any advantages of keeping 6 volt system, why change to 12 volt?

[olds88]

I was looking at a 1955 chrysler new yorker for sale which has a 6 volt system. dumb question does this mean just the battery and generator and bulbs are 6 volt? should I have any concerns about it being 6 volt? I have seen vehicles in this range say they have been converted to 12v, what are the reasons for converting and is it just a matter of changing the battery and generator and bulbs? what are the reasons for leaving it as is (other than to keep the car original)? thanks

[Tom Martinez]

Changing over to 12 volt can get expensive and complicated because of all the things that need to be changed such as, generator, voltage regulator, battery, coil, all the bulbs( don't forget the gauge cluster) windshield wiper motor, blower motors, starter motor and solenoid, the list goes on.

The advantages of 12 volt are well known, but I've found that 6 volt systems are just fine but are very sensitive to the main ground connection. It's amazing what an afternoon of cleaning the corrosion from all bulb contacts, fuse box contacts, each fuse, and the ground conection of each and every piece of equipment will do. Use a light sand paper or wire brush or steel wool and you will be amazed at the new brightness of your headlights and tail lights. Don't forget to change out old battery cables because sometimes (frequently) they have substantial corrosion inside.

Hard starting and dim lights are not inherent to a 6 volt systems, rather it is lack of maintainence. Don't get suckered into using an 8 volt battery..it's the worst of both worlds. I also only use the Optima brand 6 volt battery.

[old car fan]

Keep it right,it has worked since 65

[Steve Braverman]

I never had a problem with my 6V system, but I put an Optima 6V battery in my '32 Franklin this year, and now everything works better. It's like magic

[1937hd45]

Gas and matches aside, all car fires are started by electrical systems.

[olds88]

thanks, I hadnt thought about all the other stuff you would have to change out. can 6 volt parts still be found easily? from like a napa or checker parts store?

[Guest old 52]

My daily driver is a 52 olds 88 with a 6 volt system. The 6 volt isnt as forgiving as a 12 volt as far as connections, corrosion, and grounds. It will take a little more in preventive maintenance. Once I cleaned all the connections, checked the grounds and changed some wires, its been running great. I have no intentions of going to 12 volt. Only real drawback is in cold weather if it doesnt start in the first couple tries, the battery dies. I have heard you can jump a 6 with a 12, but havent needed to try that yet. As far as dim headlights, I drive with the brights on. Doesnt seem to bother oncoming traffic. Mike

[imported_Bob Hill]

MY 54 is still on 6V and I intend to keep it that way. I have yet to change any of my 6V cars over to 12V and have never had any issues. As Mike indicated, in the winter you might have an issue but since I keep mine in a heated garage that hasn't been a problem either.

I love to see old cars kept on 6V

[Reatta Man]

Tractor Supply Company sells an 8V battery that really perks up a 6V system.

I don't know if you can adjust the voltage regulator to recharge an 8V, though....

Joe

[Rusty_OToole]

1955 was the last year for 6 volt. It was getting harder to start the high compression OHV engines on 6 volt, plus run all the power accessories such as power seats and air conditioning that were coming in at that time. That is why they changed to 12 volt.

I would not change anything. If your 6 volt system is in good shape it will be fine. Changing the car will be expensive and ruin the originality.

If the 6 volt system is an issue with you, frankly you would be better off buying a newer car. The 56 has 12 volts. In the Chrysler lineup, the 1957 not only had 12 volts, but the new torsion bar suspension and Torqueflite transmission as well. 58 got the new B and RB "big block" engines that were built up to 1978 and many are still in service, making parts easier to get.

[Barry Wolk]

The biggest problems with 6-volt systems is that the cables are often replaced with 12-volt cables. Since 6 volts is half of 12 volts the wires must be twice the size to carry sufficient current to get the job done. Also, the longer the cable, the lower its capacity.

My '55 Porsche, like all VWs of the era, are 6-volt hard starters. It's due to wire sizes being too small for the task.

[1937hd45]

Barry, My electrical knowledge ends with bulb replacement, but the 6 vs 12 volt wire deal has always been a mystery to me. If 6 is in fact half of 12 why does it need a BIGGER wire to transmit current?

[MCHinson]

With half of the voltage, you have to double the amperage to get the same wattage, or power.

So... you have to push twice the amps through the wire, so it has to be bigger.

For more than you care to read on the subject, courtesy of Google:

http://www.ebtx.com/mech/ampvolt.htm

[1937hd45]

I knew that would happen three things running through one wire, and someone else will correct that and add another electrical term or component. That link is for house electrical stuff not automotive. I'll stick to body fab work and paint, thanks anyway.

[Guest simplyconnected]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rusty_OToole</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Changing the car will be expensive and ruin the originality. If the 6 volt system is an issue with you, frankly you would be better off buying a newer car.</div></div> When you deviate from 'original' the resale value decreases. Having said that, do you drive it on city roads or highways? I can't imagine driving without seatbelts and radial tires. In rain, I want electric wipers, in heat, I like airconditioning. At night, halogen headlamps. All those accessories point to a 12-volt system, and none are original to your '55.

Do you like GPS, a cell phone charger, remote start/burglar alarm, 115-volt inverter, or a nice stereo radio? Good luck finding any of that in 6-volt. You can see why ALL car manufacturers went to 12-volt and never returned to six. 12-volt works better, comes lots cheaper, and more options are available to you.

It's YOUR car, and you need to decide what you intend to use it for.

Electricity 101:

Copper wire carries current (in amps). #14-American Wire Gauge (AWG) safely carries 15amps. #12AWG-20amps, #10AWG-30a, and so on...

Insulation holds back voltage from shorting. It comes with a type and temperature rating. Eg: THHN/60degreesC. THHN is thermal-plastic, and it melts at 60*C. It's also sold at Home Depot.

Stranded or solid? Only stranded wire can withstand a car's vibration, and it's flexible.

ALL YOUR ORIGINAL 6-VOLT WIRE IS TWICE AS BIG AS IT NEEDS TO BE TO RUN 12-VOLTS. That means you don't need to change your wire.

Your 6-volt generator probably puts out 35amps, when the engine is around 2000 RPM. At idle, it discharges.

Six Volt System

Volts times Amps = Watts. 6-V x 35a = 210-Watts

210-Watts equals TWO-one hundred watt light bulbs. That's all you get when your engine is running fast. Turn on the headlights and heater blower, and that's it. The radio pulls 36-watts, and you may want to turn off the heater while listening to the radio.

Twelve Volt System

Volts times Amps = Watts. 12-V x 55a = 660-Watts

660-Watts equals SIX-one hundred watt light bulbs (three times the power of the 6-volt system). Most alternators hover around 100amp, not 55. I just used that as the smallest alternator I've seen.

If you do this conversion yourself, it can be very rewarding. in fact, it's the best thing I ever did on my '55. If you're paying to have it done, it's expensive.

Here's a free Guide, in case you want an idea of what the job entails:

6 to 12 volt conversion

Hope this helps. - Dave Dare

[MCHinson]

1937hd,

There are probably thousands of sites that explain what I learned in High School Physics.... That one was just one of the first to show up on Google. The answer is simply...

Watts = Volts x Amps

It does not matter if we are talking AC or DC, 6 vs 12 or 120 vs 240, or any of the other variations that you can find in industry. It is simple. To have the same energy, requires double the amperage at half the voltage.

And when you are talking about high voltage... What I learned was it is not the voltage that kills you... it is the amperage.

[Steve Braverman]

Learn Ohm's Law, and all electrical mysteries will be solved for you.

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve Braverman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Learn Ohm's Law, and all electrical mysteries will be solved for you. </div></div>

I just mught return to stamp and coin collecting after looking at that link, thanks.

[stock_steve]

Keep it stock!

Having lived with many 6-volt VWs over the years, I've learned it's important to keep contacts cleaned, especially grounds. It is indeed possible to have a reliable 6-volt car!

I recently purchased my first 6-volt Optima (increasing prices of conventional batteries finally pushed me over the edge), though I also spent extra $'s to buy a "cloaking device" (third party-manufactured plastic box that the skinny Optima sits inside of, kind of diagonally, with a cover, so that it more or less looks like a conventional 6-volt battery--though I've noticed that it's substantially bigger). So far I'm happy with the Optima (size issues aside), but it's still very early in the game...

Anyway, keep it stock!

[Guest simplyconnected]

1937hd is looking for more practical advice, without complicated formulas. He needs to know the advantages of 6-volt, and why to change to 12. Simply put, 12-volt systems are far more common today, and offer a host of accessories that are MUCH cheaper, and available everywhere. I can buy a good-brand 12-volt battery for $70 (or less), all across the USA. Finding a good, FRESH 6-volt battery is a challange. Optima batteries cost three times what a 12-volt costs.

A 12-volt, 55-amp/hr, 550cca battery (very common) will produce more than double the power than a 6-volt 800cca battery produces, <span style="text-decoration: underline">at half the cost</span>.

I gave wire sizes, with their fuse/amperage ratings, if you need to run any wires. Here's an OHM's Law chart with 'resistance' factor:

Power (P) is in watts, Electromotive Force (E) in volts, Resistance ® in ohms, and Current (I) in amps. These are international conventions dating back over 100's of years, and that's how I learned them. <span style="text-decoration: underline">This chart applies to DC ONLY!</span> Read the chart like this: Looking for Watts (in the center) equals, either IxE or E-squared/R, or I-squaredxR.

AC is not always on, so it needs adjustments. Measuring in AC, your meter shows the DC eqiv., which is .707 (root mean square) of peak voltage. That's right, you don't really have 120-VAC at home. Rectified and filtered, it really measures 170-volts DC.

[Ivan Saxton]

I guess it is all a matter of principles, practicality, purpose, and prefences. I do not change anything in a way that I cannot reverse to originality, and I would keep clear record of changes that are not self-evident so anyone subsequently can recognise what has been done. If the purpose for your cars is to be used for judging contests, your aim is obviously originality. And if it has 6V electrics you ensure cable size is adequate and everything is clean as variously well advised above.

If your cars are strictly for personal use and enjoyment, it may be that you make changes that diminsh the originality. Apart from the matter of high compression V8s, early cars with large individual cylinder displacement can be a problem. If someone forgets to retard the spark the consequences of a kickback against a 6V starter can be regretable. If you are running that 6V starter on 12V, you won't do it any harm because it spins the crankshaft quicker, and it is likely to start on the first compression and not kick back. I put the 1918 Series 4 Mercer on 12V, used quartz-halogen bulbs in the correct headlghts, and converted it to right hand drive. I shall do the same with the 1922 A Duesenberg. The Roamer Duesenberg, with an updraft carb and not quite 1 1/2litres per cylinder starts on the touch of the button. It is right hand drive from new, but I will engineer the best 4 wheel braks I can fit for it, and of course quartz halogen dipping bulbs for the original headlights. It is just too potent a car to run on the roads otherwise, and I intend to run full registration. I have never presented a car for judging and doubt I ever will; because my cars and hobby are for interest and enjoyment: and anyone is entitled to their own judgement and preference.

Regards, Ivan Saxton

[Guest mmuehlba]

well as I remember the problems with a 6 volt system and mainly just things not done or not done right , biggest would be the replacement of battery cables , as I still see this today when looking at 6 volt systems they have the thinner cables where you should have the thicker ones . Then there is having every thing in tune and the <span style="color: #FF0000">VALVES</span> set correctly then all will work or did for me at least . Mike

[Guest simplyconnected]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ivan_Saxton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess it is all a matter of principles, practicality, purpose, and prefences. ...I have never presented a car for judging and doubt I ever will; because my cars and hobby are for interest and enjoyment: and anyone is entitled to their own judgement and preference.</div></div>

Well said, Ivan. I agree, too. The electrical conversion is VERY reversible, at any time.

When I'm done enjoying my classic cars, I won't really care what the next guy does with them. The operative word is 'enjoy.' I don't spend all my time polishing a car that never sees the roads. I use my classics for my family's enjoyment. (They couldn't care less what electrical system is under the hood.)

[Guest Bob Call]

Bottom line. If your car has only headlamps, tail lamps, and maybe a hearer blower and maybe an AM radio, leave it 6V. If you want to add any modern toys like air conditioning, power seats, power windows, kick a stero, then convert to 12V.

[Studemax]

Many of the Model A guys (and some Stude guys like me) installed a GM 1 wire positive ground alternator made in the Ozarks. Have one shipped for less than $100 to your house and install it.

Works great - makes your 6V system "all systems go!". No more dim headlights while idling at the lights. Add an Optima 6V and your system will be bulletproof - start in any weather. No more polarizing the regulator when the battery runs down.

OR - have your old genny reworked into an alternator for the stock look.

[olds88]

studemax, are you saying that all I need to do is install this alternator and I can keep everything else 6V, can you provide a source to get this alternator or generator?

[Guest Bob Call]

Studemax is right about an alternator. Even the smallest rated alternators provides about the twice the power of a generator and they are charging all the time they are turning. So if you don't need the generator look, go with an alternator.

[Matt Harwood]

No one has explicitly said this, and I hope I'm not pointing out the obvious, but make sure it's a 6V alternator.

[Guest simplyconnected]

Also make sure it's the correct polarity ground.

Fifth Avenue Garage - 6-volt alternator

This one puts out 60amps; great for a six volt system, but I'm spoiled with 12-volt alternators.

[d2_willys]

I can attest that the 6V Optima is the "way" to go. Had mine for over 12 years and still kicking butt on 6V starters. Cranks my Hudson 202 so fast that it almost sounds like it has no compression (but it has for sure).

You won't be disappointed.

Another problem with 6V systems is that the ignition suffers during winters and when the engine is trying to restart after running for some time. I believe Pertronix makes a solid state ignition system that should be able to give a very good spark even if the engine is stubborn. Just a thought. (I am in the process of doing something in that area on my 6V vehicles.)

[steve passmore]

I think the moral of all this is do whats best for your own enjoyment, and don't believe all the things your being told about what you have to change, Here in England many American cars were converted to 12 volts when sold here new, very very few British cars were on 6 volts. I have a 37 Buick that I converted to 12 volts 25 years ago without even changing the starter, and its still starting every time, I own 6 cars and they are all converted to 12 volts, all running on 6 volt starters and their original dash gauges and tank senders. Wipers are vacuum anyway, then its just dynamo and regulator (or an alternator) and bulbs, Even the horns work fine if a little enthusiastic. I might add I don't have original radios in any of them, Originality?? Who would know if it was 6 or 12? only a judge if your one of those trophy chasers.