set of books including a parts book. I'm sure the parts are out there, but will be much easier to find with the correct part number and range of applictions it was used on. I have seen and repaired stuff that was a lot worse. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 You're right. It appears I need #2104 and #2109 and associated hardware.http://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/fileattachments/Brake%20Diagram.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 You're right. It appears I need #2104 and #2109 and associated hardware.http://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/fileattachments/Brake%20Diagram.JPGAarrrr Captian Jack Sparrow, it be the Black pearl matey.... grasp it and the Treasue will be yours... Harr harr harr.... Now go and try to find those parts for a 1915 Buick. Consider yourself lucky that you do not need a complete machine shop to keep your vintage auto running. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 Quite the opposite. I'm continually amazed at the quantity and quality of parts available for this vehicle. What really astounds me is how reasonably priced the parts seem to be.Would anyone be able to turn those drawing numbers into a Ford part numbers for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Do you have any hard copies of any books? I always buy original hard copies where I can. Here is one place to look... Johnsons... Ford 1941 Truck Owner Manual Reference Book 41 New | eBayThere is another in Rochester NY, The name excapes me at the moment..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) Here you are. Walter Miller. He has a parts book. You own the truck. It is well worth having the books. Ford*::*Truck*::*AutoLit.com Edited April 3, 2013 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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