Guest GaWajn Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 The next step for the oil pan is to stip the old paint and rust. I started using a brass wire brush, but it was taking forever.I went to the local jobber store and got some 3M strip-it disks. They are made to use with the ROLOC system, which I have on my angle die grinder ... perfect!Well let me tell you ... it goes way faster than a wire wheel. It seems to take off a little bit more material also, so caution is advised. After I went over the pan with the strip-it disk, I then went over the entire pan with some scotchbrite pads. Washed the pan with a degreaser ... then spayed it with a rust encapsulator. It is supposed to convert the remaining rust in the pits to a black substance, that you can do bodywork over ... primer ... filler ... whatever your fancy.It says to let dry 24 hours before working with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 By the way ... the heat riser in the manifold is still frozen solid. Electrolysis did not free it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Here you can see the difference when it starts to dry. The pan on the left was sprayed about one hour before the small pan. It is drying out to a black primer surface just like it says on the can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Looking good! Keep up the good work!Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I've followed your thread from the beginning, very interesting and well documented. Thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Thanks for the comments guys. I am not fishing for compliments, but when positive comments come ... it puts a little giddyup in my tank thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I just call it as I see it, if it looks good, I pass my thoughts along. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished project!Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) I have not been posting much lately, that's because I am enjoying the summer doing other stuff. Once in a while I will spend a day in the shop working ... today is such a day ...I have sanded the rust converter coat off. It remains in the pits, but flakes off the flat surfaces ... Here you see some deep spots. They are caused by the original stamping. I don't want to fill these ... I just want to fill the rust pits ... Here you see an example of the remaining rust pitting. These areas, I want to fill.Since there was no collision damage, and no dents to fill, I just need a light coat of filler. I am using a finishing putty, or glaze putty if you wish. It goes on like thick butter and sands easily ...Here you see the areas that I wanted to use filler.As you can see ... most of the putty will find it's way to the ground. I don't want a thick coat ... just enough to smooth out the pitted areas ... I am using a 3M DA air sander with the hook and loop system of sandpaper. I also use a foam backing pad to help with sanding the contours. These sanding disks are more expensive but I find they last longer ... so it works about even in the end I believe.Ready for a primer coat ...This picture shows the pans after two coats of high build primer. I will let this dry for a few hours at least and then sand and top coat. Edited August 21, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) I waited a couple of hours ... scuffed the primer with a fine scotchbrite pad ... then painted two coats of HIRSCH engine enamel, with a foam brush.I had gotten fantastic results from painting the cast iron parts with a brush, I thought I would give the foam brush a try on sheet metal, because I have had good results with foam brushing finishes on wood in the past. The results are terrible ... hehe. I will let this dry for a few days, then I will sand it and spray it for a proper result. I should have known better, but what the hey. Now I have first hand experience on how not to do something!Cost of the paint delivered is $54Running total = $6324 Edited August 21, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I have been hunting for a source to supply me with the correct paint colours for my car. This has been a frustrating exercise. I first had the local Dupont people do a search based on old Dupont codes. Seamist Green: DUCO 246-55954 / DULUX 93-55954, Belfast Green: DUCO 246-55961-H / DULUX 93-55961-KThe results were not even close. They then got their camera setup to try and get a match that way. On the Seamist Green, they had something close ... but not quite ... and nothing for the Belfast Green. They then had me try and find a match using colour chips from their catalogue. I found a colour that was a close match ... but they could only make it in a paint designed for aircraft or something like that, and it was going to cost a fortune. They then sent me to the local PPG shop ... go figure ... At the PPG shop ... they looked and hunted ... nothing. They said that the US colours are very difficult to cross reference, if not impossible. They then called a PPG Guru somewhere. He came back with information based on the old DITZLER codesSeamist Green: 41144 (or DQE-41144-DAL), Belfast Green: 41145 (or DQE-41145-DAL)He said that the colours could be had with PPG Global or PPG Concept paint brands. The local PPG shops do not carry those brands. I then called the Eastern Canadian PPG rep, and he directed me to a local rep with a lot of experience. This guy made some research ... and came back to me and said that those paints can no longer be sold in Canada because of VOC compliance regulations ... whatever that is ... He is now saying that he wants to see the car and try his camera on it, to see if he can help me out. Is it always this complicated? or is this just a Canadian thing?I am thinking that if I had some fresh samples of these paints on sample cards, then someone over here could probably match that to whatever is legal over here. Is this an idea, or a pipe dream?Can anyone out there offer some clues to help me out, or get me on the right track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest StevenT Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hey GawajnIt's funny, your story about finding the correct paint is much like the one I experienced myself trying find the right color for my 1947 ford. Unfortunately it seems like it is just as difficult in the States as it is in Canada or at least it was for me.I too first visited my local Dupont Supplier where most of the original ditzler/dupont paint codes they couldn't even find information on, like you what they did find (mixed me up some samples) looked nothing like what I was looking for. $40.00 down the drain.I then went to my local PPG supplier. They were able to locate and pull up all of the paint colors from the codes I gave them, but again like you, said they could not cross reference the formulas to acrylic enamel. They told me if I had a sample card with the color on it they could scan it and match it perfectly. Well I didnt have a sample.What I had to do was, I took one of the sample pints (that dupont mixed for me) that came the closest to what i was looking and poured it into several small cups and started tinting it a little bit at a time until it was a match for what I wanted. I used some acrylic enamels I had from previous projects to tint it with. I sprayed the color that I was happy with on the sample cards PPG provided me with and took it to them to match. They were able to match it perfectly! In-fact I just finished painting the cab of my car with the newly mixed paint and I'm extremely happy with it. You can seen it here http://forums.aaca.org/f190/1947-ford-coupe-sedan-restoration-310847-2.htmlAnyways I don't know if that helps you in anyway, but thought I would share my similar experience with you. I hope it helps and good luck with your restoration its looking great so far, i'll keep watching.-Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Among my two Pontiac's and one Oldsmobile I also collected a couple of VW Beetles. One of my Beetles is a 65 standard model that has many parts painted in L-328 steel gray instead of chrome plating. There is a paint code for this color, but nobody makes it and in the U.S. nobody has a paint chip, and the code isn't listed in anyone's color chart. Because this color is used on the outside and inside of the vehicle I took a door handle from this car that I had in storage to my local auto paint supplier. The supplier made a series of mixed combinations which took about a week to get the color just like the sample I had given him. Will your paint supplier do this for you?D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 StevenT,Thanks for your story. It helps just to know I am not the only one to have paint problems. By the way ... your coup looks awesome!Helfen,I don't know if my paint supplier will go the extra mile ... we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The local auto paint paint dealer, using their camera, was able to find a match formula to base the mix on, Royal Maroon for my '41 Buick Roadmaster, and it turned out well. That said, the VOC (Volatile Organic Compounds, I think) regulations have changed, especially here in Ontario, I'm told, but I got my paint about a year before these took effect, though I don't know how I will fair the next time I need paint. Also, there are new regulations that pertain to selling these products to small operators, meaning guys like us, you're supposed to have a proper license to buy them, though the shop I've dealt with will sell to me, and put the sale under another name.Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The local auto paint paint dealer, using their camera, was able to find a match formula to base the mix on, Royal Maroon for my '41 Buick Roadmaster, and it turned out well. That said, the VOC (Volatile Organic Compounds, I think) regulations have changed, especially here in Ontario, I'm told, but I got my paint about a year before these took effect, though I don't know how I will fair the next time I need paint. Also, there are new regulations that pertain to selling these products to small operators, meaning guys like us, you're supposed to have a proper license to buy them, though the shop I've dealt with will sell to me, and put the sale under another name.Keith Keith, next time try to keep your comments low, perhaps a PM to GaWajn would be better. Your comment just ramps up the do gooders to further increase pressure for enforcement on a already over regulated industry. Please.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Sorry to offend!Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 No offence taken Buicknutty. And while helfen does have a point, I don't believe that comments written in this forum will have any great impact one way or another on what the so called do-gooders, do or not.I have just bought a new house, therefor I will not be doing too much on the old girl for the next couple of weeks, because I will be busy with chores at the new place on most days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Thanks, Gawajn. I'll be looking forward to the next installment, whenever that happens!Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) I got the hood inside, for dismantling ... Restoring the hood is mostly labor .. so I am starting this project while the engine problems are being sorted.I first removed the two braces from underneath the hood ... the hinges are riveted to the back brace. I will not be separating those three parts, and will restore them as a unit.Along with various latches etc .. There are many small nuts that have to be removed from the bolts that are holding down the center stainless silver streak molding. Quite a few of these carriage type bolts were spinning free in their holders so I had to cut the nuts off. I don't know if that molding can be taken off with prying. I did not want to bend it so I decided that little bolts can be easily replaced, whereas the molding would be much more expensive.The is a bracket at the front of the hood along with two bolts ... and many sheet metal screws holding the two parts of the hood together.Once removed ... the hood parts can be split.I was going to keep the original under hood undercoating ... but it looks a little ratty .. so I am going to strip both sides of the hood to prepare for refinishing.I kinda thought that the original label from Fond du Lac Wisconsin undercoating guys was kinda cool. Edited August 30, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Looks like I found a good spot for the paint people to get a colour match! ... I have a cheapo camera in the shop ... the green colour that you see on the hood is not what I see with my eyes. It is greener ... not as bluish ... Edited August 30, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I does look blue-ish on the web. The undercoating label is cool. I remember as a kid Ziebart was the company of choice for undercoating. Something people rushed to do if not done at the dealer. The stuff does work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Check the colour of Bernie Hackett's 52 at the 2006 POCI Convention...color looks the same as yours where the silver streak has been hiding it!http://www.sccpoci.com/images/events/2006national/13.JPGD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Thank you for the picture helfen, but I can't base my colour choice on a picture that has not been calibrated with a gray card. While that picture looks great ... (and I thank you for it), I will still need the paint people to take a picture of my hood and try to match the paint that way.I used to work for a major broadcaster in the video field and the only way to base colours choices off of a picture was with a picture that had a colour calibrated grey card in it somewhere, or that the camera had been calibrated using standard grey scale chart. If you are viewing the picture on a computer screen ... that screen also has to be calibrated. My screen is calibrated, and that's why I immediately noticed that the colour was off.PS: Do you have a picture of that car that is in better focus? I would love to have one so that I could use it as my desktop background on my computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Sorry, that's the best one I have. I know the owner, and have seen the car many times. Bernie is a POCI member, works with the Early Times chapter and is also a AACA judge. http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/250792_222454514451076_5336887_n.jpgI think your unexposed hood portion is more than enough for a color match. You could contact Bernie?D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) LO AND BEHOLD!!!I decided to go to the Sherwin Williams Automotive store with the half portion of my hood. They started comparing standard colour chips that they have in their system. They found an almost exact match. If you were to try and match lets say a fender to an already painted original hood ... it would not be perfect. But since I am doing the complete car ... it is very very close. In other words ... unless you show this car against an original painted car side by side (Is there still an original one in existance?) ... no one will be able to tell the difference. And that is good enough for me.The colour is code L6T (2003 Volkswagen). Sherwin Williams ATX 3.5 VOC Basecoat.Pictures to follow ... Edited August 30, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Here are two pictures to show the colour match.One picture has a test card on it that shows pure almost white and almost pure black. The other picture shows just the colour match without the test card. It doesn't matter if my little crappy camera is not colour acurate ... you can plainly see that the paint match is very close to the original painted surface. I am a happy camper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 hi, that is an excellent close match to the original color, i would have made the same choice, great job. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 hi, that is an excellent close match to the original color, i would have made the same choice, great job. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.X2 here, I feel kind of stupid here saying this, but I never would have guessed that hood was two piece. I knew Chevy was. So the question for you Charles is; are 53-54 two piece?D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 This morning, I am starting the stripping job. First up is undercoating removal. I am just scrapping the coating off with a razor blade ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Man this is hard work! A lot of elbow grease is needed for this part of the job ... So as not too discourage myself too much ... I am only doing half the hood at a time, till it is totally finished. That way ... I will be able to spread out the crappy jobs over a period of time ... and keep my spirits up.Here is the result of the worst of it ... next up ... paint removal ... Edited August 31, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The underneath hood paint seems to be semi gloss black with a little green overspray. Is this correct? Or are you guys doing the underside in colour coat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) There seems to be a coat of green under the black ... answered my own question ... I think ... chime in if you have correct information on the under hood treatment. Edited August 31, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 hi don, yes the the 53-54 pontiac hoods are two piece hoods like you the 52 hood in these pictures. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) I continued to strip the finish off to get to bare metal.I used a DA with 120 grit ... then 220 grit ... then a wire wheel to get into the areas that I couldn't reach with the DA ... a little bit of scotchbrite for the valleys ... The stamping leaves some valleys etc on the underside. I am not too worried about the underside ... I will make everything absolutely flat on the topside though.And here I am for the moment. I will have to break out the sandblaster for the edges that have moderate rust. It's the only way I can get there. I will get to that next week ...I am pleased with the way it is coming along ... I spot sprayed some rust encapsulator in the pitted areas, to stop the rusting process ... Edited August 31, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 After a first coat of stripper ... I sanded a bit with 120 grit ... but I will need more stripper I think. I don't want to over work an area to create heat buildup that could warp the panel. To be continued ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 As I am stripping the finish off the hood, I can say that the top side of the hood had Belfast Green paint over black primer. I am still uncertain about the under side. My best guess is that the under side of the hood was not painted and left in primer black. I could be wrong because when I removed the undercoating ... the green paint if there was any, might have come off at the same time.I am still looking to find out the correct way to refinish the underside of the hood. Black primer ... or ... green paint over black primer ... anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I have gone to the liquid stripper. The cost is lower than the spray, it is more concentrated, and there is no over spray.Stripper 2 spray cans = $15.32Stripper liquid Gallon = $32.766 Crappy paint brushes = $5.151 roll (2.75 inches wide) stick on 180 grit sand paper = $30.041 roll (2.75 inches wide) stick on 320 grit sand paper = $30.04Dry guide coat 3M = $40.128 spray cans rust encapsulator = $33.83DA sanding disks, 120 grit (50) = $24.86DA sanding disks, 320 grit (50) = $24.86DA sanding disks, 400 grit (50) = $24.86DA sanding disks, 1500 grit (25) = $56.12Box of blades = $5.14Scotchbrite pads Medium grit (20) = $22.00Scotchbrite pads fine grit (20) = $22.00Spayable polyester putty (1 QT) = 21.681 quart paint (base coat) and chemicals in Belfast Green = $100.721 can Glazing putty = $22.743M strip it ROLOC wheels (9) = 71.02Running total = $6324New Materials = $533.26New running total = $6857 (aprox) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Received this tool today. I am not adding the cost to the running total because this is a tool ... not shop materials. It can be used for multiple purposes. I will say that it cost close to $300 shipped to me. This will be a real cost saver because I am planning to polish all my stainless etc ... and since it is a two speed buffer ... maybe the plastic parts also ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Finished stripping the paint off the first section of the hood.I will need to sand blast some spots that are rusty ... then start with the bodywork. When I removed the finish ... I found spots that were filled with spot putty. Looks to have been done at the factory, because it was under the original finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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