avgwarhawk Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 A lot of work. Looks great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Finished stripping the paint off the first section of the hood.I will need to sand blast some spots that are rusty ... then start with the bodywork. When I removed the finish ... I found spots that were filled with spot putty. Looks to have been done at the factory, because it was under the original finish. So after the sand blasting on those black spots which contain rust, then something like PPG metal prep acid to etch the metal especially in the pits, then neutralize with soda wash, then etching primer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) There is conflicting information out there ... and a lot of mis-information also. I have decided to trust the people at Sherwin Williams who have been helping me with this process.Sand blast the black spots to eliminate the rust ... Clean surface with AQUA-MATE low VOC cleaner ... Then spray on Sherwin Williams Polyester Primer Surfacer 21, which has etching properties ... and can be applied directly to metal surfaces ...Block sand and/or bodywork ... Primer sealer ... Base coat ... Clear coat ...Buff and polish (just to test and practice my skills ... a final buff and polish will be done when the final paint process is applied).That's the way I am gonna do this ...Of course ... I will need to respray all the pieces when it comes time to do the body because the different pieces that were painted at different times will probably not match. Edited September 11, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I now have information from a very reliable source, that the under hood colour should be flat black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The second half of the hood is much like the first part ... Razor blades to get the undercoating off ... I am using the liquid stripper instead of the spray off stuff ... it seems to be more concentrated and works better. Ventilation is a MUST!!! the fumes are very strong.The old paint is coming off much easier than with the spray stripper ... Here I am using a hard pad DA sander instead of the foam backed pad because it removes the remaining paint faster. I will make the final pass with the foam backed pad because it leaves less sanding marks ... Lunch break ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Done sanding ... sprayed rust encapsulator ... waiting for it to dry (30 mins) ... then I will start the other side. When I strip other parts of the car, I will not be posting details unless their is something pertinent about the process that is different from what I have already posted. I will only be posting progress reports about the stripping job at that time. Edited September 12, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Doing the top side ... Working way better than the spray stripper ... I'm sold on this product.A good pair of rubber gloves is a must.I got to this stage in about half the time it took me with the spray on stripper ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Both halves of the hood are now stripped. The next step is going to be some spot sand blasting ... That's it for today ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Not a whole lot happening because I am moving into a new house this weekend ... it will take a few days for the dust to settle ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Someone on another forum stated ... ''The hood should be undercoated with black undercoat. It keeps it from drumming. All of the braces and the hood latch assembly should also be black paint.'' Can anyone confirm this or comment on it? What are you guys using for undercoating on your fifties cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Yaros Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Someone on another forum stated ... ''The hood should be undercoated with black undercoat. It keeps it from drumming.Pray tell, educate me. What is "drumming?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 i believe "drumming" would refer to a sheet of metal that will vibrate due to being close to a running machinery, ie, the large size of the hood being so close to the engine, the paint and underhood coating would greatly reduce the hood's tendency to vibrate. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landman Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think it is called harmonic resonance when a part of the car picks up the frequency of another part like pontiac1953 explains above. I used to have a Model A which started "drumming" behind my head after reaching a certain speed. We ended up to have to insert a piece of foam rubber between the rear roof panel and the upholstery beside the rear window on the driver's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Kettle drum noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Now that the drumming effect has been explained how about some comments on what is the correct finish for under the hood. Under coating or not? Or are both correct as far as judging is concerned? Also ... if under coating is allowed and/or wanted ... what are you guys using on early fifties cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Yaros Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 i believe "drumming" would refer to a sheet of metal that will vibrate due to being close to a running machinery.Got it, thanks! I would not think a '52 Pontiac engine would have enough power to cause drumming, given the weight of the hood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 The drumming is certainly possible on any expanse of sheetmetal, but the undercoat is not a factory coating in that area. IMO the underside of the hood should be flat or satin black like the inner fenders, at least that is the case on 1955-57 and other Pontiacs. "Pontiac1953" should know for sure. In general, on 1950s GM cars undercoating was sometimes factory applied on underbody seams, rear inner wheel housings and in the transmission tunnel. On Pontiacs, except in rare instances on seams, it would not be found on any underhood panel or on the front inner fenders. The full underbody undercoat we think of today would have generally been dealer installed and when seen on a restored car is often suspected of covering up poor workmanship or defects. Pontiac did offer a factory undercoat option but that may not have been until later. Enjoying the thread, Todd CrewsPOCI 1957 Technical Advisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 My 54 Buick is heavily undercoated. This was a car purchased in the NE region in 1954. The sales receipt does not show undercoating as option or addtional to the sale of the car. Just the flexible steering wheel and WW tires. I would surmize the undercoating was done after sale at some time. At any rate, there is no undercoating under the hood but definitely on the firewall. Now, I remember back in the 70's a company called Ziebart. Ziebart undercoated cars for dealers or anyone wanting to coat the cars underside. With that said, our cars undercoated did not have the spray under the hood. Wheel wells, firewall and belly pans. Under the hood stayed the factory insulation and paint. Black satin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Because I could read the original label under the hood ... I now know that the under hood coating was not factory installed. My question now would be ... since my car had a period correct undercoating under the hood ... would the judges accept that I put some on also ... or would they deduct points because it was not factory installed?The question is now more a judging issue or interpretation of the judging rules ... Edited September 21, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Yaros Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 In general, on 1950s GM cars undercoating was sometimes factory applied on underbody seams, rear inner wheel housings and in the transmission tunnel. On Pontiacs, except in rare instances on seams, it would not be found on any underhood panel or on the front inner fenders.I am 110% certain that there was no undercoating on the hood of the '52 Olds my father owned back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Though I'm not an expert, I believe that satin black would be correct. Most changes from factory correct cause a car to lose points in a concours style judging, so I would surmise that even though the hood undercoating was "period correct", if it was present on a restored car this would cause your car to lose some points. That said, it depends on goal with the car, if you aren't worried about to the "T" correct, then go for it if you want it.In the mid seventies a friend had a '62 Chev., and the middle areas of the hood tended to vibrate a bit at highway speeds, not terrible, but it bothered him. Then he had a '62 Pontiac, and it didn't! I don't know if this is typical or not, or if the Pontiac hood was designed to mitigate this, I don't know.Undercoating can be added easily, so you could see how it fares when you start driving it, then put it on if its' needed.Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Yaros Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Is there not a Pontiac Historical Society? Would not it be able to provide an answer to this question?In the Cadillac line, the Cad-LaSalle Club publishes authenticity manuals for various model years that address the matters. Perhaps PHS does the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Most changes from factory correct cause a car to lose points in a concours style judging, so I would surmise that even though the hood undercoating was "period correct", if it was present on a restored car this would cause your car to lose some points.KeithNot so, Keith. Concours judging, for the most part (Pebble Beach excluded), is not point judged at all. It is all about style and elegance. At most concours, it doesn't matter if a particular color was factory correct, or if white sidewalls were standard equipment, or if driving lights were available from the factory, if the judges of that particular show on that particular day don't like the looks of your restoration decisions, they choose a different car for the top awards. In other words, if two identical cars restored exactly the same, except painted in different colors, the car with the more elegant/striking/tasteful (you name it) color will get the judges "nod". Also, a Jaguar XK120 roadster with the top up looks (to put it politely) "not good". With the top down, it is a stunning car. A 1930s Classic with the extra trunk mounted on the luggage rack detracts from the sleekness and good style of the car, and judges take that into account. If someone has installed three extra driving lights, plus two spotlights and a running board light to go along with the two parking lights and two headlights, you can bet the judges of that class will take notice (negatively). All the accessories may be correct, or at least period correct, but at a concours, less is more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 like todd crews said, the underside of the hood and front inner fenders would be a satin black color. also the undercoating would add to the weight of the hood, making it harder for the hood springs to hold the hood up properly. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landman Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Not so, Keith. Concours judging, for the most part (Pebble Beach excluded), is not point judged at all. It is all about style and elegance. At most concours, it doesn't matter if a particular color was factory correct, or if white sidewalls were standard equipment, or if driving lights were available from the factory, if the judges of that particular show on that particular day don't like the looks of your restoration decisions, they choose a different car for the top awards. I wasn't aware that Concours judging wasn't point based. Now that explains why they spend half the night cleaning the inside of the tires with a tooth brush. It's all appearance. You learn something everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray500 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Regardless of your efforts to free up the engine, the reality is you're going to have to tear it down if you expect to really run it. After all these years of sitting you can bet the bearings are probably rusted and frozen especially if the oil wasn't changed and water often gets into the crankcase. These old cars are lots of fun to restore if you can find the parts. They made a lot of these, and parts are somewhat interchangable from 1949-1953 as they used the same engine. The engines can easily be rebuilt by a mechanic that understands flat head 8 cylinder motors. As a kid our family had a brand new '52 & '53 Pontiacs. They were nice cars. And remember the Pontiac was built on the same chassis as the Chevrolet, so some of those parts might work for you. You need to keep in mind that the value of one of these cars is probably around $20-25K fully restored if you're building it to sell. My classic is a 1941 Lincoln Zephyr custom 2 door coupe fully restored. Lots of fun getting it to it's current stage, and you always tweak them after restoration. Good luck on yours! Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) Regardless of your efforts to free up the engine, the reality is you're going to have to tear it down if you expect to really run it. After all these years of sitting you can bet the bearings are probably rusted and frozen especially if the oil wasn't changed and water often gets into the crankcase. These old cars are lots of fun to restore if you can find the parts. They made a lot of these, and parts are somewhat interchangable from 1949-1953 as they used the same engine. The engines can easily be rebuilt by a mechanic that understands flat head 8 cylinder motors. As a kid our family had a brand new '52 & '53 Pontiacs. They were nice cars. And remember the Pontiac was built on the same chassis as the Chevrolet, so some of those parts might work for you. You need to keep in mind that the value of one of these cars is probably around $20-25K fully restored if you're building it to sell. My classic is a 1941 Lincoln Zephyr custom 2 door coupe fully restored. Lots of fun getting it to it's current stage, and you always tweak them after restoration. Good luck on yours! Ray Ray, the Chevrolet, Pontiac and Olds 76 & 88 were using the same "A" body, and some parts on them interchange but all three chassis are markedly different. First, Pontiac's wheel base is 120" Olds is 119.5, and Chevrolet is 115". Chevrolet uses a torque tube rear end, Olds uses a open driveline like Pontiac but uses coil springs in the rear. Edited September 27, 2012 by helfen (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Regardless of your efforts to free up the engine, the reality is you're going to have to tear it down if you expect to really run it. After all these years of sitting you can bet the bearings are probably rusted and frozen especially if the oil wasn't changed and water often gets into the crankcase. These old cars are lots of fun to restore if you can find the parts. They made a lot of these, and parts are somewhat interchangable from 1949-1953 as they used the same engine. The engines can easily be rebuilt by a mechanic that understands flat head 8 cylinder motors. As a kid our family had a brand new '52 & '53 Pontiacs. They were nice cars. And remember the Pontiac was built on the same chassis as the Chevrolet, so some of those parts might work for you. You need to keep in mind that the value of one of these cars is probably around $20-25K fully restored if you're building it to sell. My classic is a 1941 Lincoln Zephyr custom 2 door coupe fully restored. Lots of fun getting it to it's current stage, and you always tweak them after restoration. Good luck on yours! Rayhi ray, some corrections are needed for your post, very few parts will interchange between the 1949 pontiac straight eight and the 1950 to 1954 pontiac straight eight group. the only changes inside the 1950 to 1954 268 cubic inch straight eight were cylinder heads that were interchangeable but had different compression ratio's, also the 1954 engines had a slightly larger intake manifold and larger throttle bores in the carburetor, causing a gain of five more horsepower. also the u.s.a. built pontiacs did not share the same chassis as the chevy had, the pontiac chassis was much better built and stronger, almost identical to the oldsmobile chassis. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) I received a few parts that needed replacing.R.H. Front fender molding (NOS Stainless) = $72R.H. Front curved molding (NOS Chrome) = $74L.H. Rear corner bumper guard (NOS Chrome) = $82Running total:$6857+ 72+ 74+ 82--------$7085 Edited October 3, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Same exact colors, same year, same body style as the one I restored 22 years ago! These are wonderful cars, well built, good engines, "built to last 100,000 miles" as their sales brochures said in 1952. When mine was done, I drove it for a few months. Would give almost anything to have it back now, but I had to sell it to finance the next restoration. It would get an honest 21-22 m.p.g. on the highway at 60 mph, and was capable of a lot more than that. That's with a full load of parts in the trunk, 8 cylinders, Hydra-Matic transmission, full-sized six-passenger car, with no electronics, that every corner service station mechanic could repair. Tell me, now, what progress have we made in the last 60 years??I don't think you could pick a nicer Pontiac to restore, than this one.Pete PhillipsLeonard, Texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Thanks for the input Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pm5471 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I have a 1950 catalina that needs a full restoration and finding your page has been a great thing for me. I am disabled and have not started to work on the car yet. I have been waiting for such a posting as yours for a long time. Great work you are doing to such a fine car.pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I am almost finished unpacking boxes at the new house ... This came in the mail today ... $92 ... running total ... $7177. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 56Tbird Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 This will be a sweet ride when done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) I finaly got the shop cleared out. I moved the antique Ski Doos to another out building. I will also have some room there to store car parts as I dismantle them.I got a few friends and we pushed her inside, then we lifted the back end and moved it latteraly to get it into the right position, so I will be able to work around both sides of the car,I also got the front clip inside. When I finish dismantling the clip, the parts will be stored in the out building awaiting restoration.I will have plenty to do this coming winter ... Edited October 16, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 good looking area to work in, those trunk lucite emblems are hard to find in nos condition. i have two for my 53 custom catalina. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Understood Charles. 52 and 53 are not the same ... ain't that a shame ... but I did find an NOS one for the rear.I might try my hand at restoring the original one for the front if I can't find an NOS front piece ... I am amazed at the good condition of most parts on this car. It is 62 years old after all! This is a pic of the headlight bucket area ... hardly any rust to speak of! Edited October 17, 2012 by GaWajn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Those little bits and pieces make the car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I dismantled the front clip today ... no real surprises ... The inner fenders were riveted to the fenders. I had to drill them out to get them apart. I hope i'll be able to find some replacement rivets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GaWajn Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Got the trunk off ... and starting to clean it up ... There is surface rust under the felt ... It needs to be clean ... but I don't know how I will be able to get under the braces ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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