$2000 for 1959 MGA Roadster

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

I PUT THIS ALSO IN THE BUYING AND SELLING FORUM AS WELL. Admins feel free to delete one, i just did not know where to best put this post.

Okay, i am pretty sure i am making a good deal here. But i wish to be sure anyway..... I have found in my aged blind neighbors garage under a pile of house hold garbage, what i believe to be a gem......

I am a young woman, who has never restored a car myself, but i am thinking on jumping in feet first on this one.

I keep trying to post pictures, but unfortunately the up-loader seems to be encountering issues each time.

so i will try and try again.

Its rough but not a basket case i imagine.

It has body rust but only near the edges and has all parts.... it ran when the old guy drove it into his garage.

I noticed it has the knock of Dayton wire spoke wheels.....I believe this is a good thing? Seems to me Dayton wire wheels are sought after?

I am pretty sure this car is worth more, it has some body damage two bad dents to right front and back fender where the side of a barn fell on it.

I asked him about the car and he told me that he had loved the car but stopped driving when he went blind bout 20 years back..... said in the meantime it had not been treated as it should have..... but told me everything is still there, complete.

I asked him what he would take for it and he said bout 2,000. i said i would take it.

The car needs a total restoration, right down to the bare frame, but my thought is hey everything is there might as well go for it.

But am i wrong to think this car is worth much more even in the condition it is in?

[Guest longman]

Hi,

Firstly I love your handle, great name seems to sum me up to a tee.

Secondly, sounds like a good price. Without seeing detailed pics though it's hard to say. Most MGA's for sale have wire wheels on them and range in prices depending on condition and standard of restoration.

If it runs and drives, all the better. I say go for it if you're after a project that might make some $$ back in the future, they're nice little cars.

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

I dont know after 20 if it will start, i have not tried yet...fingers crossed of course. wouldnt that be great....

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

here ya go...finally figured out the pictures.

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

the front bumper is behind the other side of the car and the hood is there as well. the missing headlights are in a box within the body of the car.

[Rawja]

Errrr.... May I ask how much you are comfortable spending on the restoration of this car?

It looks to me to be quite a project you are taking on.

[West Peterson]

It'd be interesting to see if there's a surprise under the hood... i.e. Twin Cam.

In reference to what Roger just asked, my advice would be to clean it up and get it running first, before you restore it... brakes, et al. Drive it until you fall in love with it... not just physically, but in the way it drives. Obviously, in its current condition, you can really enjoy the heck out of it without worrying about getting dings and chips. "Drive it like you hate it" .... if you can do that with an M.G.

If you are planning on paying someone else to restore it, you will undoubtedly be upside down in no time. Be careful in picking out a restorer. If you're planning on doing it yourself, you'll still end up with a ton of money into it. Correct materials are expensive... chrome is really expensive, as is paint.

Welcome to the hobby, and welcome to the AACA forum. You'll find lots of help here. Join the AACA, and definitely join an M.G. club. There is an indefinite amount of experience to rely upon.

Again, fall in love with it first. That way you won't get discouraged about the amount of money it will take to restore it.

[DAVE A]

Impulsive;

Sports cars in general and MGs in particular are hard NOT to fall in love with. It was a little over 35 years ago that I bought my first MG, and it was while working on my Midget one afternoon that I discovered Crosleys. I agree with West, get the car running and drive it a little if you can before restoring it. It will bind you to the car and make the time and labor of restoration more bearable. I also agree that memberhip in an MG club will be an immense aid to you in restoration. Please don't let anyone dissuade you from trying the restoration yourself. You will find it is amazing what you can do with a little guidance from a knoledgeable friend and commitment to the project. Also, don't be discouraged by people who will tell you how much it costs. Spread over time, it becomes more bearable. You must be prepared, however, to spend a rather tidy sum to restore an MGA to concours condition. I will say, having worked on one, that the results are worth it and they retain their value well. Also, as noted, if you decide to have someone else do the work, it will be even more costly. MGs are fun cars and the A's and series before them are quite valuable on the market and a good investment. Good luck with it and please keep us informed of your progress.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Go for it /girl. you will always be sorry if you don't.

Ben

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Congrats. MGAs have rapidly become pretty desirable in recent years, even more so in many cases than the more traditional but a little less usable "T series" cars. You will hear a lot about reliability - particularly electricals, but these cars can be made just as reliable as an American car of the same era. They are not overly complex and the parts situation/assistance network/people who know these cars is pretty good. Had a TR-6 for a long time and an MGA for a week (many years ago - long story short, it was a project like this and I got a little scared, wish I held onto it) - so I cannot relate particulars on that car but I am somewhat familliar with them.. Price seems fair but there is a good amount of work there to be sure. If they are decent, the wheels alone and knock off set up is worth a good part of the purchase price. If you search the "buy sell" forum here you will see some MGA projects that have been listed in the last year for comparison purposes.

Not to discourage you in any way but the one thing I would suggest is that you ask yourself what you want to be doing for the next few years. If you want the experience/rewoard of restoring this car, go for it. There is a lot to be said for being the person responsible for bringing back a car, and knowing just what it took to do it, and it is a great hobby. If you envision yourself cruising down the road, top down in the evening this June, or if you plan on having it done professionally, and are not tied to this car, I would recomend you consider a completed car. This way, you can finance it if you have to, and there is a lot of them on the market. It will be cheaper in the end. Depends on how important this particular car is to you. Just for your info - these guys have a nice selection:

http://www.newenglandclassics.com/showroom/MG/

Join an MG club (and AACA, but in this case, def. an MG club is top priority) before doing anything else. That way, you get access to help, advice, perhaps local parts, AND if you decide you ever want to sell, that is your best avenue. Check this out if you have not found it already:

http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/

Also, the best place to post your progress is in the "our cars and restoration projects" sub forum - also a great place for discussion and advice.

Good Luck with it!

Edited December 9, 2011 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

In my 18 or so years of judging I have judged only 2 or 3 cars that scored a perfect 400 points. One was an MGA. Sure it will cost money to restore but so does playing golf or any other hobby. Look at the car as a savings account with a variable interest rate. 10 years from now it may be worth more or it may be worth less than you invest but the fun you have will be the divident. Go for it I say.

[Restorer32]

I mean dividend of course.

[padgett]

Either my first or second car (had both at the same time -I remember thinking back then that the tires on both looked too skinny) was a 1955 MGA, black with red and that sounds like a super garage find. .

OTOH do you want a project that needs everything and may take a lot of time/money/effort or just to clean it up, get the engine running, and flip it for enough to buy something nicer ? It depends on whether you really like MGs.

BTW the wire wheels look like factory options (factory wheels would be marked "undo") and I *think* the TC came with disk wheels (at the time British wire wheels flexed to much for serious racing - be more likely to find a Judson under the hood than a TC.

Must admit that I'd personally prefer an early FIAT 124 Spyder with roll up windows and a one-hand top rather than an erector set but then think cars are for driving.

[1937hd45]

There isn't much out there for $2,000 in the Vintage Sports Car world, looks like a good investment, if there aren't a lot of rust issues. Join an MG club and start collection the parts catalogs from all the MG parts houses along with the restioration manuals. The wheels look original and are Rudge-Whitworth not Daytons.

[Dave@Moon]

Welcome to the "lbc" ("little British car") end of the hobby! :cool: The MGA is one of the most desirous sports cars out there, and you can tell it is because it is the one MG that Triumph guys (I have 2 TR6s.) don't ever denigrate. (There is a bit of a friendly rivalry there!) It is almost by consensus the best looking post-war sports car, at least from Great Britain if not all of Europe (Alfa guys may disagree:)).

Two must have books for the novice MGA restorer are Original MGA: The Restorer's Guide ( http://www.amazon.com/Original-MGA-Anders-Ditlev-Clausager/dp/0760314500 ) and MG Restoration Guide ( Amazon.com: MGA Restoration Guide (Restoration Performance) (9781855203020): Malcolm Green: Books ). Both are commonly available on eBay and other online sources.

Your major new parts suppliers for MGs are Victoria British ( MG, Triumph, Austin Healey, Sunbeam Tiger - Victoria British, Ltd. ), British Parts Northwest ( British Parts Northwest Parts For Austin Healey,Jaguar,MGB, Triumph,TR3-TR4A,TR6,Spitfire,TR7 TR8 ), and Moss Motors ( MG, Triumph, Austin-Healey, Jaguar, Classic British Car Restoration Parts & Accessories - Moss Motors, Ltd. ). Their catalogs (both online and print versions) will be something you'll soon become intimately familiar with.

There are also MANY sources for NOS and used parts, some better than others, and I join the others in strongly suggesting you join whatever MG/lbc car clubs are applicable. Those people can guide you better than anyone as to the best places to find the things you're going to need. NAMGAR ( North American MGA Register (NAMGAR) - MGA Classic Car Club ) is the major national club, but there are many regional clubs that will be important to become acquainted with for local information ( MGA clubs and registers ). There is no substitute for local networking on a sports car restoration, and I think you'll find most groups to be among the most tight-knit car clubs around!

Enjoy and have fun!

Edited December 9, 2011 by Dave@Moon
typo (see edit history)

[keiser31]

I would have it in my garage already for $2000.00. I had three of them and LOVED them.

Edited September 6, 2012 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

To Dave's point, and not to shortchange my many wonderful local AACA and other club friends, but the BEST club experience we had was the Triumph club years ago largely due to a great balance between showing, driving and tech. Very much a couples club which for us was nice, my wife was as involved as I was. Also, not a lot of club politics, and a very helpful group. I can't say for sure but I think Dave is saying the same thing here...

Aside from a Ford Model "A" another MG or TR is one of the few cars I would consider restoring myself largely due to simplicity, ease of parts and the actual size of the car - easier to dissasemble right in the garage...

In terms of project cars, I also agree not much out there anymore at that price, as I have been kind of following for a while due to a little extra space in the garage... Condition of body and frame is make or break, really and will make thousands of dollars difference in overall restoration costs no matter which route you take. Minor rust around the edges as you say is no biggie, but frame rust, or major body rust, I would avoid.

These (MGA, MGB, TR series ) are among the most fun cars to drive and IMO, a great compromise between a car from a truly different era and modern driveability.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[Guest 32RockneRoadster]

REMEMBER the absolute worst thing about restoring a car is finding all the "little things". I see in the pics, all the dash knobs are there and small trim pieces, the WHEELS.

I WILL say first that the reason I sold my 1975 TR-6 is because IN THE RAIN, I was going around a turn and braked, the front wheels locked up, and the car kept going straight and I rear ended another car! I was SO UPSET, it was the last british car I owned for SURE! the if that is true, then why is it I have a MG TF now?

BUT the flip side is look what happened to the little Austin Healy 3000 Mk3 ! OVER 100K for a mint one today, and who would have known in 1983 when I could have bought a MINT one for 3K from an original owner! I LOVED the car, I just didnt know the rest of America would fall in love with them.

Well guess what all the people are looking for that can't afford the Austin Healy MK 3000!

Although the MGA has no roll up windows, = GRAB THAT CAR FOR 2k! YOU CAN ALWAYS FLIP IT FOR TWICE WHAT YOU PAID ON A BUY IT NOW ON EBAY!

As for restoring it yourself and making chaged to the electrical down the road? Say "Bye Bye" to ANYTHING LUCAS, on that car, and say HELLO BOSCH to anything left behind where Lucas was.

Go to MG, Triumph, Austin-Healey, Jaguar, Classic British Car Restoration Parts & Accessories - Moss Motors, Ltd. to get some prices on parts.

[Guest Snopack]

Make sure that it has a good title for the car.

The state of Washington is real picky about titles. I know I live here.

Lost or damaged titles can be a real pain to replace if your not the person

whose name is on the title. There is a way to get it done if there is not a title,

but is is a pain and takes 3 years to get a title in your name.

I also have a 62 MGA and will say it's real fun to drive.

John

[Dave@Moon]

Also, not a lot of club politics, and a very helpful group. I can't say for sure but I think Dave is saying the same thing here....

Absolutely we're saying the same thing. I had one very bad experience with a local Triumph club 20 years ago, where club politics were indeed a serious issue. However every other lbc club I've ever belonged to has been remarkably free from such interference and stupidity.

One thing I forgot to emphasize is the use of local, generic British car clubs. Most areas have a club or two of owners of various marques. Here in Cincinnati the local British car club ( http://www.bccgc.com/ ) is an excellent resource, and a great social group as well. Many areas have similar groups. Often these are the people who hold annual "British Car Day" shows, and they are usually open and welcomming to all marques and new members.

I don't know where "implusive" is from (I notice the MG has old Washington (state) plates though), but I'd strongly recommend her joining any local club that will have her!

[Restorer32]

British sports cars are an acquired taste. It helps if you are a bit of a masochist to begin with. First car I ever actually paid for with my own money was a Bug Eyed Sprite. We moved up to MGBs and wore out 3 of them (not that big a trick) as daily drivers. Never owned an MGA but one of the first cars we restored was an MGA coupe. I say go for it! After a while you'll hardly notice that ever growing oil stain on your garage floor.

[sfair]

I will have to disagree with the "get it running and take it for a spin" people.

That car looks a little too far along for that to happen at a reasonable cost, and I do not think that there is much to be learned SAFELY by that tack.

If you get it running, that will not tell you much as the engine will need a rebuild, anyways.

Same goes with "all" of the running gear.

The best bet with a car like this is to go in with the idea that it needs "everything" and if your bank account can handle the expense, drag it home and dive in!!!

If in the process, you come across something that does not need replacing, then that is a bonus. Much better to deduct from the bottom line than to add to it.

[Terry Bond]

Welcome to the forum and AACA - you did join right? Lots of great advice and note that everyone thinks the MGA is a great choice. In fact, my wife Susan will be very glad to hear of another MG-loving lady! She has two MGBs - one in the pic taken this year at Hershey, the other currently under restoration. They are fun to drive, easy to maintain, easy to find parts for, and fairly inexpensive to own. There is of course a lot of work between what you've got and where you want it to be, but the fun of it is getting to know those who share the same disease! As was mentioned before, join some clubs - AACA of course, local MG club if you can, and learn a lot before you begin to dismantle it. You'll learn the best sources for parts, who can best help work on things you can't handle yourself, and most importantly of all, what fun you can have along the way and when the car is back on the road again.

I like West Petersons advice too - we have several club members locally who have hauled home projects - MGBs and As and spent some time getting them running before tearing into them. These days you'd be amazed at how big a crowd gathers around a fresh outa-the-barn vehicle like that.

Get some good books (are you listening Santa?) and spend some of those cold winter evenings reading and learning. Take some time to decide what you want to do with it (concourse restoration, driver, etc.) and then proceed. As my good friend Pat Thorpe said when asked how he managed to run a great national meet up in New York - "I got by with a little help from my friends." You'll find that the case here too. Keep in touch and update us on your project.

Safety-Fast!

Terry

[keiser31]

Is that MGA in your garage, yet???

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I agree with sfair that it seems unlikely you will be able to "service it up and enjoy" before deciding on next steps it is also cheaper than any recent cars I have seen recently that could be driven with minimal servicing. Good news is if your ultimate goal is to do a full restoration that means paying for a "lower level driver" doesn't make sense. In other words, why pay for a fair to poor interior, and tired mechanicals, etc. if your intent is to completely replace these anyway? If I were going for a full on frame off resto, this would appeal to me more than a $4 - 5K car that needs it all anyway but is just a few years and miles from looking like this one.

A "driver quality" MGA that won't dissapoint you with constant issues will run low teens, and a decent restoration low 20s and up depending on quality. After thinking on this one a bit, it seems to me you can pay 4 - 5K for a slightly better one but you likely won't get twice the car.

As West points out paint and chrome are big expenses BUT repro parts (thinking chrome trim) for these cars are plentiful - so you can just replace the parts for less than a chrome job alone on the same part. Another plus. So I guess it goes back to the rust, if minimal go for it!

Confused yet, Impulsive?

Well, all are trying to be helpful here, and give you food for thought!!

For what it's worth as well, while I would never confuse a car for an investment plan, I see the price curve continuing on the MGA. XKEs and AH cars are pretty pricey now, these are next, followed by early the MGB and TR-6 cars. Increasing gas prices, coupled with all the attributes noted above will help keep demand up. Ever attend a vintage race? Kind of cool to see the same make and model as your weekend toy being raced just like the old days!

[Steve_Mack_CT]

BTW - if anyone has a T-series MG in this condition and price range, please let me know...

[keiser31]

On second thought....maybe it won't be worth the $2,000.00. Now....where is it?

[Restorer32]

Presence or absence of major rust would be the deciding factor for me.

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

Hey guys, I try to answere all of your questions. Yes i have the car now gonna move it next week. The man i bought it from is my Neighbor....(a real good guy)

I am located in the state of washington....near the seattle tacoma area.

I have money to put into it, my estimate of my financial capabilities is i can do this for 6-9 thousand dollars into this baby. Most chrome other than the wire wheels are in pretty good condition. I did not see any heavy pitting. Some pieces will need to be re plated. costly yes!

The body work, no heavy rust, dents and dings could yes run me into the ground with my finances but!!! my dad tells me my uncle owes him a huge favor. My uncle is a master body repair and painter. And my dad will get him to do it for next to nothing..... to good to be true for some....but not in my family.

So the body and paint is taken care of. I just didnt want to buy the car for or than it was worth. should i have haggled? ect. i now think 2000$ is reasonable for the condition. thanx guys for that piece of mind!

I helped my father fix up OUR 1939 packard. it has this year been signed over to me, this picture attached is one of our progress pictures. cant find a more recent picture sadly. It has come much farther along in its restoration process. I am thinking on selling it to fund this project comfortably and help get the job done faster.

This is my first lone project but i have been helping my dad restore cars since i was old enough to hand him a screw driver. I admit though even with my past experience it was not me alone making the choices, my dad always there guiding my work. Its a little daunting to now be ummm should i say on my own.

Thanx again for the advice. I am sure i will be frequenting this forum in the next few years.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

So the truth comes out!! You have some automotive background, support and my guess (didn't initially post this) that you knew your stuff a bit based on your wire wheel comments was right on!!

But why on earth would you sell that nice old Packard!!? I know, you may like it but you will probably LOVE your new MGA, congrats.

First, I think $2,000 is fair. You mentioned your neighbor is aged and blind, well while he will have no use for it you paid what he was asking, so no one can say you took advantage. In some cases, haggling over a few hundred dollars is irrelavent, and I am thinking this is one. Know you both made out ok in this transaction.

Second, if you MUST part with the packard, you may be able to sell it right on this forum, give it a shot, looks like a pretty good one. If you don't have an idea already, feel free to PM with details if you want any advice on pricing.

Congrats on your early Christmas present to yourself!

[DAVE A]

Impulsive;

I love my sports cars, but I am going to have to weigh in on the "sell the Packard" issue. DON'T!!!! If you can possibly afford to keep it and do the MG please consider keeping it. I can't tell you how many times I have thought about buying a "big" car as a contrast to my little ones. I am sure I will someday. You have the advantage of already having one. Please keep it at least until you have finished the MG. You may find that you don't like the sportscar (doubtful) as well as the Packard, and if you've already sold it, you may have regrets. Plus the Packard is a piece of your father you will be able to keep all your life.

As far as haggling on the MG, I agree with Steve, it was a fair price, it was the man's asking price, and it in the long run will represent a small portion of your total investment. Why do anything that may cause regrets??

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

I agree on not wanting to sell the Packard. too many good memories.

I ordered my dad to buy it at the portland swap meat. It looked like so much fun to restore, and it has been fun. But it is so big and heavy, and doesn't break worth a dam!!! I am afraid i am going to get in an accident and kill someone every time i drive it. Those older break systems combined with the sheer bulk and weight of the vehicle makes it real scary for me a 24 year old, 5 ft 1in. I think it might be a safety hazzard for me. lol

Also along with that in my home i have a storage issue. would not wish to have my neighborhood house to start resembling some sort of scrap metal yard! lol

So yes i will be considering selling, but first lemi paint it. i dont really wanna sell it as a project car... All new interior as well as all body work has been finished, chrome is some what pitted, but not far gone. there is still work left to be done on the Packard and i intend on finishing it. My father and i started this together and i must see it through to the finish.

Ps the Packard runs like a champ! what a beast!

[Guest Bob Call]

About the wire wheels. I don't know the manufacturer but I suspect it was not Dayton. The MGA had disc wheels as atandard and the wires were options. I have a 54 Austin Healy. My Healy originally came with 48 spoke wheels. These are OK for sedate boulevard driving. I have replaced them with later AH 3000 wires which have 72 spokes and are way stronger. Original finish for the wires was silver colored enamal. The knockoffs should be labeled UNDO and TIGHTEN with approiate directional arrows. Healy and MG used the same wire wheels.

[West Peterson]

The Packard is so big and heavy, and doesn't break worth a dam!!! I am afraid i am going to get in an accident and kill someone every time i drive it. Those older break systems combined with the sheer bulk and weight of the vehicle makes it real scary for me a 24 year old, 5 ft 1in. I think it might be a safety hazzard for me. lol

If the brakes are set up properly, you should not have any problem. The car is not all that heavy. It looks to be either a Six cylinder or a model 120 Eight. Braking should be the least of your worries, except in an emergency. Even then, it's not really the brakes that would prevent you from stopping fast, it would be the bias ply tires.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

West, everyone knows white walls stop MUCH better than blackwalls.

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

127 inch 8 cyliner its 127 inch wheel base,originally a touring sedan but has has been converted to a derhan. Packard quit making a formal sedan round 1935 or 1937. Packard did darhan coach works and their did custom jobs. I may need to work and mod the breaks....

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Impulsive, interesting comments on the conversion. Derham was a coachbuilding company, is the conversion work documented, or done later on to resemble a formal sedan?

When you can, would you post some pictures? Sorry to go off topic, but that would be interesting.

Thanks

[Terry Bond]

Steve - you mentioned racing - yes, another aspect to all this. We just got back from the vintage races out at VIR (Virginia International Raceway). Spent an entire weekend there. Got to take the MGB round the track a couple of times and wished we had the chance to try it at speed. Still fun to watch all those other cars in full race trim being run like they were originally. A fantastic thing to see. I told Susan we're not so far along into restoring the other GT that we couldn't go full-race. Still waiting for her feedback on that!

Terry

[West Peterson]

Packard didn't stop building a formal sedan until after 1942. You shouldn't need to modify the brakes, just get them working properly.

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

Impulsive, interesting comments on the conversion. Derham was a coachbuilding company, is the conversion work documented, or done later on to resemble a formal sedan?

When you can, would you post some pictures? Sorry to go off topic, but that would be interesting.

Thanks

Yes i will post some pictures when i can. In the garage now with things all cluttered around it. When i can i will pull it out and snap some pics.

NO! the conversion was NOT documented, cause we did it ourselves bout 4 years or more back. We did it cause we thought about making it for weddings and formal events. No no longer the plan. It was done to optimize a different business option not to get more on the car on re-sale. I dont regret the change, it was WELL DONE. The pictured shared is the before we did the conversion.