carbking

The Carter type WD-0 debuted in 1935 (Hupmobile). The only Buick 70 series to use the WD-0 was 1940. The 1936 Buick 90 series used a Stromberg type EE-22. Four different type EE-22 were used (early, late) (standard air cleaner, triplex air cleaner). All real Carters were identified by brass tag (beginning in 1932, before that, the tags were red cardboard). Carter knew that the commercial rebuilders would throw away the tags, and thus stamped a "code" number in the underside of the carburetors. Using the code number (if still present, the rebuilders also ground off the number) and the number of one of the metering rods, Carters may generally be identified. Jon.

The dual Holleys, without modification, were too much carburetion for the 312! Sometime, someone figured out to limit the opening of the secondaries, and the engines ran better. Most of the serious racers got more power out of the 4150 than the dual quads, simply because they were smaller overall. The folks that figured out the secondary limiting got marginally better performance from the dual quads. Jon

Peter - I had no need to see the entire carburetor; so did not ask the customer to trust it to the mails. I do not know if it was all aluminum or not. From what I remember, the lower bowl cover screw in your picture was moved roughly 3/8 inch. As you are aware, only Chrysler used the UX-4 as original equipment. Jon.

The UX-4 that we had was die-cast. HOWEVER: Maybe 10 years ago (time flies when you are having fun), we sold a rebuilding kit for a "Stromberg UX-4". The kit is hand-made, and not cheap. The customer called to inform me that the needle and seat and the main gasket did not fit????? I have the original Stromberg drawings, and the kit was made from the drawings; how does it not fit??? Well, we try to keep happy customers. It isn't always possible, but we do try. I told the customer to send me the bowl, the float, and the needle and seat. THE BOWL WAS ALUMINUM! There were obvious changes from the original (at the time I had a UX-4 for comparison, that has since been sold). The bowl was close, but one of the bowl cover attaching screw holes had been moved roughly 3/8 inch, and the floor of the bowl had been raised, to accomodate a totally different fuel valve, possibly from a truck. So what can I do? I hand-cut a custom gasket, and machined a duplicate of his incorrect fuel valve, and sent it back. He has since purchased other items, so guess he was happy. I cannot in good conscience call this a reproduction carburetor, as a reproduction should be an exact duplicate. This was an imitation UX-4; but the bowl WAS aluminum. Perhaps, whoever made one imitation, made more than one? Jon.

The damage you picture is quite common for the Zenith "T" series carburetors. Can it be repaired? Yes, these carbs were used on a number of motorcycles, which seem to be worth their weight in platinum The procedure is to totally disassemble the carb, use a jig, weld the crack in the casting, remachine the casting, and machine a new venturi. Read EXPENSIVE! Having answered that question, on to your second question. I have no record that Chrysler used a Zenith T4X carburetor, but I do not have complete listings for export cars. Domestically, the 1925 model 50 used a Penberthy S-1 pot metal carb. The 1925 model 58 used a Stewart model 30 (brass carb) The 1926 model 58 continued with the Stewart until mid-year, when it was replaced by a Zenith T4XF (not the T4X you have). There are a number of aftermarket carbs which may be used. Don't know what you might find in the U.K. Jon

O-3 Stromberg brass, but an internal pot metal venturi. The OX-3 was used only by Chrysler and Locomobile on passenger vehicles (but if I had a Dodge Senior Six with the UX-3 it would find an OX-3 very quicklY). Jon.

The answer is an "indefinite maybe" Regardless of the current repro one bowl fits all, but is correct for NONE; there were several different bowls. It MIGHT interchange IF you also interchange pumps, aspirator valves, metering needles/glands, etc., etc., etc. Jon

The 1929 Packard Detroit Lubricator bowls are brass, not pot metal. The mid-1929 Packard Johnson carbs were pot metal. Jon.

They can call it anything they want, as long as they have the identification when they call for a kit ! Jon

Mentioned before, but I have a different aversion: Upgrade - a term applied to any modification Lots of modifications are "downgrades" in my opinion! Jon

In a different lifetime (1973), I still had not reached my 30th birthday, so I knew almost everything about almost everything Did lots of highway driving so was looking for fuel economy. This before I was bitten by the "buy American" bug, so there was a huge slate of candidates for a new car. Settled on a Toyota Corolla 1600 with 5-speed (special order). Toyota dealer was my best friend. We spent a few nights on the non-USA parts books, and by the time the car came in, had a factory 4-tube exhaust, and a used carb which I rebuilt from a 1900. After the car came in, a set of American Racing alloy wheels, and a set of Michelin XAS tires, plus flipping the distributor (Toyota, to save money, had both the performance and the smog curves built into the distributor) completed the car. After a 1000 mile break-end, started doing some testing. Car was, for that time, a pocket rocket, low 15's 1/4 mile; and highway mileage was 39.4 MPG at 70 MPH. Enter the first oil embargo, and a national 55 MPH speed limit to "save fuel"???????????????????????????????? We had a 400 mile each way interstate trip planned for the following weekend, and while not looking forward to the time, WAS looking forward to the MPG "bragging rights". Will it do 45, 50??? Imagine my chagrin when I quickly found that 55 dropped the engine out of the torque curve; 5TH GEAR WAS NOT USABLE AT 55 MPH! I had to cruise in 4th gear! So all the work, and expense I had put into this car, plus the work by some bonehead accountants somewhere that had probably never actually seen a car, let alone driven one changing the speed limit, resulted in a final MPG of 32.3 at 55 MPH. I got to spend more time on the road, and pay for the privilege. Consider your gearing and your engine torque curve closely; or you, like I, may be bitten by the "Law of Unintended Consequences". But 0~55 was still a lot of fun! Jon

Original carburetor was a Rayfield model M-3. Finding one is not difficult; but making one work IS difficult. Jon.

Matt - your rebuilding kit is on its way, thank you for the order. A few thoughts: (1) Use two wrenches when removing the fuel line from the carburetor, one to support the fuel valve seat, the other to loosen the line. (Also use two wrenches when you re-install). (2) The kit contains new 0.058 main jets (Stromberg spec). They require a special tool (do not allow your mechanic to use needle-nose pliers). The tool is EASY to make if you do not have one. Keep the old jets; they can always be drilled oversize if necessary for tuning. (3) If the carburetor IS the culprit (not saying it is), my bet would be a previous rebuilder used too small an orifice fuel valve. The Stromberg spec was 0.128. The Grose-Jet WILL NOT supply sufficient fuel for this carburetor. Other "common" Stromberg valves with the same physical dimensions had a 0.099 orifice. (4) Be aware that the Stromberg EE-2, EE-22, EE-23, and EE-25 were what Stromberg called a "thin-wall casting". Never force the fuel valve seat; forcing it can break a very expensive bowl. Questions - 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon

Some 40 years ago, we submitted some samples of the early zinc alloy to a metallurgist. After testing, his opinion was that the early pot metal (depending on company, basically pre-1930, but different companies changed from about 1930~1938) contained significantly more lead than the later zinc alloy. And the abundance of the lead is what caused deterioration. Take the above as hearsay; I am NOT a metallurgist. Jon

(Opinion) If the car is to be a "trailer queen", driven (or pushed) ONLY from the trailer to the show-field, shine up the Johnson. If you plan to actually start, and even more, drive, the car; I would highly suggest you install a more reliable carburetor. (Or maybe just hire a 15-year-old to stand on the running board and pour gas into the engine from a leaky boot!) I am probably more paranoid than most concerning this subject; and the paranoia is NOT related to my business. In a previous lifetime (maybe 50 years ago), I lost a friend to a car fire, caused by a leaky carburetor. I have no guilt, I had nothing to do with the carburetor, but I still lost a friend. He was an older gentleman (maybe my age today), and simply could not get out of the car in time. This loss of life WAS preventable! Where there is a hot engine in close proximity to gasoline, there is a potential for fire. There are other reasons for not using some of these early carbs today for drivers, but I will not hyjack the thread. Jon

Wurstfreund - ALL Rochester Quadrajets manufactured before 1970 were the same size, 750 CFM. What is different are linkages and calibrations (fuel jets, air jets, bypasses, metering rods, rod lift, etc.). A really good rule on post-1967 carburetors is to ALWAYS use the correct original carb for the engine. Carburetor gurus with a really complete machine shop can ignore this statement. As far as shipping to Europe (or anywhere else other than the country of origin): There are many really good reasons for a small company NOT to ship outside the country of origin, ESPECIALLY during the pandemic. We do not ship outside the USA, but we have MANY European REPEAT customers that have us ship to a mail drop in the USA, and the package is then forwarded to its destination. Perhaps this would be a solution for you. Jon.

Anyone remember the Chrysler TV ads from the early 1960's where they promoted having (I don't remember exact numbers) about 2000 engineers, and fewer than 15 stylists? Well, their engines/transmissions were bullet-proof, and someone once said beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Jon.

Glenn - unless it was stored in the bottom of a pond for 50 years, heat normally works; soaking very seldom works. A carburetor is a good example of a Galvanic cell (a.k.a. battery). Two dis-similar metals in the presence of a liquid. There is ion flow, creating corrosion between the shaft and the carb body. Heat to maybe 100 degrees less than the melting point of the body will burn the oxygen out of the corrosion molecules, thus reducing the space they occupy. Then penetrating oil will sometimes work. Bloo - while the original Autolite's are scarcer than a 6-fingered poker dealer, Holley made service replacements almost as soon as the Autolites hit the street. My guess would be that any FLAPS could easily obtain a rebuilt Holley. And probably one could be ordered through a Ford dealer. And since the Holley would not have been original, there would be no premium in price. Jon

OK - first of all, I am sold out of the 144/170 carbs, so this is advice only, not an attempt to make a sale. 40 or so years ago, there was a push on demand for the 144/170 carbs to restore the small Rancheros. Add a zero to the price. 30 or so years ago, there was another push on demand for the 144/170 carbs to restore the Econoline vans. Add another zero to the price. The 144/170 carbs are scarcer than those for a K series Mustang (289/271 HP), and priced accordingly. You might be able to swap a complete running 200 CID ENGINE for less than a 144/170 carb! So not sure what your idea of reasonable would be; but take the above into account if someone offers you a genuine 144/170 carb. Again, I am sold out, and have been for 20 years! Jon.

Markus - there are considerations, and then the final decision becomes yours. First discussing the early and late 1968 8-430 carbs (7028240 -> 7028248). The only difference in these carbs is that Rochester made a modification to the float to improve fuel control; all calibrations are identical. So from a purely practical standpoint, the 7028248 would be the best carburetor to use. However, if you do not regularly drive in city traffic in temperatures approaching 35 degrees C., then the 7028240 would probably work equally as well. When was the change effected? I do not know. The Rochester documentation only shows early-late, no date or serial numbers. If Buick were as meticulous as Pontiac, then somewhere there is a Buick Service Bulletin that states "effective with serial number xxxxxxxxxxxx Rochester 7028240 was replaced with 7028248". I have a virtually complete set of Pontiac Service Bulletins, but zero Buick Bulletins. There should be 4 additional numbers in the same area as the part number on the carburetor. This is the "date code". These four digits are in the format "jjjy" where jjj are the three digit julian day, and the y is the last digit in the year. Thus a date code of 3657 would decode to the 365th day (December 31st) of 1967. A date code of 0018 would decode to the 1st day of January 1968. If you are building a numbers-matching show vehicle (you state you wish to keep it as original as possible), date codes are important. Conventional wisdom is that the date on accessories such as the carburetor should precede the build date of the vehicle by from two weeks to ten weeks. (If you don't care about matching numbers, then the date code information can be regarded as extra, unnecessary trivia). Where do you get either? Again, I do not know; I am sold out of both, and no longer buying carburetors. You have a third option, but I do not suggest it, merely stating that it is possible. If you can locate someone that is well-versed in the modification of Rochester Quadrajets, the 7028244 you currently have, may, at great expense, be modified to think that it is a 7028248. There would be many expensive parts to be replaced, plus some machine work. Again, this is an option I would not suggest. As far as other options (different brand of carb, etc.), will leave these alone, as all of them will require engineering (modified fuel line, modified air cleaner, etc., etc., etc.). Simply not worth the effort in my opinion for a basically stock engine. Jon.

Kartman did send PM, and the short answer is NO! The 726s in stock form would run EXTREMELY LEAN on the 248 in stock form. Now, if this is going to be duplicate of one of the cars that ran in the old Mexican Road Race in the early 1950's; and one increases compression on the 248, changes to a racing camshaft, changes the ignition system to magneto, fabricates a set of headers, and changes the rear gears. THEN changes the metering rods, vacuum spring, main jets, and air bleeds in the 726s; it would run like a scalded dog ABOVE 2000 RPM! Anyone that would claim they are directly interchangeable either has one they are trying to sell and doesn't care about repeat customers; or they flunked 7th grade physics! The Carter WCD is one of the (opinion) top 3 most reliable, simplistic, easy to work with 2-barrels ever made at any time, any price, or anywhere. Additionally, it is right up on the top, easily seen, thus easily blamed for everything! For decades, I have posted that the older updraft carburetors were "much more reliable than the newer downdrafts"! WHY? Because they are much harder to remove, and someone will actually determine the real problem before tackling the carburetor Why not post the top of that "endless list of ongoing issues"? Perhaps someone on the forums can help you wade through the list. Even if yours does turn out to be not rebuildable, used cores ARE readily available, and reasonable in price. Jon.

From my website: 1968 Buick carburetors 1968 6 250 A/T Rochester MV 7028014 2454 1968 6 250 S/T Rochester MV 7028047 2455 1968 8 350 A/T Rochester QJET 7028244 1820 1968 8 350 A/T Rochester 2-GV 7028140 2456 1968 8 350 S/T Rochester 2-GV 7028141 2457 1968 8 350 S/T Rochester QJET 7028245 1819 1968 8 400 Early A/T Rochester QJET 7028242 1821 1968 8 400 Early S/T Rochester QJET 7028243 1821 1968 8 400 Late A/T Rochester QJET 7028246 1818 1968 8 400 Late S/T Rochester QJET 7028247 1818 1968 8 430 Early A/T Rochester QJET 7028240 1821 1968 8 430 Late A/T Rochester QJET 7028248 1818 Jon.

Matt - before throwing rocks at the carb, check the fuel pressure. That carb likes 2~3 psi, and does NOT like 4 psi. There was a vendor building fuel pumps and selling kits whose philosophy was "if the part fits, its the right part"! I have seen some of their pumps put out ridiculous pressures. Not going to light anyone up; fuel pressure is easy to test. Fuel coming out the vent indicates bad float (I hope not), bad fuel valve, bad float adjustment, or too much fuel pressure. You might get lucky. At this stage, would say you are entitled to some good luck! Jon

Matt - I am rather late to this thread, and don't really want to read 17 pages of posts. You mentioned running hot, and the carb needing choke. My guess would be you will find your issues in other than the carb, but two things come to mind concerning the carb: (1) Lincoln used a number of different Stromberg type EE-22 carbs. The earlier ones had internal venturii of 1 3/32 inches. The later ones including yours would have come with venturii of 1 3/16 inches. The fraction size is cast on either one side of the bowl, or the end of the bowl. For decades, less than honest (or possibly knowledgeable) individuals have sold these old carburetors by type rather than application. If the owner's manual said Stromberg EE-22, then obviously ANY EE-22 would be correct. (2) For some time, a "2-ball" aftermarket fuel valve was popular. Will comment ONLY that we sold a lot of rebuilding kits to folks to replace these things as they would not allow sufficient fuel flow for the larger engines. If fuel flow is insufficient, then the fuel bowl level would be low, and choke would be required. Jon

Dennis - I honestly don't know. I do know that "sizes" in this time period violate the "truth in advertising" idea. If it were mine, I would try to find another Studebaker owner that thinks he has an original, and get pictures and measurements. Jon.