Tech Sessions at national meet

[Barney Eaton]

The national meets are packed with activities, would tech sessions draw a crowd?

What subjects should be addressed?

Should they be general sessions or specific to year/model Buicks?

What is your opinion

Anyone want to volunteer to host a session?

[Thriller]

Well, if timing worked for me (that is a session didn't conflict with another activity we were participating in), I would certainly be interested and I think some of my family members would probably attend as well depending on the topic.

I think general sessions that cover a broader topic would probably be of interest to more attendees. To go broader involves being less deep, but probably catches more audience.

Denny Manner had done a session on Nailhead engines if I remember correctly. Straight 8 engines, Dynaflow transmissions, turbo engines, and similar would probably go over well while covering a broad enough span of years to interest folks. Something like a "history" or chronology of the Riviera would be neat, although probably less technical...covering design / styling changes, generations, and so on. Perhaps a session could be done on Reattas (for the great unwashed masses who don't have one). Buick innovations - I'm thinking here of things that Buick did first in the industry or that were significant changes (i.e. driveline changes, '36 as first year for hydraulic brakes, and such).

These are just a few things popping into my tired head. If things get too year / model specific, then the appeal may be lost on too many leading to a small session - that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I presume the idea would be to try to have session(s) that appeal to a fair number of the attendees. I'll try to remember to discuss with Suzanne to see what she thinks. Perhaps there could be somewhat less technical sessions for spouses and children...at this moment I'm thinking back to Rochester and Ed Logan running "Buick and Its Parts" going through some of the changes over the years - chain drive, torque tube / open drive shaft, 4 wheel brakes, brass to nickel to chrome, etc. Something like that shouldn't be too difficult to research and put together a Powerpoint presentation on with access to sufficient pictures.

[Pete Phillips]

Attendance depends on when it is scheduled, publicizing it well in advance, and what the other activities are in that same time slot. There was good attendance at the technical sessions at the 2003 meet in Flint, but that's probably because there were 3 or 4 times as many people and cars than we normally have at a national meet.

At some of the national meets in the 1980s these technical sessions were tried, but the attendance was usually disappointing, which is probably why they stopped.

I think it's worth a try if you can get folks to volunteer. It can be a bit intimidating, though, because many times the people in the audience know as much (or think they do!) as the person doing the presenting, which can be a little deflating for the presenter.

I can't do it because I'm too tied up with the judging and the Bugle coverage of the meet, otherwise I would be willing to help in some way on this idea.

I would like to see a session on "detailing your Buick engine". I have some photos that could be used with this.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

[Thriller]

I would like to see a session on "detailing your Buick engine". I have some photos that could be used with this.

To take it a step further, there could be a general session on detailing, with break outs to engine, interior, and exterior, or any of the four. Folks like Meguiars always like to show their products off - with appropriate planning there could be a demo or a hands on session.

[Guest my3buicks]

Sometimes there are just so many things going on at a national that by the time you leave and are on your way home you realize you forgot to look at the Buicks ; )

[MrEarl]

Sometimes there are just so many things going on at a national that by the time you leave and are on your way home you realize you forgot to look at the Buicks ; )

You can say that again!!!

it would have to be something very interesting and with instruction or info that isn't easily gained elsewhere for me to attend.

Something related to the moment might work. Such as has been suggested with "Cleaning and Detailing Your Buick for Show" (after driving 2,000 miles through dust storms and rain). Another might be "Safe Trailering" (that trailer queen to and from shows).

Or another "When to believe the GPS lady and when to tell her to "Go Recalculate B**** "

Me, I'm looking at Buicks and meeting their owners at my next National....plus maybe taking a few pictures of Ladies in the Landau again.:eek:

Edited December 3, 2010 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[38Buick 80C]

The first thought that popped in to my head when reading this is that AACA does CJE (Continuing Judges Education) Sessions at around 9AM on show day. There are several (10 or more in some cases) but they each attract only a handful of judges and they cover a very specific topic and only last a half hour to hour. This format might be a good way to handle a BCA tech session. Get a number of BCA tech advisers to put on a several tech sessions on morning of show day and they can use the show cars as props in the discussion and it is meant to be a very small group per session. You do it before judging starts so the judges who are probably also the tech advisers haven't got tied up yet and hopefully those showing can take a small amount of time out of prepping to attend and it doesn't conflict with any other tours or events.

Just an idea for your consideration.

[Guest BJM]

I think it would be a very welcome addition.

The torque ball. When I was dismantling my 49 Roadmaster and got to the Torque Tube, I was mystified. It scared me. How does this thing work? What are the issues?

To be able to ask questions in front of a chassis or an expert would be great. I could just ask away dumb questions and all until I was satisfied I could do the repairs.

But to get advice on the forum and try to treplicate is tough.

How about a session on th 50's power accessories and what to look for, with a 50's Buick right there? I know some of the power brakes cause headaches, etc.

I would welcome this kind of activity at a National.

[Guest BJM]

Get a number of BCA tech advisers to put on a several tech sessions on morning of show day and they can use the show cars as props in the discussion and it is meant to be a very small group per session. You do it before judging starts so the judges who are probably also the tech advisers haven't got tied up yet and hopefully those showing can take a small amount of time out of prepping to attend and it doesn't conflict with any other tours or events.

Just an idea for your consideration.

I often wonder who among the crowd at a National is a tech advisor. Barney vets them, or they are long time experts, right? So if we have all that accumulated knowledge right there, we shoudl tap into that at a National.

I think there is a LOT of time at Nationals. I know some may not agree - going from one event to the next but the tech sessions don't have to be 4 hours long like a train ride event or such.

Have a tech session scheduled every day, one for each decade or specific topic, for 1-2 hours. Make it perhaps in the morning around 9am to 11am. Still have plenty of time for the afternoon activity.

But - here we are at a National witha ll these experts walking around not sharing their knowledge.

[Guest my3buicks]

Now that I think more on this, didn't we try this many years ago?

[Larry Schramm]

I like the idea of having a decade type sessions....except I would probably widen the window to something like 03-1919+-, 1920+-to WWII, post war to 1960, 61-79(pre computers), 80's(engine computers),90's(engine computers+body computers).

Edited December 3, 2010 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[jscheib]

Just a quick thought. I recall attending the talks on lubrication, so perhaps it is time for one on Ethanol???

John

[Barney Eaton]

I am glad to see the comments. Since time is always a problem, what about early or late tech sessions. This online group has a breakfast, we could have breakfast tech sessions.

or after the rest of your family is fed-up with Buicks, a 9:30-10:00 pm tech session with BYOB might work.

The Reatta Division has a tech session every year, usually in the parking lot and we wait until we get to the meet to pick a time (because there always seem to be last minute changes for activities) We usually start with a subject but then the questions start, we try to schedule one hour but have approached 2 when nothing conflicted.

I am a semi-finatic on changing brake fluid, at Buffalo in 2001 I attempted to do a tech session on brake fluid but could not get signs made to announce the tech session and barely got a room. I borrowed a refrectometer from a local company and we tested the moisture content on 3 cars.

There are probably lots of subjects we could have sessions on, but we need the local club to cooperate. I am willing to coordinate the tech sessions.

With the initial comments above, I will probably contact the Danvers people and at least get a commitment on furnishing a room and signs that can be posted at the hospitality suite (if we have one)

[JZRIV]

ROA has a Technical Q&A session at every national that lasts 1-2 hours. It is usually very well attended. It is not a how-to, topic specific type session but rather a panel of experts who field questions so it is interactive with all attendees.

Usually there are 4-8 people on the panel and it is assembled with folks who are known to be knowledgable in each generation of car and/or mechanical in general of a specfic era.

The panel is usually a mix of tech advisors and regular members who have a lot of knowledge in a specific area and are willing to serve for a couple hours. Sometimes questions end up being answered by someone else in the audience who just happened to have an exact experience they can share.

This process may work well for ROA because the Riviera spans a much smaller number of years vs Buick in general. Not sure if it would work for BCA or not but wanted to mention it.

Edited December 3, 2010 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

There was a tech session at the 75th Anniv meet in Flint . . . "Talk to the Engineers Who Designed Your Buick". They were all retired, typically, and most of the questions were about pre-war cars (or there-abouts). For some reason, it just didn't turn out to be what I'd expected it to be, content-wise, but it was an open Q & A format.

Denny Manner's engine seminar at the 100th Anniv meet in Flint was very good! Although it was an oral presentation, perhaps there might be some design drawings which could be added for a smaller group which could detail what made the Nailhead (or other Buick engines) the unique pieces of engineering they were (even how they might have compared to other GM carlines' engines!) . . . giving the attendees a better appreciation of what was under their car's hood.

Perhaps some "common repairs" issues could be the subject, as BJM mentioned the "Torque Ball" situation and how to best do other repairs with more modern, upgraded materials? Perhaps a Pertronix installation? Many seem to have their own prefs on car detailing products, be they Meguiars or Mothers, so some of those vendors might desire to send reps?

Or what about using Reattas to begin the discussions about electronics, radios, and instrument clusters? For "future collectible" Buicks which are now "used cars" to many?

As Pete mentioned, "when" to do it during the meet can be an issue AND relate to potential attendance. Perhaps having it scheduled for an "after the Forum Breakfast" situation might be a good time? Then let it evolve until the last subject and/or vendor has done their "deal"? Sometimes, if you try to confine it to just an hour (which might even be way to long, sometimes!), you can't really get into the more important aspects of some things. Doing this might make the location easier to make happen AND also promote the Forum to those who might not know about it OR have been more silent?

Just some thoughts . . .

NTX5467

Edited December 4, 2010 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Thriller]

I like the panel / forum idea.

[bhclark]

I would be very interested!

As an engine novice, I would welcome a tech session on evaluating a Nailhead for sure!

When I've attended Nationals alone, I felt like I had plenty of time...when I have attended with my family...not much spare time.

I would suggest staying away from topics such as oil (zinc) and gas (ethanol) as these would likely end up as wrestling matches or barroom brawls!!!!

[NTX5467]

I concur Brian. The motor oil and gasoline issues are "blips" just as R-12/R-134a and paint issues were in prior times. Getting into something more "mechanical" would be better (i.e., Nailhead rebuild "quirks" and why they were designed as they were, Triple Turbine DynaFlows and their advantages/disadvantages, and maybe some chassis-related subjects). Perhaps even the finer points of wood/steel bodies and their restoration?

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Larry Schramm]

How about Marvel Carbs???

[Guest 40 Buick 51c]

I have to admit that Ames being my first nationals, I was a little dissappointed. I thought there would be more technical. One of the reasons I went was to try to connect with others who own cars of the same model as mine and pick their brains for technical tips and sources. What I found was that there was no forum for gathering with owners of like vehicles and no way to know in the crowd who had what. Most of the people I ran into were friendly enough but didn't have time to talk because they had to be one place or another. I would like to see technical segments not only given but videoed and put on the site in a video library by subject and year. If we trully want others to join the BCA and restore Buicks then wouldn't it make sense to have something like that that is only available to members and that makes the process a little less scary. Just my two cents worth.

Darryll

[bhclark]

Darryll,

I concur....sometimes it's hard to even find time to look at the cars!

the "social" hour before dinner is far too short and dinner is time spent with those you came to see, but maybe should be organized by year of car ownership???

I'm part of the Model T world now and EVERYTHING you ever wanted to know is available on videotape!!!

[Barney Eaton]

It seems like a catch 22....... people that attend don't have time to see what they want and think someone else has the time to put together tech sessions and videos to make the trip worthwhile.

I was on the BCA board for 6 years and judged.. the worst part was not having time to do the things I wanted to do. People would ask if I had seen this or that car and there was never time. Being a Reatta person, I missed most of the Reatta Rendezvous because I had board commitments. I remember in Flint, starting on the first part of the Rendezvous, leaving to attend the General business meeting and getting a hamburger on the way and eating in the car.

Sorry guys, I can't feel sorry for anyone that doesn't get what they want out of a meet.

[carbking]

Not a Buick club member, but in the FWIW category, I have presented tech sessions on carburetors at several different nationals for several different organizations. They were always well-attended, and often quite lively.

The format I have always used is a short formal presentation, generally 15~20 minutes, followed by a general question and answer session. Generally, tech sessions were scheduled for an hour or hour and a half. Cannot remember anyone ever leaving early.

Jon.

[MrEarl]

Save the Tech sessions for Flint, where there is no judging and more time to take them in. Or judge every other year and hold Tech Sessions every other year.

[MrEarl]

Darryll,

the "social" hour before dinner is far too short and dinner is time spent with those you came to see, but maybe should be organized by year of car ownership???

A little off topic here but you got that right. By the time you stand in line to get one drink from the bar, everybody is headed out the door to the dinner. So, I find someone I want to talk to and offer to buy them a drink, on condition they stand in line with me. Right Derek.

[Guest BJM]

Save the Tech sessions for Flint, where there is no judging and more time to take them in. Or judge every other year and hold Tech Sessions every other year.

Sounds good to me. This might make those that want no judging happy.

[NTX5467]

I concur with Barney on the "no time" issue. If one might be involved, in some manner, with putting on the show itself or in another BOD function, about the only time you might have to slow down is after dark. By that time, the show cars are generally covered or "boxed", the swap meet is closed down, and everybody you might desire to visit with is "somewhere else" and having a meal or something . . . unless you might have roped them in to help you with your show functions in some way. You have meetings and functions to be at, even if you're not a BOD member with llittle time to squeeze in seeing what's in the swap meet or on the show field . . . OR finding somebody with a car like yours to look at or answer a question you might have. At least if you judge, you get breakfast, a pin, and get to spend time on the show field amongst the cars.

In some respects, to me, what it amounts to is that IF you're going to be "an involved BCA member", you're going to be at several meetings and events during the meet (which would include the General Membership Meeting, the BOD meeting, and a few others). Finding that treasure in the swap meet area will have to wait. So it gets back to "priorities" of WHY you go to the national meets.

In other respects, it makes it look more like a real vacation for the people who put their cars in a show field location and then spend their time devoted to IT as they feel like it and who can take breaks to walk through the swap meet with friends as they feel like it . . . as long as they get it ready for the show ontime.

Perhaps we need another poll?

Happy Holidays!

NTX5467

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Or another day at the Nationals!!

Ben

[MrEarl]

Or another day at the Nationals!!

Ben

If you could get the host hotel to offer the 5th night free.

[Barney Eaton]

In reference to Mr. Earls comment about the social hour before the dinner.

I was under the impression that because of Friday judging, the social hour, dinner could be started earlier so we could get out before we all turned into pumkins. However at Ames the events were scheduled for about the same time as always.... so we lost one advantage of Friday judging.

[Thriller]

A little off topic here but you got that right. By the time you stand in line to get one drink from the bar, everybody is headed out the door to the dinner. So, I find someone I want to talk to and offer to buy them a drink, on condition they stand in line with me. Right Derek.

I'm sorry Senator, I have no recollection of the event in question.

[NTX5467]

(I wonder how many of Mr. Earl's friends have given up alcoholic beverages at the BCA National Meets, recently?)

That's a very polished reply, Derek!

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[Thriller]

The giving up tends to be after the meet...either during recovery, or when one recognizes how much one spent....