Guest GaWajn Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Hi Guys,I guess this is the official start of my restoration. I have had some experience restoring vintage snowmobiles ... but this is my first attempt at doing a car.The candidate is a 1952 Pontiac Catalina Super Deluxe.This is going to take between two and four years to complete, depending on the financial situation as I go.Let's start with the aquisition ...I bought the car unseen this winter. I went on a road trip last week to get the car and bring it home.It was kind of exciting to peek into the barn and get a look at it for the first time.And there she is ... in all her glory ...It wasn't quite as good as I expected ... but it is still a good candidate to restore I believe.Here we are loading it up onto the car hauler ... And ready to hit the road for the 2000 mile trip back home. Home is New Brunswick Canada, and the car was in Wisconsin. It was a bit far to go for the value of the car ... but hey ... it's all a part of the story of getting her back in prime condition.If you are wondering what the yellow thing is in the truck bed ... that's a 1972 Ski Doo Nordic. Since I was going to get the car ... I thought I might search the classifieds along the way ... in case I found a winter gem. Low and behold ... in the Detroit area of all places ... I found this sled with 110 miles on it ... fresh from an estate sale. Pictured are me ... the seller and the sled. Edited July 20, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 That'll be neat car when done. It looks like a solid original, keep us posted! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Yes, great find. You should take a look at Pontiac Custom Safari 55 56 & 57 for free access to a 1950s Pontiac parts manual and a number of other manuals. Good luck, Todd CrewsPOCI 1957 Technical Advisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 My Buick was worse than that. Took a year and a half. Good find and good luck. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unimogjohn Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Good find. Looks to be original paint. Body looks straight too. What does the interior look like? How about the mechanicals? Does she run? Oh, so many questions.What are your plans and timeline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 (edited) I think there has been no repaints in it's life. The body is very straight. The interior is in decent shape for the year but will need to be completly redone. It does not run at this time. The owner says that the motor was not stuck and he poured some oil in the plug holes. I tried to turn it over with the fan blade ... and it would not budge. It might be slightly stuck ... or very stuck ... I don't know that yet.The plan is for an original restoration. I am not certain what level I want to bring it to yet ... off frame or not ... The timeline is from two to four years depending on available funds ... My first priority is to try to get it running.Thanks for your interest. Edited October 2, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Tried to move the engine this morning. It is frozen. I put some penetrating oil in each plug hole and will wait a couple of days to try turning it with a power bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 It is a great looking car. It will be fun to watch you restore it. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Hello Fellow Canuc,Wish I had known you were passing by, as I have a 1981 Ski Doo 4500 I bought new that I'm will to sell to a collector. Sadly..... while it only has 1,100 kms on it I did not keep it stored well and..... needs a lot of TLC. I'm across the river from Detroit in Ontario and with mild winters just did not get my moneys worth of riding out of it but had fun when I did! As to your Pontiac, Love the fact it is a hard top! I know a fellow here that has a two door sedan that is REALLY nice in original maroon but yours has those special rare lines one does not see often.Be patient with loosening that motor. I was able to get my 58 Buick motor free after a bit of (long) time. Keep your progress posted and good luck (have fun - it's a keeper!).Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Finaly got it off the trailer and onto the ground. The engine is still stuck ... I will try again on tuesday ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Some people swear by using auto trans fluid to free up seized parts, though I've never used it for that. Hopefully she'll free up for you with some patience. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 If it does not free up in a couple of days ... I will try the auto trans fluid and see how that goes. Thanks for the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Someone told me to try and do something every day to the car ... that it will help keep my interest high.Well ... you have to start somewhere.I removed the generator this afternoon. No special issues with the removal. Just 9/16ths and 1/2 inch bolts and nuts. I am taking pictures of everything as I remove them, because I might not remember exactly how everything goes when I reassemble. It could be a couple of years before I reinstall something in the car.I will be taking the generator apart for cleaning and painting as well as verifying that everything is working as it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Today's progress ... I poured some diesel fuel into each cylinder in an attempt to free up the engine ... we will see if this works ...After that ... I removed the fan and water pump pulley ... Here you see my blasting cabinet. I bought that when I started restoring snowmobiles. I believe that this is the most useful tool I have ever bought. I need lots of air though. 25 CFM is recommended. Lucky I have my shop right next to my buddy George that runs a body shop, so I have access to all kinds of goodies ... The pieces after some glass beading ... They cleaned up pretty good. No dents or anything needing fixing ... just clean and paint ... Here I show the pieces after applying primer. I am just using a laquer primer. I will get to painting these parts tomorrow ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The black for the under hood parts should be a semi gloss black? I am building a driver car ... no need to be perfect, but I want everything to be as close as reasonably and feasibly possible ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) I decided to remove the radiator, fan shroud and radiator upper baffle assembly to gain better access to the front of the engine ... to better apply torque to try to free it up ... With fan removed ... Radiator upper baffle assembly before removal ... after it was removed ... marking the wiring as I go ... something is clacking in there ... there is something moving ... but it is still seized ... will retry tomorrow ... Edited May 23, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 The radiator looks in very good condition ... What should be done to it? Bring it to a rad shop and have it cleaned and pressure tested? Will this old core do the job?also ... what is this thing? It ran from the lower rad to somewhere near the transmission ... It almost looks like a transmission fluid cooling line ... but there is no return line as far as I can see for now ... Any ideas out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalef62 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 If you can get the flywheel cover off the car, it is better if you try turning the crank from there.Nice car!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 you mean if I remove the starter ... I could try to move it via the flywheel cogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 you mean if I remove the starter ... I could try to move it via the flywheel cogs? Yes, I think that's what he means, ATF is very useful and I also use it in a pinch in junkyards when I need a part that's stuck. GM HEI distributors can be very hard to get out, and so can oil filler tubes like on 2nd generation Olds V8's.....so just reach for that A/T dip stick and apply around those parts and you can coax them out. When you try to break the engine loose try rocking back and forth gently on the crank---wedged piston rings don't like going in one direction and if enough torque is applied they will break. For your engine compartment black color use satin black. Eventually with polishing down after many years and car shows it begins to look rather glossy. Here is a picture of my Olds engine compartment. All the paint including the engine is original---I'm the original owner and at one time those inner fenders were satin black;http://www.pismoderelicts.com/photogallery/new%20format%20830/images/p1080789.jpgGood luck with your project. Two weeks ago I was fortunate to tag along on the Early Times Chapter (1926-1954) of POCI for their west coast flathead reunion tour. I want one of those (1949-1952) really bad!!D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Great car. Looking and hoping the motor will turn for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BJM Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 also ... what is this thing? It ran from the lower rad to somewhere near the transmission ... My 1st purchase after the car would be a shop manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I have the shop manual already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Time for decoding ... P8WH#####P = Pontiac Michigan8 = Eight cylinderW = 1952H = Hydramatic##### = sequential serial numberBody plate information:Style No = 52- 2537SD52 = 19522537 = Catalina CoupeSD = Super DeluxeBody No = P11483?????TRIM No = 72?????PAINT No = 2222 = Lower colour = Belfast Green / Upper colour = Seamist GreenI believe that the lower and upper colours can be swapped. ?????TOP ACC ?ACM? = ?????ACM = ?????Any help in decoding or correcting the above information is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The radiator looks in very good condition ... What should be done to it? Bring it to a rad shop and have it cleaned and pressure tested? Will this old core do the job?also ... what is this thing? It ran from the lower rad to somewhere near the transmission ... It almost looks like a transmission fluid cooling line ... but there is no return line as far as I can see for now ... Any ideas out there?hi there, pontiac had a underseat heater, this pipe and hoses return coolant from the heater core back to the radiator, another pipe and hoses brought heated coolant from the cylinder head to the heater valve located under the defroster assembly that's mounted to the driver's side of the firewall and on down to the underseat heater. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 hi, i like the 1952 pontiac radiator, the 1952 core is 1/2 inch thicker than the 53-54 radiator cores. there's a guy in our pontiac1950's group that's selling a nos 1952 pontiac guide driver's side spotlight. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Thanks for the info Charles. Where might I find this fellow who is selling the spotlight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Thanks for the info Charles. Where might I find this fellow who is selling the spotlight? just go to the yahoo pontiac1950s group, i'll go myself and get his name and number. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 hi gawajn, here's the spotlight seller's email address. rockindel@btinternet.com, his name is del, he wants $250.00 plus $75.00 shipping as he is oversea. he has good pictures to send to you. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I found him also. Thanks for your help. For $250 plus shipping from Europe, I think I will try to restore what I have. The one I have is working but needs a new mirror and rechroming.Thanks anyways ... Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Today I started by removing the starter ... just in case it was frozen ... it also gave me access to the flywheel teeth, to try and pry the engine loose ... The starter was free ... and the engine is still frozen ... I removed the thermostat housing ... that was pretty crusty ... I took pictures of everything that was connected to the head ... and then removed these pieces ... after that I loosened the head bolts as the shop manual says ... The head came free easy enough ... The wear on the cylinder walls looks not too bad for the most part ... Valves don't look bad either ... except for the middle pistons ... After jiggling the crank from the harmonic balancer bolt ... we think that piston number 4 counting from the front, is the culprit that won't move. All the others show a little wiggle ... Also ... you can see that piston number 4 is very grungy. I had already removed a lot of crud off the valves before taking that last picture.At this point ... i sprayed some more penetrating oil on top of each cylinder ... and I will try to free the engine up tomorrow maybe ... if that doesn't work ... then I might take a block of wood and a small sledge and try to free piston number 4 up that way.It looks like the engine is going to come out anyways. Once it is on the stand ... I will better be able to assess what it need to get it running again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Looks like moisture was working it's way in to cylinder #4 right from the carb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Simmons Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 GaWajn- A couple of cents worth of experience with flathead Pontiac motors. The last Pontiac flathead motor that I owned was a '41 silver streak six with the same trouble that yours has. Even with the motor out of the car and on a stand it was a bear to take apart as the pistons were frozen in place both above and below on the cylinder walls. The block of wood and hammer approach worked for me although it took a lot harder blows than I imagined it would to loosen and remove the pistons. The block had to be machined as the pitting from being frozen would not clean up with just honing. Be careful to examine the the pistons after they are cleaned up for cracks and ring land damage. Last bit of advice. These inline 8's are long and heavy for engine stands be sure to mount it on one with a strong bed plate(2000 lb load) and spread the bolt pattern out as wide as possible. I found that a strong prop bolted to the front end of the block eliminated most all of the bounce when working on the motor. Think SAFETY!!! Good Luck with your project what a beauty she'll be when done. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 That's going to be a toughie. I wonder what caused that one to be so rusted, and the others look quite decent? But it will be a beauty when its' done. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Thanks for the input guys ... always apreciated. At this point, I believe that I should take the engine out and do a complete tear down to see where I am at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landman Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I support what Mark says about the stand. I did an Oldsmobile 8 which would be very similar and it bent the plate. i ended up supporting the front with a correct piece of wood on the front of the stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 What did the head gasket look like for indication of head gasket leaking coolant, and I would be interested in seeing under #3 piston also. Have you got a long steel ( straight edge ) for measuring flatness on the block and head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Good points ... I will get to that tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 (edited) Here are pictures of the head gasket from both sides. Everything appears to be OK.I have started a new thread in the Pontiac Flathead forum for the engine rebuild discussion. Once I have a plan ... I will show the actual rebuild in this thread.I just wanted to avoid thread clutter. I know ... I am defective The carb is a Carter WCD which is the better one to have, compared to the earlier WDO. At least that is from what I have concluded from other threads about these old Carters.I also put a straight edge on the top of the block ... and then on the removed head. They are flat. No signs of warpage or that anything is amiss. Edited May 26, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 When applying pressure at the harmonic balancer bolt ... in a back and forth manner ... I can feel movement on every piston except number four. All the others move, therefor I think that the cruddy looking piston number four, is the culprit.There are no marking on the piston tops, so I assume that they are standard bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now