Is the Tail Wagging the Dog at Hershey

[160]

I first started at Hershey years ago when I could park by the old stadium, walk the few rows in the old blue field, park your trailer next to the old arena on Friday and then on Saturday show your car on the grass inside the stadium. I had flea market spots in the old green field, then the swamp of the yellow field and now in the red field. For years I considered the show on Saturday the main event for my week at Hershey. The flea market grew ten fold over those years but the Saturday car show I still considered the primary event of the week.In my opinion over the last few years the car corral and flea market have pushed the car show aside as to why people come to Hershey. Of course during these years Herco started to expand Hershey Park and the Hershey Region did a remarkable job of continuing to move the flea market as well as the ever expanding car corral, plus the Saturday car show. In the past several years, I think the car show has even taken more of a back seat as to location with the primary placement being the car corral. Here is where I think the tail is wagging the the dog. The tail being the flea market and car corral. The Hershey Region and all their members are doing a fine job in trying to satisfy everyone and my thanks for their hard work but you can`t be a nice guy all the time and hope to survive. I think that for the Hershey show to survive, then some hard decisions will need to be made. The car show on Saturday should be #1 priority as to location, easy of getting into the show area and the parking of show cars on a hard surface. This was the case around the Giant Center in 2005, a great area to show cars.The Saturday show has been lucky the past two years on grass. For someone who has spent years and lots of money on restoring their car, give him a hard surface to show his car and a decent place to park his trailer. Make the Hershey car show the priority as to location at Hershey even if the region has to limit the spots of the car corral or cut down on the flea market. Ebay is killing flea markets and will continue to take business from the vendors at Hershey. Make the Sat show the reason to come to Hershey.If the whole Hershey meet has gotten to big then put a limit on the number of cars spots available for the car corral as well as cut down on the flea market spots. Make the vendors prove they are selling rather just using the spot to park and walk. But whatever decisions are made on 2008 Hershey, please give the priority to the car show.

[1937hd45]

With no limit on the number of new cars (25 years old and they qualify) it will never get smaller. However I don't see parts for them in the fleamarket that is still mid '50's and older. I'd like to see the over stocked flea market spots that we saw in the 1970's but that stuff is gone into projects. eBay is were the stuff is now 24/7 no need to save it for the fall meet. It looks like there are less buyers every year, but there is four times the area to cover and displace them on. I can remember the first car I saw with an AACA First Junior tag a 1908 Model S Ford, it was something very special in 1963, now just about every top restoration has one. Does winning one at Hershey really carry the same meaning as it did in the past? All the good stuff I've bought in the past three years came from friends. The hobby isn't what it used to be, all my heros and rollmodels are gone, I don't see it getting better, but it sure was fun. I'm glad I got to see brass cars inside the old stadium in the Golden Years of the hobby.

[nearchoclatetown]

Speaking of Scotsdale, what's going to happen now that the circus has left town and headed for Vegas?

[mrpushbutton]

It would seem to me that people are voting with their pocketbooks re: the swap meet. The swap meet has grown exponentially since I first attended the meet in 1980, and it is my primary purpose for going to Hershey. I like the car show, it is one of the greatest I have attended and one of the more confounding to exhibit a car at (even on dry pavement!). I consider the show the sweet ending to the week, but for me it's all about the swap meet.

How about some possible solutions? (I'm not a fan of belly aching with no solutions being offered)

well, you could give the car show back the Giant center parking lot and send all those who vend over to that mud-bog excuse for a field known as the (former) yellow field, where the roads turn into a mud pit on years when it does not rain. Does not sound like a good use of resources (paved lots) for an event that lasts 5-6 hours in a week that lasts about 40 hours. Were the vendors sent to that piece of HERCO Siberia I don't think as many would show, or return.

There has been a lot of talk about the non-vending space owners, spots with one vehicle parked and on one in sight, no parts being sold. If the AACA had the manpower they could make a list of all of those who repeatedly do this and send them over to Siberia, but people are resourceful and will find a way back in. If you took all of the parkers, sun glass vendors (who had not one antique car part in their booth) and even the multiple Chinese tool vendors (my own personal "least favorite" type of Hershey vendor--I can go to four stores near me and purchase anything they offer, or through the Harbor Freight catalog or on line)

The show isn't terrible on the grass--I liked it better when it was in front of the Hershey stadium, but can handle the current location.

The public has spoken, they want and value the flea market, and it is much easier to get your rig off of the parking lot when it has rained than in years past, when many vendors had to pay farmer Fred to tractor-pull their rigs out of the mud.

The flea market has been the Dog since the mid 1980's and the show is one fine tail.

[West Peterson]

I remember pulling my truck and trailer onto the "yellow field" the first year it was there. It hadn't rained yet during set up. I got out of my vehicle and watched as other trucks drove by. The ground actually moved in swells. Knowing that rain was forcast, I got back in my truck and parked it for the week. Upon visiting the field after the rain, well.... nothing more need be said.

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nearchoclatetown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Speaking of Scotsdale, what's going to happen now that the circus has left town and headed for Vegas? </div></div>

Hotter ring girls for one.

[mrpushbutton]

this is about the only T&A you'll see at Hershey

[Guest wombvette]

I actually go mostly for the flea market. The biggest problem, I see, is the parked vehicles and campers etc. in flea market spots. This is true for most large events like Carlisle, Charlotte and Hershey etc. Its a real pain to walk three days solid by those spaces with parked vehicles to get to the few real vendors. I think it is not too much to ask that the event, police this scourge. If you need a parking place on the grounds, then fine, allow that over in one area and leave the flea market to those that really have something to display. If found using a space for parking, that spot should be freed up for someone who has something proper to sell.

[1937hd45]

Some vendors don't arrive until Thursday. Some arrive on Tuesday and go out to search for bits they need and open the next day. Odds are the guy that isn't open doesn't have anything you want anyway. Don't try to fix something that isn't broken. Some lucky guys sell out on Tuesday and are empty untill they leave on Saturday.

[Dave@Moon]

When I first started coming to Hershey I used to go mainly for the flea market. This was back in the late 1980s when you could go on a Friday and still find plenty to buy. I can even recall people just setting up on Friday morning for the first time the first few years I went to Hershey, something that'd be almost foolish to do today. In those days I frequently found useful purchases at Hershey, and <span style="text-decoration: underline">always</span> left with empty pockets.

I've never been in a work situation where I could take three days in the middle of the week to buy car parts. I think it's no coincidence that the aging of the crowd that shops the flea market has advanced as the viable shopping days there progressed earlier and earlier. Today there's litte reason (beyond socializing) to be at Hershey after Thurday at noon except to hang around until Saturday.

Beginning in the mid-1990s I started just coming for Saturday only (largely on bus tours organized by the Pittsburgh C.O.R.S.A. Club chapter), spending virtually all of my time on the show field. Then I moved to Cincinnati. A few years since I've come to shop on Friday when I drove myself, camping in my truck. Largely I did this to be on the "parade route" as early as possible on Saturday. Shopping on Friday was mainly busying myself, socializing, and hoping for overlooked bargains. What little shopping I did accumulated a few spare parts, ususally from local PA vendors I knew who went home every night and brought back new stuff. I did once find a very rare NOS horn for my TR6 by pure luck (brought in that Friday morning and put out while I was standing in British Miles' tent), the only significant part I bought at Hershey in the last 15 years. It was no bargain, however.

The last year I shopped Hershey I left with more than 1/2 of the money I brought. I bought a set of tires from Coker that year (2005) saving myself shipping costs, otherwise it would've been a wasted day.

In my memory the cars have always had the prime real estate at Hershey, regardless of setup. That's probably been true from Day 1. I haven't been able to make it there the last 2 years, but if what I read about the new show field is true than the vendors are getting preferential treatment over the show cars. Grass show fields have a romantic appeal, but obvious drawbacks. I ran a major show on grass in Pittsburgh for years. It wasn't a major show when it rained. It still isn't.

If the car show is becomming secondary to the flea market, that would be a tragedy.

[Guest wombvette]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some vendors don't arrive until Thursday. Some arrive on Tuesday and go out to search for bits they need and open the next day. Odds are the guy that isn't open doesn't have anything you want anyway. Don't try to fix something that isn't broken. Some lucky guys sell out on Tuesday and are empty untill they leave on Saturday. </div></div>

You are right, he definitely doesnt have anything I want, cause he aint there. So, I go Wed. Thurs. and Friday, I should catch him there sometime? Right, Most of those that I am talking about are never there, and wont be. Thats the problem, it IS broken.

[Guest resq302]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 160</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I first started at Hershey years ago when I could park by the old stadium, walk the few rows in the old blue field, park your trailer next to the old arena on Friday and then on Saturday show your car on the grass inside the stadium. I had flea market spots in the old green field, then the swamp of the yellow field and now in the red field. For years I considered the show on Saturday the main event for my week at Hershey. The flea market grew ten fold over those years but the Saturday car show I still considered the primary event of the week.In my opinion over the last few years the car corral and flea market have pushed the car show aside as to why people come to Hershey. Of course during these years Herco started to expand Hershey Park and the Hershey Region did a remarkable job of continuing to move the flea market as well as the ever expanding car corral, plus the Saturday car show. In the past several years, I think the car show has even taken more of a back seat as to location with the primary placement being the car corral. Here is where I think the tail is wagging the the dog. The tail being the flea market and car corral. The Hershey Region and all their members are doing a fine job in trying to satisfy everyone and my thanks for their hard work but you can`t be a nice guy all the time and hope to survive. I think that for the Hershey show to survive, then some hard decisions will need to be made. The car show on Saturday should be #1 priority as to location, easy of getting into the show area and the parking of show cars on a hard surface. This was the case around the Giant Center in 2005, a great area to show cars.The Saturday show has been lucky the past two years on grass. For someone who has spent years and lots of money on restoring their car, give him a hard surface to show his car and a decent place to park his trailer. Make the Hershey car show the priority as to location at Hershey even if the region has to limit the spots of the car corral or cut down on the flea market. Ebay is killing flea markets and will continue to take business from the vendors at Hershey. Make the Sat show the reason to come to Hershey.If the whole Hershey meet has gotten to big then put a limit on the number of cars spots available for the car corral as well as cut down on the flea market spots. Make the vendors prove they are selling rather just using the spot to park and walk. But whatever decisions are made on 2008 Hershey, please give the priority to the car show. </div></div>

VERY WELL SAID! ! ! I could not agree more with his thoughts.

[Wowabunga]

Not sure what the cost is to register a car for the show on Saturday can someone please tell me ? I as a vendor (brought a trailer full of NORS old mufflers this past year) pay $70 per space rental and it's a good deal considering the huge crowd. I know that the registration money is spent wisely, alot of it is sucked up by Herco, either way it works and I'll be back again and again.

On topic... if people want the vendors on the outskirts then our vendor fees should immediatly be cut in half. You don't need a calculator to figure out that this then loss of money from 8,000 vendors would justify a nice $9 daily individual entry fee for to the event... ARRRRRRRG...!

[Dave@Moon]

Randy,

Hershey and the AACA (for most of us) are not commercial operations. They have to exist in a commercial sense, of course, but to see only profit as a reason for the show to exist is so limiting. If making money is what this is all about we should just all meet in a field and sell each other cookies like the Girl Scouts. The margin's a lot better!

Hershey is <span style="text-decoration: underline">the main</span> reflection of the heritage we're in the hobby to enjoy and protect. Losing that (even if only in focus, which will lead to worse eventually anyway) kills the reason the club exists. <span style="font-weight: bold">There was a time when the car show was what drew people to the flea market.</span> I'm not even 50 yet and I can still remember that era. I seriously doubt that's the case for all but a tiny fraction of buyers now, many if not most of which are "crate-motor restorers" at best, and for more than a few vendors as well (as your post demonstrates).

That <span style="text-decoration: underline">is</span> the tragedy I alluded to.

Money's killed better families than ours already.

[Wowabunga]

Money... shucks 4 spaces, food and gas and days upon days spent packing and sorting parts and unpacking (add a day of rest or was that 2 days of rest afterwards) and hit that calculator one more time with the loss of a weeks pay for the county schools... no no no I don't do this for money. But I do have to make a certain amount or I'll be home sitting.... worse yet I'll have to go get a real job....

Stop by and you'll see me yawing and jawing about how I need a few sales to help keep clothes on my Maniquins I bring. To make people laugh I bring some really fun and goofy stuff to clutter up my spaces. I could leave them at home but it's worth the time and effort. There's always someone from Germany or Sweeden stopping and taking pics of the "sideshow fun" I present. This year I told shoppers these gals demand new outfits every year so please by my junk. This year Smokey (photo included) wore a Cheer Leaders Outfit. Some nice folks with movie cameras stopped and interviewed me... I started talking and talking and they were eating it up. I like the excitement of open air markets and never hold back with my salesman ship ideas... never...! Do I sit and wait for people to hand me money... heck no I'm up and about telling jokes and making friends. As soon as I get some bills paid off, buy a house and some land I'm gonna order me a fancy custom made helium baloon... a sight to behold it will be... but that will have to wait.

You are spot on Dave about family... the best times for me are after the customers head back to their hotels... that's when my vendor pals from the Carolinas show up on Friday night and we grill everything we can find that is left in our coolers, tell a few jokes and laugh about the weeks events. I get the same when I visit them down their way. Now about those cookies, I'll cook the ribs and you bring the peanut butter cookies... in the green field... look for all the girls...

[Steve Moskowitz]

Just a few comments to all the posts here. it seems some long for days of old and some want major changes. Others seem to have found peace in the event and will come no matter what. I guess it is your perspective, what your true interests are and where your normal bias is.

The fact is that change has occurred and it is inevitable that it will continue. Nothing stays the same forever. I applaud the constructive criticism but it does bother me that many of the "complaints" are without the ability to understand the entire picture. Here are some random thoughts in regards to this thread and others:

1. The flea market is important to those selling and those buying

2. The car corral is important to those selling and those buying

3. The car show is important to participants and spectators alike

4. Flea market vendors, car corral sellers and show participants are all members of AACA

5. The event is FREE to most. No daily admission like Carlisle or Charlotte Autofair or other similar big events and the region has NO paid staff unlike these other entities.

6. People want more. More bathrooms, more food, more space, more amenities of all kinds. The region has to pay for land use, security, emergency services, etc. and again the spectators are not paying for these services.

7. Because of the above it is a business whether we want it to be or not as the region cannot expect to absorb losses for all of us.

8. Once again, HERCO should not be made to take the blame for simply running their business responsibly. They are a integral part of the Fall Meet and work very closely with the region. The event is important to them financially and as a general part of their marketing of what they are all about. They have put significant resources towards the success of all 3 AACA entities and are a valued partner.

9. Size does count and the challenge is for more space for the fall meet. Cutting down the size of any of the venues should never be a viable solution. Finding ways to move forward with better use of the land is important. There is an opportunity some day for more blacktop but that is a local government issue that will need to be settled with Hershey Entertainment and the township. The former White Fields and Blue fields are most likely never an option again as the property belongs to the trust and they have specific uses that they will only allow.

10. THE CAR SHOW IS IMPORTANT! Critically important to AACA for one and our board is doing its best to support the region in finding ways to fix the problems that have occurred. It is interesting to hear the vast differences of opinions about parts of the show as I have heard it was the best ever to it was the worst ever. Again perspective.

The fact is that there are huge challenges that the region has in operating this event and policing it as well. Think of this, many of the region people never get to go to the show, never get to go to the flea market and never get to have fun because they are working for all of us to have fun! I know from first hand experience as I do not get to enjoy the week like I used to as well due to having to work the event.

And far as those folks that "live" on the grounds at their vending sites. Some are very legitimate vendors and deserve the opportunity to have their "offices" on site and occasionally others are violating the rules. How many of you have brought those space numbers to the Hershey region main tent? We are all partners in helping out or at least we should be.

A few days ago a person called bragging about how long he has been coming to "Hershey" and demanding changes, etc. He was quite insistent, sadly fairly rude and to top it off he was not even a member. We as a club are here to help the entire hobby which is why all of our events are always free to the public but it sure would be nice for those of you that are not members to consider joining and be a part of the solution.

In the end, we have to do better even if it is difficult. For those unaware, there are already discussions and meetings going on concerning the issues of the fall meet. The region has a recap meeting with all their chairmen as well. All the correspondence we get in regards to your suggestions, complaints and ideas get forwarded to the region.

I guess this is a rather long winded post to just say that there are far more issues involved then anyone thinks and this is no small event to put on. Many of you have helped with local shows or other events, multiply that many times over and you get just a smattering of what the region has to deal with over a WEEK period (actually almost a year as well).

Have faith...everyone loves "Hershey" and is doing everything possible to preserve it for the future.

[Dave@Moon]

Thanks for that response, Steve. I can only think of two items that I can add to:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact is that change has occurred and it is inevitable that it will continue. Nothing stays the same forever. </div></div>

While most changes from past years were inevitable and almost entirely unavoidable, it was <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> inevitable that the flea market date would creep further and further away from the show date (over decades). There was obvious pressure to do so from vendors and shoppers alike for many years. However it's had the effect of divorcing the flea market from the show and therefore the club as a whole. (Which may be why it's breeding individuals like the rude person who called you earlier.)

Also it was <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> inevitable that the car show's real estate would take what appears to be a back seat to the flea market (much of which is evacuated long before the show cars arrive). Like I said I wasn't there the last 2 years and can't speak to directly to that, but it appears that many believe the show was pushed to the periphery when the White Field closed. It was a paved show central to the event for the 20+ years I've been familiar with it, even when there was <span style="font-style: italic">no</span> paved flea market. Now it's on dirt at the edge of an entirely paved flea market. It's nice dirt I'm sure, but still dirt. Both earlier show fields are now flea markets.

No matter, my weekend was orders of magnitude worse for not coming. I'll be back no matter what!

[Oldsfan]

Does anyone remember when the car show used to be around the stadium? Show cars used to enter at the Hersheypark sign and almost immediately entered a fenced-off "parade lane" with no pedestrian or swap meet traffic, went past Chocolate World, looped down around the bottom at the old arena, then entered the "main drag" before hanging a left and entering the show field. Not only was that a good route, but it made for a great parade! When the show was over, traffic exited via that "main drag" and was directed out onto Hersheypark Drive, where it was easy to get to whichever route you needed to go home, instead of being directed in towards town. There were facilities under the stadium and always food nearby. There never seemed to be a problem with that setup. We never heard complaints the way we have the past few years. Rain, mud or dust weren't issues. You got a standard sized parking space for each car. Exit routing was simple. That has all changed. Why? Because HERCO changed the landscape? OK, its their land, they're allowed to do that - so let's deal with it. Put the showcars back on that asphalt around the stadium. To enter the showfield, bring them in the way they used to exit - on the "main drag" behind the stadium. Let them hang a right at the end of the stadium to enter the showfield, or, if a longer parade lane is needed, let them swing down around the old arena and past Chocolate World and then bring them in the lower end. Exiting the field would be the same as it had been in past years. There - we fixed that problem.

But what about all that empty space during the week? The reply to that would be - parking. Remember what they used to do during the week when the show was at the stadium? That's right, they had paid spectator day parking on that lot. This space could also be used for show worker parking, eliminating the spaces taken up in the swap meet fields by show worker vehicles. When I am in the swap meet, I want to be looking at items for sale, not workers daily drivers, like the sea of them in the Chocolate field.

Now, what about all those displaced Red Field vendors? Well, some of them can be put in the fields where the worker parking has been eliminted. The remainder can be put over on the golf course. But don't force anyone to unwillingly go over there - give them a choice, and an incentive. Rent those spaces at 1/2 price for the inconveniences of being on the grass (which some people actually like) and for being "so far away." I'm sure there are some, um, "thrifty" swap meet vendors who would take advantage of those 1/2 price spaces. Remember when the swap meet ran from the western edge of the Green Field all the way down to the eastern edge of the Blue Field (where the Turkey Hill is now)? Would it really be any further from the western edge of the golf course all the way down to the stadium? People expect to walk at Hershey. They've got directories. We can find people in the directories, and if they happen to be on the golf course, so be it. If there's a vendor at Hershey and I can find them in the directory, I'm going to see them regardless of where they are at. I don't ever recall saying "I'm not going the whole way over there!" Miles and miles of walking is just part of Hershey. From a revenue standpoint - what would be lost in renting the golf course spaces for 1/2 price would probably more than be made up in spectator day parking fees.

That's enough suggestions for now. We'll leave the car corral and motor homes for another time.

Paul

[41man]

This is the first time I've been on the forum since the Hershey meet.Briefly ', and I hope this is taken as constructive criticism- I would have gladly endured the 2 hours it took from up by the Mcdonalds on the highway to finally park on the showfield, if it had been the final destination of where the cars wound up years ago after rounding the old stadium. I think back fondly now how great the atmosphere was as I came up the driveway and rounded the stadium. It's hard to describe the feeling. Let's just say it sure was special. Then came the year where I was directed around the back of the Giant Center. What a let down. We really lost sometthing there. I won't go into the problems I encountered as I slogged my way onward, as I'm sure Many have already adressed these issues. At a local car club meeting the other night, there was a discussion about trying to get to the root of the problem.There seemed to be a consensus that there too many non legitimate vendors there. BY THAT I mean the guys who set up a fold up table with just plain junk that no one can possibly want , or so little of value that it becomes obvious as to the reason they occupy this space. And if vendors aren't going to sell the whole day on Saturday, get them out on Friday so the show cars can be on the pavement.

[ex98thdrill]

Paul,

I know what you're saying, it seems like a good idea, but I am a firm believer that based on size alone, the show cars will never go back around the stadium. If I'm not mistaken, I beleive that the show field had either outgrown, or was about to outgrow the Giant Center. With that in mind, the results are that the show has gotten big, you want to have the real estate to keep everyone together, and you don't want to turn anyone away. Given that situation what would you do if the decision was yours?? Trying to view things from that perspective, I don't have any answers.

As for the parade going onto the show field?? That has always been fun driving onto the field at Hershey. ......Especially when you have an old fire truck. When I cranked up that old siren and let it wind down the crowd went nuts ......especially the kids. I remember four years ago when we drove our woodie in, it was like a Hollywood premiere. From the time that we approached the bridge, until we parked the car, it was like driving through a wall of flashbulbs. The enthusiasm you get from the crowd when you drive onto the field at Hershey is like no other show. Bringing a vehicle to Hershey, and winning at Hershey gives you a feeling of accomplishment. As a kid, putting a car on the field at Hershey was only a dream, so being able to do that and then win, really adds to the excitement.

Hershey really is AACA's version of the superbowl. It is usually the last outing for most of us with our cars for the year, it is the biggest show, the competition is usually tough, and to win you have to be on top of your game. I feel that the awards won at Hershey has been as tough or tougher than winning awards at the Grand National. As in other posts made by others, there are people that won't bring a vehicle to Hershey unless it is for a Preservation Award or an HPOF because of the competition. For my dad and I, we do it because we like the challenge and playing with the odds.

In 2003 we won our Senior at Hershey with our woodie and we lost the Grand National at Buffalo the following year. I felt that the competition at Hershey was tougher than the competition that we had in Buffalo. In either case we expected to lose at Hershey, and didn't.

Last year we got our First Junior with the fire truck at Hershey. To some that might not mean a lot, but I know of an American LaFrance out of Long Island where it took them three times to get their Senior Award. As in the case of this truck and ours, the team captain on the judging team was Ed Peterson. Ed Peterson was the former president of the Hershey Region, he is the former national president of SPAAMFAA (the antique fire truck club) and AACA's annual award for the best fire apparatus is named "the Peterson Fire Apparatus Award" which is named in his honor. Ed has forgotten more about those old fire trucks than most of us will ever learn, he is a wealth of knowledge, but he is also TOUGH!! To make the grade for an award through him is an honor!!

Steve, I know I am one of those who were taking shots at Herco, I understand what you're saying, but here comes the issue where it seems like they keep charging us more and giving us less every year we go down there. I know that HERCO owns the land, and they have every right to do with what they want with their own land. In either case will the actions of HERCO turn me away?? <span style="font-weight: bold">NO!!</span> It still would be interesting to find out what HERCO makes versus the Hershey Region. The Hershey Region works very hard and they earn every penny of the money that they make.

[1937hd45]

I've never read were anyone memtioned how large the former golf corse is/was. Are there other greens or fairways that can be used for car display use?

[Joe Block]

I favor supporting the flea market, i buy a lot on ebay, but with all the automatic bidding program some people use, you got be there the last 2 second or you get out bid, 2-3 years ago in ebay was more fun you actually could have a bidding war at the end, you know the other guy by name.

No, I love the Hershey Swap meet, i sometime debate whether to stay at for the car show, i usually do and i am traveling 1/2 way around the world as I work in the middle east. I spend as much time on the plane, 48 hours, as do walking the field in four days, so give the vendor a break. Let do the best they can, as to ebay there a lot people especially some of the older parts guys you don't see on ebay. And there some guys buying on ebay and haulaing to Hershey too.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a firm believer that based on size alone, the show cars will never go back around the stadium. If I'm not mistaken, I beleive that the show field had either outgrown, or was about to outgrow the Giant Center. </div></div>

As I recall the registration count at Hershey peaked in the mid- to early 1990s and has declined slightly ever since. At that time, when the muscle car era cars were just matriculating into the AACA, there were as many as 2000 cars registered--possibly a little over. This was when it was filling the lots all around the stadium.

The show count now hovers around the 1500 car mark as I understand.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...i buy a lot on ebay, but with all the automatic bidding program some people use, you got be there the last 2 second or you get out bid,...</div></div>

Nobody is ever outbid at the last minute by someone bidding <span style="text-decoration: underline">less</span> than they did. You can't be sniped if you're the high bidder no matter when you bid.

[Bhigdog]

Right on vis-a-vis the thrill and excitement of driving onto the show field in the past. The parade in itself was worth as much as the show. It was fantastic hearing the oohs and aahs and remarks about your car. Now it feels more like we are being told to go around to the back door for a hand out.

It seems the current problems started when the available real estate shrunk. It's pretty obvious to me that unless more quality square footage appears something is going to have to give. So far what has been giving is the Show itself.

Unless more available space appears I think it's time the administrators of the Event face the fact that drastic changes have to made. If the Event leaders want to make the flea market the primary purpose of the Event, fine. If they want the Car Show itself to be the primary purpose, fine also. But how about acknowleding that things, as they are now, are unsatisfactory and moving ahead decisivly. I would much rather see Hershey doing one or two things well than everything poorly.

To my untrained eye some things that would open space and preserve the revenue stream are:

1. Have a patrol canvass the market. Anyone that is obviously using the field for a camp ground would simply not be sold a spot next year. This would open space with no loss of parts for sale. Then cap the available spaces until more square footage appears.

2. Move the corral to an off site location. The people who are genuinely interested in buying will go to the cars. The vast majority of corral lookers are just that. The cost of renting off site space paid for by increased corral rent or other revenue streams. See below.

3. Charge general admission for the market unless you have preregistered a car for the car show. The show itself would remain free. A pass for two would be mailed upon receipt of registration. The admission should more than cover the lost revenue from the market squatters. If it does not adjust the other fees accordingly. I really don't think a modest admission will reduce the head count, and in fact might enhance the perceived value of Hershey. Human nature tends to value something relative to what it costs.

[160]

Having started this thread, it has been interesting to read each reply. Here is an idea that might keep most happy, keep the flea market in the present location and move the car show to the paved area around the Giant Center. It would require cutting the car corral from 4 days to 3 days in its present location, leaving Sat open for the car show.Now with the car show off the grass that would leave the grass area open for the other day of the 4 day car corral or a special one day car corral and a one day fee. Remember as one reply stated, the area around the old stadium which is now the east end of the red field was used back in the 80s for day parking Wed through Friday then the show on Sat. Great place to have a show BUT that will never happen as that would require a lot of the red field to find a new home. So using the same part of the area for 2 differnt events in the same week is nothing new.If the spaces for the car show around the Giant Center are limited to x amount of cars which is less than those who who like to show, then set a max number of cars who can register and keep the show managable. If I remember correctly max numbers of cars were set back in the 60s for participation on the Glidden Tours.I think at one time the car could not be newer that 1936. So setting a limit on an activity is not new. When more space becomes available at Hershey then the limits come off.

[Dave@Moon]

I doubt I'm the first to think of this, but... <span style="color: #3333FF">Would the AACA Museum lot and surroundings be large enough to handle the car corral?</span> I know it's been used for camping in past years, and it would necessitate the use of shuttle busses back and forth to the show grounds (which is a major pain). But I don't think you could beat the real estate cost <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> it would do wonders to promote the museum.

[novaman]

If I remeber correctly there is already a cap on the number of spaces you can get as a new vendor and that is 4. Most of the vendors with the larger number of spaces are your older vendors tht renew thier spaces every year.

[Restorer32]

Please define "legitimate vendor". Is a person with 1000 low value parts for sale a vendor? Is a person with 6 very high dollar parts a vendor? Is a restoration shop with a small display a vendor? Are the HCCA, AACA, CCCA, etc. with their multi space hospitality tents legitimate vendors? Is a fellow with only a car for sale on his space a vendor? How about a restoration shop with multiple spaces that displays examples of its work, are they a vendor? How about a long time member of AACA who invites new members along to their first Hershey and allows them to park in his spots and enjoy his hospitality and their first "total immersion" in the Hershey Experience. Is he a vendor? How about the fellow who has been coming to Hershey for many years and is now virtually sold out of everything except his huge store of knowledge re old cars and the Hershey mystique and shows up every year to simply be a part of "Hershey" and hopefully pass his love of automotive history on to a new generation. Is he a legitimate vendor? How about the fellow who takes orders for parts or services throughout the year for "delivery at Hershey" yet displays very little for sale. Is he a vendor? How about the auction companies distributing flyers and catalogs, are they vendors? How about the guy selling high dollar automotive art that is outside the price range of likely 95% of all visitors to Hershey. Should he be banned? I do have one suggestion. When a current space holder pre-registers for the next year he can only pre-register for the same number of spaces. Perhaps this could be changed to where he could pre-register for the same number or a lesser number of spaces. I know folks who keep more spaces than they actually need for fear of going back into the lottery system and ending up in the Yellow field. How about the fellow, again coming to Hershey for years, who sold his last part or his last car years ago now and comes to Hershey simply to be a part of things and to judge the show on Saturday. Ban him? Remember, everyone comes to Hershey for a different reason and that reason is not necessarily to sell or shop for parts. To many, if not most visitors to Hershey, these are the good old days! Just my thoughts.

[Bhigdog]

All of your examples may or may not be examples of legitimate vendors. And if there was infinate space available there would be no problem. However the available space is shrinking and the resources are just not there for it to be all things to all people. The policy makers need to decide which facets of the event have priority and then do what is necessary to make it happen. As it is now, in my opinion, they are trying to do everything and none of it is done as well as it could/should be.

It's time for hard decisions to be made as to what comes first. Revenue? The Show? The Market? The corral? ....Bob

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please define "legitimate vendor". </div></div>

Someone (person, business, or organization) who's an asset to the enterprise because of their offered material goods and services of value. Easy enough?

Also being "banned" isn't correct terminology. This is about rudeness.

If you want to help new people to experience the swap meet, or if you're coming to "be a part of things", there are ways of doing it that don't exclude someone else who does have material goods and services to contribute. There are ways of particpating in group activities that diminish those activities instead of enhancing them. People who use limited swap meet space for non-market reasons destroy the essence of the enterprise with their presence by doing so. There are any number of ways they can accommodate their desires and needs without hip-checking value out of the meet experience for everyone else.

[mrpushbutton]

One thing that has not come up in these conversations is the fact that Hershey is, and has been <span style="font-weight: bold">THE</span> trade show for the antique auto restoration "industry". I use that term somewhat generically, there are big players like Dennis Carpenter and Bill Hirsch and small players like an individual or one-person business that have reproduced a small number of parts for one make, model and year.

It is the one place where most all of the players in the hobby and business get together and show off their wares, and restoration shops, museums, marque clubs, specialist services like chrome plating, engine rebuilding and others make their presence known to the car restoring public.

Most trade shows take place in big civic halls like McCormick place in Chicago or the big hall in Vegas, and the costs of participating in shows in these venues are prohibitive to most hobby-type pursuits.

I like the fact that this "trade show" is dovetailed into the AACA swap meet, is dirt cheap to exhibit at compared to an indoor big city civic hall trade show. You can set up your own booth however you please, within the guidelines and if you are in the business, it's the place to be seen that week.

[Restorer32]

If you are seriously suggesting that the flea market be limited to only those "who are an asset to the enterprise because of their offered material goods and services" you will see the flea market shrink to maybe 1/3 or less of its current size and attendance will fall dramatically, in my opinion. Hershey is no longer simply a flea market. It has become an enormous "family reunion" with an ever larger family to cope with. I, for one, couldn't care less if the car corral were eliminated. Others enjoy the corral. The most important function of Hershey isn't providing a place for folks to find "material goods and services" but rather to foster interest in automotive history and to encourage participation in the hobby. What percentage of those folks wandering the fields at Hershey are actually searching for parts? Not all, that's for sure. Likely not even a majority. Many are there to see what's new, to look at the interesting cars and memorabilia on display and to simply soak up the atmosphere at the "Greatest Show on Earth". Should we ban those folks also? Let the storm troopers loose and those folks will stay away in droves and the hobby will suffer. Let's face it, trying to actually turn a profit selling parts at any major flea market has become an increasingly fruitless endeavor in the age of the internet. I would worry less whether folks are actually vending on their spots and more about insuring that they keep coming.

[Steve Moskowitz]

I guess the short answer to this is no. Like you said it would be a pain. If the reaction to being "off-site" is the same as when they had it at the Outlet Mall it would be a disaster.

While I cannot speak for the museum, hard surface is sparse at the Meet as it is their busiest time of the year. Parking for the normal visistors is at a premium. Even land is becoming short with the new storage building going up as we speak. Finally, it would necessitate the cars being on grass for 4 days which is not an optimum situation.

All the parts of the dog need to "wag" at the fall meet and hopefully all the discussions going on will find a reasonable solution to these genuine problems.

[1937hd45]

To those that complain the there is nothing to look at in the flea market on Friday & Saturday why not put the Car Corral vehicles back into the market as they were years ago. That would allow the CAR SHOW to be on pavement.

[Restorer32]

I agree. If something has to be sacrificed let it be the large, multi vehicle car dealers whose only interest in antique cars is seeing how much profit they car ring from them (in some cases). Remember the pre-corral days? Made walking the fields more interesting in my opinion.

[Restorer32]

The car show should be the center of attention and in the center of the festivities as it was pre-flea market. Yes, there was a time when Hershey was just a show. Put the corral on the golf course!

[mrpushbutton]

Restorer32--perhaps I did not explain fully. In addition to the great individual vendors who have supplied me personally and my place of business, there is an element of an industry trade show to Hershey. I make no judgment either way as to who is more entitled to space, although I am inclined to favor the little guy with one or two spaces crammed with parts, be they NOS shiny or a pile of rustys on a blue tarp. Those guys ARE the heart of Hershey and the hobby and they are your best bet for a car that is not being served by the re-pop network (we know who the usual suspects are here). The larger operators have catalogues and websites (now days) and aside from "show specials" their goods can be bought via mail order 24/7/365.

The intent of my post was to bring up the fact that Hershey has also become the hobby and industry's "trade show", and I would not enjoy such a trade show nearly as much if was "restoro-con 2007" at some civic convention center, nor do I think there would be a need or market for such a thing.

[Shop Rat]

Steve, just linking off of your post to ask a general question.

With all the posts about the swap meet/flea market area I was wondering about the following.

Are vendors with items/vehicles to sell being turned down for spots?

If so then a hard look should be taken at how the spaces are being used. Vendors should not be turned away when there a spaces with several modern cars/trucks sitting in them so people don't have to pay extra to park somewhere else. Probably most of us know people that get several spots and use two or three for what they are selling and re-sell the extra spots to friends so that they can park there.

If no one is being turned away as vendors then I say sell the spots to whomever will pay for them.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Yes every year there are more applicants than spaces available. In some cases spaces are not completely sold out to allow for shifts due to tents, traffic, or other last minute adjustments that need to be made. This is why occasionally you hear of spaces being sold at the meet itself.

You have to be careful about making judgments of certain spaces. Sometimes there are cars parked due to a vendor not showing but he did pay for the spaces and others nearby end up using them for parking.

The issue of policing the flea market is no small task. Has anyone noticed that there are 700-1000 people giving up their time to put this show on? There are only so many bodies.

The point is well taken that there are vendors who are non-compliant with the rules. The Region is aware of it and every year there are people who are asked not to come back. This is an issue that they are continually going to have to work on without being the Gestapo!