1952 Pontiac Catalina

[avgwarhawk]

I'm thinking cylinder 4 being just below the carb was getting moisture from the carb leaving it rusty and struck. Keep working it.

[Guest Killerbunny]

Great tips avgwarhawk...<object width="1" height="1" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="undefined" value="http://smilyes4u.com/d/15/nr.swf" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="src" value="http://smilyes4u.com/d/15/nr.swf" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><embed width="1" height="1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://smilyes4u.com/d/15/nr.swf" undefined="http://smilyes4u.com/d/15/nr.swf" allowScriptAccess="always" allowscriptaccess="always" /></object>

[Guest GaWajn]

You might be right avgwarhawk. By the amount of sludge and deposits in cylinder four ... I am thinking that there was a problem with it before it sat for 15 years. Maybe not firing or some other reason that would accumulate that amount of deposits? Anyways ... it doesn't matter what the problem was ... the whole engine has to be gone through, to make certain that everything will be working A-OK.

[avgwarhawk]

I just believe water was making its way into the cylinder from the carb. The head gasket looks to be fine. I'm believing oil and some time for it to work in, number 4 will come loose. I'm an optimist. :-)

[Guest GaWajn]

I have a few questions about paint under the hood.

I have a pretty good idea what to paint as far as fenders, firewall etc ...

1 - Generator - Is the colour semi gloss black? Are the end plates Silver? Argent? Bare metal? What about the studs? The nuts that hold the wires?

2 - Starter - All the same questions that I asked about the generator, apply to the starter.

3 - Head bolts - Painted green? Black? Bare metal?

If someone has ''PERIOD CORRECT'' detailed pictures from under the hood, I would very much apreciate to see them.

thanks

[Guest GaWajn]

The love of my life was busy doing something this weekend ... so I decided to keep going on the car.

Just some general stuff today.

As you can see in the picture, I use a vibratory tumbler to clean my nuts and bolts. The media I use is a pyramidal shaped stone ... then I add some degreasing agent to water ... drop the fastners in ... turn the machine on, and come back the next morning. After rinsing and drying ... I drop them in walnut shell media, and let it tumble for a few hours. This has a polishing effect.

It is a very gentle way to clean fastners. I prefer this method to media blasting because I find that media blasting ... especialy the small parts is tedious.

The tumbler method degreases ... de-rusts ... and polishes the fastners with no elbow grease. Whats not to like.

The first tumbler I got was from the Eastwood company. The tumbler did not last more than two weeks. I kept the media and degreaser, and I bought the tumbler you see in the picture. I got it from the people who supply the rock and minerals polishing crowd. These machines are made to use 24/7. They are heavy duty. So far ... I am very happy with my system.

After they are cleaned and polished ... I chase the threads on the bolts ... just to get them cleaner and remove burrs if there are any. I guess a person should use a chaser set ... but I only have a tap and die set, so that's what I used.

All cleaned ... identified ... and bagged ... ready for assembly

Edited July 20, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history)

[Guest]

This 1950 Business coupe's engine compartment is pretty much where you want to be. I don't paint the ends of the generator and starter silver, after cleaning them and blasting them I clear coat them.

http://www.morrisonmotorco.com/publicpics/ATS9408/images/100_2813.JPG

http://www.morrisonmotorco.com/publicpics/ATS9408/images/100_2815.JPG

http://www.morrisonmotorco.com/publicpics/ATS9408/images/100_2818.JPG

http://www.morrisonmotorco.com/publicpics/ATS9408/images/100_2811.JPG

http://www.morrisonmotorco.com/publicpics/ATS9408/images/100_2810.JPG

http://www.morrisonmotorco.com/publicpics/ATS9408/images/100_2808.JPG

This car in my opinion would need to be re-wired, as the harness is starting to break down and it would also need the correct battery and battery cover to be correct. But a very nice car!BTW it's for sale and reported as only 20K miles! I would have a crack at that one if it were a eight and a automatic!

Don

Edited May 27, 2012 by helfen (see edit history)

[Guest GaWajn]

Thanks for the timely response ... and pictures helfen.

[Buicknutty]

I like the tumbler system for cleaning the small parts, I've usually blasted them, and besides it being a tedious job, as you mentioned, the finish isn't as nice. I'll try it out for the next time.

Keith

[Guest GaWajn]

I hit the number four cylinder with a ball peen hammer and a small wood block. It freed up. It now moves up and down ... below where the piston was stuck. It won't move fully up the cylinder till all that crud is cleaned up. Here is a small video of the engine freed up.

WOOT!

Edited May 28, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

Great! Looking forward to seeing you breath life back into this car. :-)

[Guest GaWajn]

Removed the front bumper in preparation to remove the front clip. The shop manual says the front clip can be removed as a unit ... but I didn't figure out how to do it without removing the bumper ... anyways ... it's off now.

Every second bolt is breaking. I think new fastners for these areas is in the cards.

... hopefully the front clip will come off before I am done for the day.

Edited May 28, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history)

[Guest GaWajn]

Making huge progress late this afternoon.

Hood removed ...

Front clip removed ...

The metal looks very good ...

A question ... does anyone know what the number four ... behind the washer bottle means?

[Landman]

Maybe the number of an inspector?

[Guest GaWajn]

Might be ...

All covered up till I get to the engine removal ...

[avgwarhawk]

You have made a lot of progress. Nice job!

[PONTIAC1953]

hi, let me know if you'll need a good working power antenna assembly, pontiac used the same power antenna from 1952 to 1954, i have a nos one for my 1953 chieftain custom catalina, and i have the good working used one that i will sell. $400.00 charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. charlessdv8@yahoo.com

[PONTIAC1953]

1952 was the first year for the dual range improvement to the single range hydra-matic trans. and as you now know, the first year for the power antenna. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

[Guest GaWajn]

Thanks for the info Charles.

[Guest GaWajn]

I have more information about the decoding.

50scars from the POCI forum says that the body number was a number assigned by Fisher body and has no value to the end owner.

He states that the TRIM No 72 means, ''Trim 72 is the all leather interior in matching dark and light green leather with the exterior Belfast green and Seafoam Green. This was exclusive to the 2537 SD, along with carpet in the front compartment, and through out the car that was also green''.

Charles Coker states ''these letters BACM, are two two letter codes for groups of options, BA means basic group, which had turn signals, back up lights, tilting non-glare rearview mirror, heater & defroster, and radio with manual antenna. CM means comfort group, which had the windshield sun visor & traffic light viewer, windshield washer, and latex foam seat cushions''.

Thanks to both, and the POCI forums for helping out.

Edited June 4, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history)

[Guest]

Check out this link. There are many more out there too. I can's seem to find the one link on you tube that shows a 52 chassis with engine and trans on the assy. line where it comes to the body drop area. After the body is bolted down the complete front end, sans hood and bumper comes from another line and goes over and installed to body/frame. I'll keep searching. I thought of this after I saw that you had removed the ft. end in one piece.

10 Salesmen Training Films For The 1952-1953-1954 Pontiac Part 8 - YouTube

10 Salesmen Training Films For The 1952-1953-1954 Pontiac Part 5 - YouTube

D.

[Landman]

Did you ever find out what that number 4 means?

[Guest]

Here is another promotional film, although the title says 1949 they are featuring 1952 and dual range HydraMatic.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=1951%20pontiac%20promotional%20film%20you%20tube&source=video&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CFgQtwIwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DlAdUc0Ksndg&ei=2x_MT4OVMbTo2gXpkMXaCw&usg=AFQjCNFgXSw82RkEw7M3Pn2PhGl0b3A6Kw

D.

[Guest GaWajn]

number 4 might be an inspector mark ... no confirmations about that yet ...

I am going to be busy for the next couple of weeks, so there might not be much progress ...

Edited June 4, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history)

[Guest GaWajn]

I have a question for the body restorers out there ... what gauge sheet metal should I be using to make partch panels for this car?

[poci1957]

I have a few questions about paint under the hood.

1 - Generator - Is the colour semi gloss black? Are the end plates Silver? Argent? Bare metal? What about the studs? The nuts that hold the wires?

2 - Starter - All the same questions that I asked about the generator, apply to the starter.

3 - Head bolts - Painted green? Black? Bare metal?

If someone has ''PERIOD CORRECT'' detailed pictures from under the hood, I would very much apreciate to see them.

thanks

The generator body is semi gloss black with gray end plates--I used Eastwood Underhood Black and Detail Gray spray paint on mine. Starter is the same. Head bolts are green, note that the engine was painted as a unit so most attachments that are painted green would have green nuts and bolts.

Note the valve cover in this photo. The valve cover was painted while attached to the engine so the lower bolts should also be green. The natural steel colored line on the top edge was attached later, so those bolts should be plated, not painted. Good luck with yours,

Todd Crews

POCI 1957 Technical Advisor

[Guest]

The generator body is semi gloss black with gray end plates--I used Eastwood Underhood Black and Detail Gray spray paint on mine. Starter is the same. Head bolts are green, note that the engine was painted as a unit so most attachments that are painted green would have green nuts and bolts.

Note the valve cover in this photo. The valve cover was painted while attached to the engine so the lower bolts should also be green. The natural steel colored line on the top edge was attached later, so those bolts should be plated, not painted. Good luck with yours,

Todd Crews

POCI 1957 Technical Advisor

Hi Todd, since you are 57 tech advisor can you please tell me the story on those one year only 57 valve covers? I have seen 57's with the script on both valve covers, no script at all, and the most common-with script only on the rt. bank.:confused:!

D.

[Buicknutty]

I've generally used 20 gauge steel for body repairs, and 18 on the floors, thou some folks use 22 on the body. 18 can be used for the fenders too, but if the is much shaping to do, it is difficult to do, though it is easier to weld in than the thinner steel.

Keith

[Guest Krooser]

Regarding the radiator. It's ALWAYS best, IMHO, to use the original radiator whenever possible. They are stronger than the offshore stuff that's sold today.

I took my F100 rad to a shop last year thinking it needed a new core. They repaired the old one, tested it and gave it a thumbs up.

[Guest GaWajn]

Thanks for the info about metal rads etc .. guys. The plan is to pull the engine on Thursday morning ... I will post the results.

I had the dupont people try to make some samples of the paint I need from information that I had on a 1952 Dupont colour chip chart, along with the codes. It seems that those older colours did not get re-formulated when Dupont upgraded to newer products. From what the rep told me, they only upgrade paints if they have a certain popularity.

They tried hard, but came up short. The next step is that one of the representatives will be coming over with their camera system and try to match the paint that way.

I will be painting the car myself. It will be my first attempt at painting a whole car. I have done a couple of snowmobiles ... but never a car. The way I plan to do it is ...

1 - When the bodywork is done and is as straight as it can be ... I will use spray on putty (polyester primer). I have a gun with a 2.5 tip and a local gent is going to show me how it is done.

2 - Block sand the sprayed putty down using a guide coat ... repeat as needed ...

3 - Apply primer ... then sand smooth

4 - Apply base coat

5 - Apply clear coat

6 - Wet sand

7 - Buff and polish

The reason I am sanding and wet sanding is because I am not a painter. A pro can get good results just spraying, but I am anticipating flaws that need to be fixed before proceding to the next step. With this procedure ... I am confident that I will be able get a show quality paint finish when I am done.

Edited September 13, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history)

[Guest]

After you remove all the old paint don't forget to epoxy prime the body first before any body work as body filler and skim coats go over that primer. When you finish all your body work and finish all your blocking to apply primer sealer before your basecoat.

[Buicknutty]

I painted my '41 Buick myself also, and I chose to use a base clear system for much the same reasons. My facilities and skill level are not pro grade, but planned from the start to do it this way, so I put lots of clearcoat on so that I could sand out the imperfections. Thou wet sanding is another skill in itself.

My car has not been out too much yet, but so far I have got quite a few compliments on my work.

Good bodywork is a matter of good procedure, and lots and lots of patience.

Spraying primer will give you good practice for when you do the finish coats!

Keith

[poci1957]

Hi Todd, since you are 57 tech advisor can you please tell me the story on those one year only 57 valve covers? I have seen 57's with the script on both valve covers, no script at all, and the most common-with script only on the rt. bank.:confused:!D.

Hi Don, sorry it took so long to reply. The script was used on production 1957 347 engines, and each side was unique (so the script was right side up, of course). BUT Tri Power and Fuel Injection used special breathers so they had a special plain valve cover. Later I guess service replacements were blank so they could be used on both sides. Todd C

[poci1957]

Thanks for the info about metal rads etc .. guys. The plan is to pull the engine on Thursday morning ... I will post the results.

I had the dupont people try to make some samples of the paint I need from information that I had on a 1952 Dupont colour chip chart, along with the codes. It seems that those older colours did not get re-formulated when Dupont upgraded to newer products. From what the rep told me, they only upgrade paints if they have a certain popularity.

Hey GaWajn, how do you feel about PPG paints? I have a code number for them:

Belfast Green PPG code 41145

Seamist Green PPG code 41144

PPG DP epoxy primer is great stuff that I swear by. Your paint plans sound OK to me except I would use PPG DP primer, with a K36 surfacer, much sanding as you said, then the base and clear. Good luck, Todd C

[Guest GaWajn]

I already have the PPG codes. It was no help to the Dupont guys, or the Sherwin Williams people when they tried to crossreference.I don't know where to get the PPG stuff around my neck of the woods. I am sure that the Dupont guys will get it right with their camera.

Thanks for your input. As I get closer to actual painting ... I will get all the info posted so you guys can set me on the right track if I goof up. I plan on doing test panels of both colours to see the end result before applying any paint to the car.

[poci1957]

I already have the PPG codes. It was no help to the Dupont guys, or the Sherwin Williams people when they tried to crossreference.I don't know where to get the PPG stuff around my neck of the woods. I am sure that the Dupont guys will get it right with their camera.

I am sure they will. A guy's paint selection is all about having a co-operative paint dealer. In my town I like the PPG guy and I like their online technical data sheets, BUT it is best to adapt to your preferred paint dealer. It is also advisable NOT to mix product lines--if you use DuPont then use DuPont for the whole process.

I cannot tell you how superior I think epoxy primer is--and as it is the foundation for all your later work I would suggest ask your guy what is DuPont's best epoxy primer and use it on all painted parts for the best rust protection. Good luck, Todd C

[Buicknutty]

Using the camera gadget is how Sherwin Williams got a good match to the colour on my chip chart, as the formula was of no use to them.

Keith

[Guest Krooser]

Why not paint the car in lacquer as it was from the factory?

Easy to spray... easy to repair the screw-ups and much cheaper overall. And, I believe, it looks more original than those two stage paints.

I have no objections to two stage paints... but they just don't look "right" on a restoration.

Lacquers are still available from several sources like Bill Hirsch and others.

[Guest GaWajn]

Today is engine removal day.

The engine hoist is in place ...

The car is securely on jack stands ...

I got my buddy george to help me out with this part of the project. I don't think it is a one man job. At least if the one man is me :cool:

[Guest GaWajn]

I disconnected the lines coming from the engine going through the firewall ...

Disconnected the throttle linkage from the block as well the the trans linkage ...

Got the weight of the engine on the hoist ...

Removed the two bolts that connect the front isolator ... the four bolts that connect the rear isolators ... Lifted the engine a bit ... removed the six bolts that hold the rear crossmember ... along with one pesky bolt that holds something else on the drivers side. That last bolt connects to the crossmember. Also disconnected the universal joint at the differential, then removed the prop shaft. Removed the speedometer cable ... and everything was free ...

Edited June 21, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history)