Is a Wagoneer a "classic"

[Guest Cha05Twn07]

Would you consider a 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer "Final Edition" model to be a "classic"?

Apparently, the New York Times seems to think this vehicle is worthy of such a distinction. According to the author of this article found on the link below "...The Grand Wagoneer is one of the quiet landmarks of American automobile evolution..."

I've entered a debate with another forum member on this topic (under the Commercial Advertisement section). Personally, I believe this is all of matter of one's opinion.

Any thoughts on this?

Tommy Hilfiger Customized 1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Up for Auction - NYTimes.com

Edited November 13, 2010 by Cha05Twn07 (see edit history)

[Guest Silverghost]

OH MY !

Here we go again !!!

This topic seems to pop-up every week~

I say~~~~~~~~~

If you like it~

And YOU consider it a "classic"...

You should bid on it ; and so should the New York Times writer !

The N Y Times writer and Tommy Hilfiger are

NOT car collectors.

Tommy sells his name as a brand~

Some designers think if they just slap their name on anything it will then bring-in Big Bucks $$$$

Sady some folks buy into this idea ~

Tommy should just write the charity a big check and be done with it !

But that would not bring him or the N.Y. Times any of the big news publicity they want~

Tommy Hilfiger is not on anyone's list here of top automotive designers~

He needs to stick to his day job~~~~~~~ Selling overpriced Clothing.

"classic" is now such an over-used term that it now means very little to most folks .

Everything is a "classic" these days !

Other than that...

I'm staying out of this one~

Edited November 15, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Guest Cha05Twn07]

OH MY !

Here we go again !

I'm staying out of this one~

Hey Silverghost, I know what you mean. I know there are quite a few threads on this topic. The recent "New Classics" was a great thread.

I am just to poll everyone's thoughts on this particular year and model. Thanks!

[1937hd45]

The New York Times

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

In direct respect to the question: No! Maybe a collectible for some but not because any stinking clothing designer's name is stuck on it. Putting a "fake" Cartier clock in Lincolns of the '70s has not proven to make any of them more valuable, nor has it made them a classic and I have two of those land barges which I love to drive.

Oh, before I forget the only thing Cartier about those clocks was their name on the face of an otherwise common electric rewind automobile clock. Big Whoopee!

[Dave@Moon]

Actually the whole quote reads:

The Grand Wagoneer is one of the quiet landmarks of American automobile evolution — a forerunner of the S.U.V. and an embodiment of lifestyle aspirations of the sort Mr. Hilfiger’s clothing and other designs also feed.

...which is fairly accurate. What follows is a reasonable brief history of the Wagoneer from 1963 to 1991. Nowhere in the piece is the Wagoneer called a "classic".

The Wagoneer was probably the third SUV ever mass marketed, after the Suburban and Travelall. It was definitely the first American SUV to add real luxury/snob appeal during the 1980s (with lengthy option lists and supple leather interiors), at a time when Escalades and Navigators weren't even a glint on the horizon. In 1986 a Grand Wagoneer or Range Rover were probably the only 2 trucks welcome in most country club valet parking lots.

Besides, you guys do realize that in 4 years every last full-size Wagoneer ever made will be AACA eligible, don't you? They'll probably be parked in Hershey right across from the Yugos (also 100% eligible that year).

[Restorer32]

aaargh!

[mastertech]

the last year for the grand wagoneer was 1992, The jeep came to the dealership first, then they sent the dealer a plaque to be stuck on the dash along side the radio, when the tech did the predelivery servicethey were to put it on the dash, if they ever did (i installed everyone of them) . the plaque said 1992 jeep grand wagoneer final editon. I do have one of the plaques that was left over have it stuck on my tool box at work. I really miss working on them always had to fix the rear window tracks they would rust off the windows and then would break the wires for heated back window. And the air injection tubes on the engine would rust out causing exhaust leaks divertervalves on the air pump would go bad them when you were in decell like going down hill the thing would backfire thru the exhaust. Carb problems galore. I reall do mis working o them thou. we use to sell a lot of them to coal companys in our area. you could realy beat them things and they would come back for more.

[joe_padavano]

Since when has the NY Times ever shown any intelligence when it comes to automobiles? Why does anyone care what they think?

[Rusty_OToole]

The Wagoneer was the first SUV in the modern meaning of the term. It was the first to be designed with car buying public in mind, as opposed to the 4 wheel drive trucks with station wagon bodies that came before.

For this reason it deserves the name "classic" or whatever you want to call it. Some recognition of its unique place in automotive history.

By the way the Wagoneer still has its staunch fans, and there are a couple of companies dedicated to restoring them.

[alsancle]

Since when has the NY Times ever shown any intelligence when it comes to automobiles? Why does anyone care what they think?

Why limit the scope of their foolishness to simply cars?

Low post count and incendiary topic = troll.

[Bob Hill]

Since everyone is entitled to their opinion, here's mine - the Wagoneer is about as much a Classic as a 71 mint green Pinto!!!!

If I saw one at a show I wouldn't even break stride to give it a glance.

[Guest Cha05Twn07]

The Wagoneer was the first SUV in the modern meaning of the term. It was the first to be designed with car buying public in mind, as opposed to the 4 wheel drive trucks with station wagon bodies that came before.

For this reason it deserves the name "classic" or whatever you want to call it. Some recognition of its unique place in automotive history.

By the way the Wagoneer still has its staunch fans, and there are a couple of companies dedicated to restoring them.

Thanks for the comments everyone.

If the comment about being "incendiary" was directed at my post, that was not my intention.

What I've found is, as a 1991 model my particular vehicle is not an "antique", and to call it a "classic" is subject to an individual's tastes and opinions. What makes it special to me is the fact that it is a "Final Edition" model (with the plaque installed by the original dealer), and it's color was a custom order.

At least in my neck of the woods, a restored mint-condition Jeep Wagoneer is extremely rare.

Best regards!

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Cha05Twn07..."Welcome to the AACA Forum".

Please do not take some of the comments you recevied as representative of all forum participants..."A grain of salt" certainly helps survival here.

Scroll around all of the services on this AACA Forum. We have a lot to offer. On the Home Page check out the AACA Library & Research Center and the AACA Museum. The Library has retains an enormous amount of research literature.

Best,

Peter J.

[Restorer32]

When someone asks "Is a (insert car here) a classic" they should be prepared for an honest answer. If not, perhaps they shouldn't ask the question? If you think it's a classic it's a classic.

[Bob Hill]

I would have considered it a serious question had the OP's very first post in the AACA forums (two days ago BTW) not been this one below:

http://forums.aaca.org/f158/1991-jeep-grand-wagoneer-hire-292503.html

Just causes me to question the purpose of this post.

[joe_padavano]

Why limit the scope of their foolishness to simply cars?

I was trying to stay on-topic as far as this forum is concerned...

[Guest bkazmer]

dear original poster - what you stumbled into is a long running issue of the narrowly defined term "Classic" and the generic term "classic".

[Guest Cha05Twn07]

I would have considered it a serious question had the OP's very first post in the AACA forums (two days ago BTW) not been this one below:

http://forums.aaca.org/f158/1991-jeep-grand-wagoneer-hire-292503.html

Just causes me to question the purpose of this post.

I am just learning my way around here and taking some good advice since I've joined. I have been a regular visitor to this prior to signing up a few days ago.

My post on the "commercial advertisement" forum was for one purpose (yes, to promote my services), and this post under this "general discussion" forum was for another (to ask a general question and bring attention to the T. Hilfiger article on the NY Times) - thats all.

My question has been answered - thanks!

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Though it appears the question has been answered, I would just add, in the interest of making a distinction between "Classic with a big C" and "classic with a small c" :

The full-size Wagoneer is a classic example of the American four-wheel drive (station) wagon, having its day before the term "SUV" was coined.

And I mean "classic" in the same terms as your doctor saying " you have a classic case of the flu ".

I'm a stickler for proper language and semantics, and I would certainly consider the Wagoneer / Grand Wagoneer a "classic" among vehicles of its type.

[Restorer32]

Has there ever been another car with "CLASSIC" actually on the body other than the Rambler Classic? Apparently a Rambler CLASSIC might well be a classic but not a Classic.

[poci1957]

I read the article and agree with Dave@Moon that it looks quite accurate and the writer did not use the word "classic" at all, I appreciate such restraint.

The article does mention that Grand Wagoneers from the 1980s are again popular retro status symbols in Nantucket and other Eastern spots, and I had read that also in a recent column in "Automobile" magazine.

[Guest Dean_H.]

I wouldn't consider a Wagoneer to be anything more than an old junker, but that's just me.

My Dad had a '76 with the big engine (401?). He drove it for many years until CA started the smog testing (about 1990). It was missing the air pump. From that time he just used it around his farm. Anyway, a few years ago he got cancer and passed away. My mother asked me to clean out the barn and I put the Jeep on Craigslist for $500. I was surprised at the responses, probably 10+ in only a few hours. The first guy who came out, test drove it and dished out the $500.

Here's a pic, they certainly have a following.

[West Peterson]

Has there ever been another car with "CLASSIC" actually on the body other than the Rambler Classic?.

Chevrolet Caprice Classic

[poci1957]

I believe in the 1970s Chevy also badged a "Malibu Classic" and a (groan) "Nova Concours"

[Dave@Moon]

I wouldn't consider a Wagoneer to be anything more than an old junker, but that's just me.

My Dad had a '76 with the big engine (401?). He drove it for many years until CA started the smog testing (about 1990). It was missing the air pump. From that time he just used it around his farm. Anyway, a few years ago he got cancer and passed away. My mother asked me to clean out the barn and I put the Jeep on Craigslist for $500. I was surprised at the responses, probably 10+ in only a few hours. The first guy who came out, test drove it and dished out the $500.

Here's a pic, they certainly have a following.

Dean,

My environmental agency in PA had a whole fleet of these. In 2-door and/or short wheelbase form they were "Jeep Cherokees" until 1984 when the mid-size version was introduced. After that if you wanted a Wagoneer you bought a "Grand Wagoneer", as the "Wagoneer" name only came on a fancy mid-size Cherokee.

These things were unbelievable rust buckets in the salt belt, and by 1988/1989 it was not uncommon for a 1981/82 one to need $2500.00 worth of body work to pass PA annual inspection. Of course since we can't waste the taxpayers money (we had an extremely fiscally conservative governor in those days), we of course routinely shelled out that much money to repair these things to get one more year out of them (sometimes 2). I saw one that we had to put $4000.00 into (in 1988 dollars) just to keep it one the road for another year, which was at least double it's book value and about 1/3 the cost of a new one.

(Amusing side note, since we were so fiscally conservative none of these things had a/c, which was all well and good until the state went to auction them off in about 10 years. By then [1981 model year] so many parts were unique to a/c vs. non-a/c cars, and so few non-a/c cars had been sold, not even the junk yards wanted these [still drivable] vehicles for parts. Most were sold for scrap metal, probably to fiscally conservative scrap metal dealers.)

That said they were by far the most easy-to-drive/car-like 4x4s I ever drove. Compared to a full-size Blazer or Bronco these things were Corvettes (but without the acceleration).

Edited November 16, 2010 by Dave@Moon
absurd typo (see edit history)

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Think of "Classic" to cars as you think of "Classic" to music; Mozart,Beethoven,Brahms,Fellini,Wagner,etc.I'm not sure how to spell Tschaikovski.

[poci1957]

Interesting notes Dave@Moon.

As a young Chevy salesman circa 1989-90 I noticed the irony that the ancient Grand Wagoneer and (to a lesser degree) GM Suburban were both successfully marketed as premium luxury vehicles. I recall the Grand Wagoneer was the last American light vehicle to use a carburetor rather than fuel injection, and I knew the platform dated back to the 1960s, all offered at one of the highest prices on the market. Brilliant marketing from Jeep if you ask me, retro chic even when new?

Our own 1989-91 Suburban and K5 Blazer were Chevy's successful attempt at a similar formula. Both had very plush interiors (but cloth, no leather yet as I recall) and both at least had (more or less) up-to-date powertrains and were not as pricey as Wagoneers. Build quality fit and finish was abysmal. And both were quite well liked all the way until the debut of their much improved replacements in 1992. But they still did not have the high end snob appeal of the Grand Wagoneer and it's leather interior and fake wood. Enjoy them if you have one!

[Guest De Soto Frank]

A good buddy recently acquired an '89 Grand Wagoneer (Limited?) in decent shape; he's quite proud of it...

It is much more substantial and cushy than my own '97 Grand Cherokee Laredo...

Rust was a cruel irony with Willys and Willys-descended vehicles; they could go just about anywhere, as long as there wasn't any salt...

[RPrice]

The word "classic" is one of the most overused and misused words in the English language.

A woman came up to my '59 Studebaker Lark and called it a classic. I thanked her, but informed her that it was a vintage or antique, but classic is reserved for a very select group of cars, usually expensive and top-line autos.

I'm sure I confused her.

Rog

[Guest De Soto Frank]

The word "classic" is one of the most overused and misused words in the English language.

A woman came up to my '59 Studebaker Lark and called it a classic. I thanked her, but informed her that it was a vintage or antique, but classic is reserved for a very select group of cars, usually expensive and top-line autos.

I'm sure I confused her.

Rog

Roger,

I'm sure she meant "classic with a small c"...

:cool: