Sandblasting Media.. choices?

[37 Pontiac SilverStreak]

Team,

I have searched the forums looking for advice on sandblasting media.. as I am new to the restoration projects (IT guy with new '37 hobby) I wanted to ask you guys n' gals about your suggestions on what type of media I should use..

I thought about...

a) Soda.. $40/50lb bag.. and I can get adapter for my sand blaster... But don't need it at this time..

Walnut shells, (cheaper) were the top suggestion, but wondered if it would strip my '37 to bare necessities.. unsure about paint jobs in past and how much bondo is on her..

c) glass beads was suggested but leaves a glossy finish that may hinder priming?

d) silca sand or Pool Filter Sand.. leaves residue..

what are your thoughts? As a beginner blaster, i would like to do a good job, I have the space, Blaster and Compressor.. just need the advice

here's my project: Tavalite's 1937 Pontiac Silver Streak | Restoration Project

Trevor...

[auburnseeker]

Soda works great on paint and can be used to blast plastic parts carefully if they aren't real soft. Good for cleaning paint off plastic parts someone decided to paint. It also works great for cleaning carbuerators and other potmetal parts back to the factory finish. It works well on cadmium plated parts to clean residue, paint or light corrosion off. It doesn't work for any kind of rust removal though.

I use sand for blasting anything that requires rust removal or in my cabinet for continual use where it is being constantly reused.

The Soda is a one shot deal and can't be recycled.

I haven't had much experience with anything else as these 2 seem to do all I want them to.

They both leave a residue though which easily cleans off.

Just my 2 cents and experience so far.

[old car fan]

Soda is a mess,works great,but keep in mind ,it has to be neutralized

[buick5563]

Soda doesn't take rust off. I used to use glass bead in my cabinet, but have been using silicon oxide recently to clean more aggressively. If you are going to blast a full car, they sell sandblasting sand that is cheaper than any sand you can buy at home depot. All of these medias should be used cautiously for your parts AND your lungs. Walnuts are worthless for anything other than electrical parts. Plastic is good for doing entire cars also, but I don't know if you can buy it unless you are a contractor with the proper equipment.

[Bhigdog]

For rust, scale, and paint silica sand will give you the most bang for the buck. Use XXX grade or finer. The draw back with silica is the dust is harmful to the lungs (silicosis). Just as effective but at a higher price, about $15/100#, is crushed slag. Around here one trade name is Black Beauty. No silica so no silicosis but wear a GOOD dust filter mask anyway. Be carefull blasting sheet metal or it will warp all to hell. Blast at an angle and keep moving the nozzle................Bob

[buick5563]

I have used Black Beauty in my cabinet. Cleans super fast...but it will tear up your gun nozzles. I recently got two fifty pound bags of aluminum oxide from Harbor Freight for about twenty bucks each. That is what I am currently using. Less dusty than actual sand.

[Restorer32]

We have used sandblasting sand for 30 years. Use it a couple times on wheels and frames and chassis parts until it turns to dust then use it on bodies and fenders etc. If done carefully warpage is not a concern. We would never blast anything that hasn't been totally disassembled. That sand gets EVERYWHERE, which you will quickly realize when you shower after a session of blasting.

[R Walling]

I also use Black beauty, I use the fine which is very agressive. I found that you must use a little larger tip than with sand.

I used to use sand but it leaves crushed sand on the metal that must be rubbed off before painting. I have tried to re-use sand but found out that it is worn out and takes more air just to move the extra sand required and works 1/2 as well.

Regulating the media is most important, as to much media will slow down the process and make large clouds of dust in the area. Adjust the sand flow so that you can't see it comeing out of the nozzel.

I bought a carbide tip for my unit and it seens to last forever. I have litterly passed over 40 tons of Black Beauty thru it and it shows no wear.

As for warping sheetmetal, I recently blasted a badly surface rusted a 55 Chrysler fender by keeping away about 2' on an angle moving very quickly all around the surface. There was no warping. (The unit that I used is a 350lb blaster with a 5/16" tip with about 100lbs pressure)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Warping should never be an issue with any media if the pressure is correct, the nozzle being used is correct and used at the correct angle, and the person doing the blasting doesn't try to make up for bad set up or using the wrong media for the job by staying in one place way too long, or long enough to create heat sufficient to result in warping. Novices tend to think it is necessary to go to bare metal before moving on to another area. Wrong! It's somewhat like painting in reverse. The paint went on in layers, take it off the same way. Several passes are usually required to achieve the best results.

No blasting media is going to effectively deal with major rust issues that should be cut out and replaced with fresh metal.

Jim

Edited April 14, 2011 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

It isn't the heat that causes warping. It is the "shot peening" effect that stretches the metal. We have blasted everything from dump trucks to Duesenbergs over the years and all it takes is care and attention to what you are doing. Take a flat test panel and blast it. You'll quickly learn what not to do.

[Bhigdog]

It isn't the heat that causes warping. It is the "shot peening" effect that stretches the metal. We have blasted everything from dump trucks to Duesenbergs over the years and all it takes is care and attention to what you are doing. Take a flat test panel and blast it. You'll quickly learn what not to do.

BINGO!...............................Bob

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

It isn't the heat that causes warping. It is the "shot peening" effect that stretches the metal. We have blasted everything from dump trucks to Duesenbergs over the years and all it takes is care and attention to what you are doing. Take a flat test panel and blast it. You'll quickly learn what not to do.

I wouldn't argue about the "shot peening" affect, though I will say that you definitely do not want to immediately touch with your bare skin an area which has just been subjected to blasting long enough to distort the metal.

Jim

[Restorer32]

We pretty much paid the rent with sandblasting our first 10 years or so in business. Nasty, dirty work but somehow very satisfying. One of the few areas in restoration where you see immediate results.

[bigaadams]

my two cents here and as I just did a bit of sandblasting this weekend I will relate my experience. First off, commercial sandblasting usually is done at high pressure and high sand flow thus the results are good removal of paint, rust and good metal..highly prone to warping due to the heat at this flow and pressure. HOWEVER not all sandblasting is damaging. I currently do my blasting at home in a cost effective less messy manner. IT is also might I add cost effective to set up originally. The 40 or 100 lbs pressure pot currently selling at some restorer supply houses or Harbor Freight is more than adequate for the at home DIYer. I do not recommend them for commercial enterprises. Anyway set this up with a back board of wood, less bounce and a large tarp to collect the grit for reuse..average recyle is three times and still cut good. Silica sand leaves no more residue than anyother media and most of the dust that fall back is the actual material being removed from the substrate. I use .030 grit that is locally purchased from my sandblast supplier at approx 3.25 a bag of 50 lb grit. I set my pot up to be pressureized at 50lbs of air pressure and flow I control at the base of the pot and not at the nozzle. If you shut off the flow of sand at the nozzle the sand will continue to accumulate in the hose and you have a great loss of media anytime you wish to restart. Cutting it off at the tank will allow the air to flow and clear the hose completely...then if you wish to shut the valve ok...but open it prior to opening the sand flow..you will thank me later. I blasted the front and rear gravel panels on my Plymouth Suburban in short time and reclaimed over 50% of my sand so the cost was less than 3.25 cents. Though you have sandblasted the metal and it does look clean..do not trust you eyes to this as being ready...I highly recommend that you next do a complete acid wash of the blasted surface with phosphoric acid..once it has been able to neutralize microscopic rust in the pits you can now neuatralize this with a water bath..air dry..now you will likely see a bit of flash rust discoloration, no biggy use a cloth damp with the acid to just quickly erase this flash rust..let this panel dry real well..then just prior to your priming, go over the panel with a 3M pad, wipe with solvent and apply your primer. This entire process is not that labor intensive and will be the best bang for the buck overall to my findings.

Edited April 18, 2011 by bigaadams
add picture (see edit history)

[37 Pontiac SilverStreak]

Thanks, appreciate all the feedback... I will be using a 5gal (small pressure blaster) with a 30 gal compressor (6 cfm @90psi).. I am in no rush to complete .. have have the setup ready to go..

One more question folks... after blasting, how long do I have until I should primer the car? It will be kept dry, and sound inside the garage, humidity and moisture not an issue.. and... what type of primer for body fill/fiberglass and bare metal?

again, thank you all for helping me get started!

[bigaadams]

depends on storage and humidity...the moisture is the key element to rust.....I have a panel that has been sandblasted 5 years on one side only and not the back..still daisy fresh but admit it is stored in a good dry shelter...if you use the good metal prep solution that etches and also has a protective film..you shol dnot have to sweat immediate coat..if however you do not use this method..I suggest you paint real quick with a media deisgned to neutralize as you paint...

[Guest Albert]

I like using the Black beauty as well, and as others have said sand will get into everything,, have been running about 90lbs pressure at the tip with a 3/8 nozzel which i find good for frames, but cut the pressure for body parts..

[37 Pontiac SilverStreak]

Great Feedback!

I'm still a little lost on this "black beauty" and if its safe / legal in Canada.. I have a guy (pool guy) who can get me filter sand for pools to use at $6/bag..

I'll keep my eyes open and read up more on blasting.. so far this thread has given me alot to chew on and very much appreciated!

I also stumbled upon this link, and a video as well...

AircooledTech's Tools-On-The-Cheap - DIY Soda Blaster

Ep 16: DIY soda blasting – build your own rig! at Garage Night

Cheers..

[Bhigdog]

Black beauty is a crushed slag product, I think from steel mills. It looks like crushed black glass. Since it's a freshly crushed product it's sharp and cuts rapidly. It also does not contain silica so silicosis is not a problem but of course you still REALLY need to wear a good dust mast. Those paper cup masks are not a GOOD dust mask. If you do use sand you should spring for blast media sand. It's been freshly crushed, is sharp and graded for size. ............Bob

[37 Pontiac SilverStreak]

...but of course you still REALLY need to wear a good dust mast. Those paper cup masks are not a GOOD dust mask. ........Bob

LOL, no worries, I can do Alien autopsy's with the gear I have ready

I'll do some tests and ask alot, when going to my blast supplier.. the car has thick metal so I'm not worried about warping / heat etc..

I will blast with care, and make sure I have a smooth finish..

[37 Pontiac SilverStreak]

anyone on the forum (in Ontario, Canada) know where I can get this black beauty? I'm 1 hr north of Toronto

I think I found a "clue", lol.. coal slag.. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200136674_200136674

Edited April 19, 2011 by CDN224 (see edit history)

[Guest Albert]

Tavalite,, I'am in Ontario, the last Black beauty i got was from a company in Oshawa and is produced in Hamilton.. it comes in 40 and 80 grit, I have 150lb pot running an air compressor for Jack hammers which put out 210 CFM at 120lbs,, and i use a resperator for painting, with prefilters,, as the dust gets every where,, Idealy have a change of clothes handy in the back shed, to put on before you try to go into the house to have a shower,, or the other half may be a little pi$$ed cleaning up the sand dust.. as you can see from the mess of me,, Princess auto has the sand blast hoods fyi

[37 Pontiac SilverStreak]

Tavalite,, I'am in Ontario, the last Black beauty i got was from a company in Oshawa and is produced in Hamilton.. it comes in 40 and 80 grit, I have 150lb pot running an air compressor for Jack hammers which put out 210 CFM at 120lbs,, and i use a resperator for painting, with prefilters,, as the dust gets every where,, Idealy have a change of clothes handy in the back shed, to put on before you try to go into the house to have a shower,, or the other half may be a little pi$$ed cleaning up the sand dust.. as you can see from the mess of me,, Princess auto has the sand blast hoods fyi

LOL, yep... thanks for the post.. my job is smaller, but the mess will be the same. Ill investigate the beauty supply..

[Friartuck]

A point that hasn't been emphasized enough is the dryness of the media you choose. It must be bone dry, Arizona desert sand dry, dryer than a dry martini, etc.... There is nothing more frustrating than have to stop, pull off the hood, remove pressure from the can, remove nozzle, and clear out the clog or blogage due to moist sand (about 10 minutes of down time). Same applies to small pebbles mixed in the sand bag, so double sifting is highly recommended. I actually prep the sand by putting it in a stainless steel kitchen pan and place it on the BBQ grill and heat it, which drives out the moisture. The sand should flow through your fingers and the canister and hose must also be dry. Adding a water seperater right at the canister also traps moisture as prolonged blasting usually has the compressor heating the air and then condensing on the cooler air hose. I also think you can be as successful operating at 40 Lbs than running at 100-120 Lbs of pressure.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Friartuck
Added text. (see edit history)

[bigaadams]

amen on the dry sand...and dry air..drain your tank good prior to start...the blue thing on my unit is a water seperator...do use them..get a good screened funnel if recycling your mediallI have had to clear clogs before ..the worst one was when the weld slag on the inside of the tank while being made broke loose...like to never have got that chunk of metal out of that small hole..does not make for a fun day....

I also have gotten to wherewhen finished I remove the sand from the pot if going back dormant for a period of time..

[Guest dokks6t9]

my two cents here and as I just did a bit of sandblasting this weekend I will relate my experience. First off, commercial sandblasting usually is done at high pressure and high sand flow thus the results are good removal of paint, rust and good metal..highly prone to warping due to the heat at this flow and pressure. HOWEVER not all sandblasting is damaging. I currently do my blasting at home in a cost effective less messy manner. IT is also might I add cost effective to set up originally. The 40 or 100 lbs pressure pot currently selling at some restorer supply houses or Harbor Freight is more than adequate for the at home DIYer. I do not recommend them for commercial enterprises. Anyway set this up with a back board of wood, less bounce and a large tarp to collect the grit for reuse..average recyle is three times and still cut good. Silica sand leaves no more residue than anyother media and most of the dust that fall back is the actual material being removed from the substrate. I use .030 grit that is locally purchased from my sandblast supplier at approx 3.25 a bag of 50 lb grit. I set my pot up to be pressureized at 50lbs of air pressure and flow I control at the base of the pot and not at the nozzle. If you shut off the flow of sand at the nozzle the sand will continue to accumulate in the hose and you have a great loss of media anytime you wish to restart. Cutting it off at the tank will allow the air to flow and clear the hose completely...then if you wish to shut the valve ok...but open it prior to opening the sand flow..you will thank me later. I blasted the front and rear gravel panels on my Plymouth Suburban in short time and reclaimed over 50% of my sand so the cost was less than 3.25 cents. Though you have sandblasted the metal and it does look clean..do not trust you eyes to this as being ready...I highly recommend that you next do a complete acid wash of the blasted surface with phosphoric acid..once it has been able to neutralize microscopic rust in the pits you can now neuatralize this with a water bath..air dry..now you will likely see a bit of flash rust discoloration, no biggy use a cloth damp with the acid to just quickly erase this flash rust..let this panel dry real well..then just prior to your priming, go over the panel with a 3M pad, wipe with solvent and apply your primer. This entire process is not that labor intensive and will be the best bang for the buck overall to my findings.

Everythingyou've stated is exactly correct. My procedures are the same, and in fact, you have the same blaster AND separator as I have...

[37 Pontiac SilverStreak]

great stuff... great advice!

[37buick]

We pretty much paid the rent with sandblasting our first 10 years or so in business. Nasty, dirty work but somehow very satisfying. One of the few areas in restoration where you see immediate results.

Hello everybody! My name is Marcelo and im from central jersey , starting to work on my 37 buick special 40, and would like to start with the underbody wich has only supperficial rust. Heard bad things about Blackbeauty ,(too rough) .Would like to get some ideias from the PROS... you guys ! tx

[37 Pontiac SilverStreak]

Team,

I will be blasting the car this spring, I will post videos and pictures with the tools used... Thanks for all the feedback!

[cobravii]

I have been playing around with this for a while now. I've used soda but it is messy, clogs easy and has to be neutralized. It also doesn't take rust off. I used sand for a while but after using up my first bag I couldn't buy it anymore because of the silicosis issues. I was recommended recycled glass. It works every bit as well as sand, won't warp metal and is really cheap. It is also MUCH safer than sand on the lungs but you still need to use a respirator at the very least. I would highly recommend a fresh air supply. You won't care how good the paint is stripped off if you can't breath anymore!

[37 Pontiac SilverStreak]

Team,

i am now at the stage where I will be sand blasting the car (with various media on various parts), my question is... How many bags am I expected to use for the shell, body. What is the average you have used. My local TSC store has silica free fine sand on sale, and wanted to ask forum before I buy... I have researched and estimated 6-8 50lb bags.

your thoughts...

[36 D2 Coupe]

Good information on this thread! I'm going to need all the help I can get when I get my blaster going. A question about water filters - I found with my old compressor that even when I blew out the tank and drained the water trap, I still got water coming with the sand and ended up with a mess. Obviously doing something wrong! Can someone give me clear instructions on how to set up a compressor and blaster so that I can keep the moisture out of the air?:confused:

Edited March 17, 2013 by 36 D2 Coupe (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

You need a good water separator. You need to drain it often. The more black iron pipe and water traps you have the better. Also, you need to drain the compressor tank often. usually once a day in my area is fine. If you blast in humid weather, you need to drain everything more often. It is best to have a water separator right on the blaster tank. I have two water separators hooked in my lines. One on the tank, and one where I plug the rubber hoses into and I still need to drain them from time to time while blasting. Dandy Dave!

[36 D2 Coupe]

Thanks Dave! My area is typically humid a lot of the time and without a good water separation system things just don't work very well.

[Friartuck]

Jim (D2 Coupe),

TP Tools has some on-line diagrams which should help you plumb your compressor and sand blaster. Note that the piping includes vertical branches which: 1) helps condense the warm moist compressed air when it hits the cooler metal pipe, and 2) water doesn't run/flow up a branch, only down-back into the trap:

Technical Tips - TP Tools & Equipment Their quote is worth adding:

We firmly believe that a properly designed piping system will eliminate 95% of all moisture problems and will result in smooth running airoperated tools and equipment.

I use a combination of metal piping and seperator at the compressor and 1 inch flex hose to the sandblaster with a seperator attached to the blaster hopper.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Friartuck
quote added (see edit history)

[36 D2 Coupe]

Friartuck - Thanks for the link to TP Tools. Their diagram of a typical setup is a great help. Now I understand what they mean by risers. I had a mental picture of something entirely different. Interesting that they refer specifically to black pipe. I would have thought that over time there might be a rust scale problem. On the other hand I may have to live to be a very old man to see that problem. Much appreciated!

[Friartuck]

Jim,

You can include high volume couplers (1/2 inch thread size) into your piping (manifold) design to facilitate easy connection of your blaster. This makes it convienent to set up for a small blasting job:

Coupler Assembly - TP Tools & Equipment

[Luv2Wrench]

I followed the TP Tools diagram (but used 3/4" copper) and did a 50' run, sloping down the whole way with risers on each drop. At the end is a final drop to a drain. After 4 hours of media blasting (Black Diamond or Black Beauty) I drain about 2 cups of water at that point and a little less than a cup at the drain on the drop. Very little, if any, water makes it to the separator. The slope, the risers and the length of the run before the drops makes a huge difference. I really didn't want to spend the money and take the time to do everything they suggested, but I am so happy that I did. I can media blast when it is raining without any issues.

[tenugent]

2nd that on a fresh air hood-had a friend die of sillica sand poisining working around our blast shop(laborer for cleanup).well spend 500+on wheels-tires-motors-etc.but then use a 15 dollar resporator for protection of our health.doesnt make alot of scence does it. just my 2 cents.t.nugent roa12969...

[Friartuck]

T. Nugent brings up an important point: Respiratory hazards from sand blasting (silicosis). There are dual filter respirators and fresh air masks and supply systems on the market (like TP Tools or Eastwwod), that are FDA breathing approved, but seem pricey ($600-$1,000). Eastwood even offers a system that runs from the compressed air line with filters, etc. Perhaps one could adapt a dual filter respirator and run a breathable quality hose from it to a pump for less $$ than purchasing a new system. The pump (source) must be out of the blasting area.