carbking

I would like to send a special shout-out to Paul, who was kind enough to send me various identification numbers on this carburetor for my database. California carburetors are fairly rare in Missouri. Folks like Paul really help me to attempt to answer questions on these forums. So Paul...................................THANKS! Jon.

Trini - the information that I have is that there were THREE different carbs used by Dodge in 1928 on the Senior 6. First - Stromberg type TX-2 Second - Stromberg type UX-2 Third - Stromberg type UX-3 The "X" in the above types means "cross-flange". Or if one draws a straight line from mounting stud to mounting stud, and extended the line, the line would run from fender to fender. A straight flange carburetor's line would run bumper to bumper. The "2" and "3" in these types refers to the S.A.E. standard flange size. Size 2 is a "nominal" 1 1/4 inch carb with throttle opening of approximately 1 7/16, and center to center mounting of 2 11/16 inches. Size 3 is a "nominal" 1 1/2 inch carb with throttle opening of approximately 1 5/8 and center to center mounting of 2 15/16 inches. Checking the Carter literature, THERE IS NO BB-1 THAT MAY BE BOLTED ON SUCCESSFULLY WITHOUT MODIFICATIONS! The 289s or 289sa may be used (with the 72-39 cross-flange adapter), but THE INTERNAL JETTING MUST BE CHANGED. Yes, I know both have the adjustable MAIN metering jet, but the power jet must also be changed. There are few (if any) ORIGINAL Stromberg UX-2 or UX-3 carburetors that are still usable left in our solar system! They are both die-cast (pot metal) and have all cracked to pieces. A gentleman in Australia has reproduced the UX-2 castings. One can acquire those castings, and an original Stromberg UX-2 for float, throttle shaft, etc., and copies of the original Stromberg UX-2 bill-of-material and fabricate the jets; and have a working carburetors as Dodge used in EARLY 1928. HOWEVER: GUESSING here that Dodge was not happy with the performance of the smaller UX-2, and cast a new intake manifold for the larger UX-3 in mid-1928. Stromberg started with the type A carburetor in 1909, and was up to the type U in 1928. But the type O, one type back from the T, was brass. Several enthusiasts have acquired the earlier type O (in your case either the OX-2 - early, or OX-3 - late), and calibrated them like the newer die-cast U series carbs for their specific applications. I do not have serial number break-downs on when the carburetors were changed in 1928. I would highly suggest attempting to find the later manifold IF IT WILL FIT THE ENGINE, I DO NOT KNOW (the Senior Six was also available with the Stromberg UX-3 in 1929). Now you have a manifold with sufficient airflow, and you can make a decision on a carburetor. Choices would be recast a UX-3, recalibrate an OX-3, or, if you prefer, some replacement such as a properly modified Carter BB-1 289s/sd. This is a classic example of what Ed has preaching for years about using original carbs. Different carbs sometimes MAY be used, but rarely in a haphazard fashion; research is necessary for best results. As to the Carter BB-1: other than O.E. applications, the enthusiast should be interested ONLY in the 245s,sa,sd, the BB-1A,BB-1D, and the 289sa, and 289sd. Then Carter documentation should be consulted for absolute fit, as in this case. Those engineers REALLY did know what they were doing! Jon

For those that totally disregard my advice on using the Tillotson, we do fabricate a carburetor rebuilding kit. Part number CS-1796. I do not recommend using the carb. Jon.

I quit Hemmings when the internet came out and I got my own website. The first decade of my website was cheaper than one month full-page ad in HMN. As for other magazines, too much "revisionist history" and "untech" articles to suit me, I quit them decades ago. If you want to put a Holley 4150 on your 1956 T-Bird, it is your car, and your choice; but I object when you lie to a magazine writer who doesn't know better about the pains you took to keep the car 100 percent original, and the lie is published for future generations. And I well remember a much respected magazine publishing an article that the "hot" modification on a Corvette dual quad set-up was to replace the power piston springs with those from a Paper-Mate ball point pen! Jon.

Good choice! Lots of folks think they can make any Q-Jet work on any application because they are virtually all the same size (750, 800, and a VERY few 850's) I can count the number of folks that I personally know that can do this on the thumbs of my left hand (and it isn't me!). One of the worse messes I ever got into was a GTO carb that just wouldn't idle, even after a pretty sharp local rebuilt it. He brought it to me (he's still a good friend, even after bringing me this pile of *&^%$). I took it apart, and at first blush it looked great. Then starting checking air bleeds, restrictors, etc. and found some previous owner had obviously wanted to run this thing on a Chevrolet, and had installed Chevrolet idle air bleeds. So the carb had TWO sets of idle air bleeds, both the Pontiac and the added Chevrolet ones (Chevy and Pontiac used air bleeds in a different area of the carb). Would you believe it was VERY lean? Fabricated some threaded plugs and installed in the aftermarket Chevy air bleeds with red loctite, and it ran great. How many enthusiasts that have rebuilt a few carbs are going to look for, or recognize this bit of chicanery? Not a hard and fast rule, but a good rule of thumb when it comes to carb calibrations, is there is Chevrolet, and there is everyone else! Trying to migrate a Chevy carb to anything else, or a carb from anything else to a Chevy requires WORK! In the FWIW category, the 1967 Q-Jets still had a couple of design problems. They CAN be overcome, if one knows what one is doing, but Rochester released service replacement Q-Jets for the 1967 Buick, and they require less mods, and are far more reliable. NOT GRINDING MY OWN AX, I DON'T HAVE ANY, DON'T ASK! Just providing info. Unless the car is numbers matching, I would suggest checking some of the Buick folks for the SR carbs. As Glenn mentioned, there are a VERY FEW Q-Jets that did not have primary rods, piston and spring; but you have a better chance of winning an argument with the IRS than finding one! I think in the last 50 years, I have owned two, and they are long gone. Jon.

We have a local radio station that has what they call the "Country Sale", where listeners may call in, and share items they have for sale.I rarely buy, sometimes sell, but always listen to the program for the entertainment.Today:(1) Lady calls in selling a 2004 something car with a really good engine, a pristine interior, good tires, etc. THE ENGINE ISN'T RUNNING WELL, AND THE DEALERSHIP CANNOT FIGURE OUT WHATS WRONG!(2) Sponsor is a car repair shop. "Our average mechanic has over 60 years experience"??? How old are these mechanics?(3) Lady calls in selling a brand new chain saw for her husband. It has only been used a few times.Jon

Back to the OP's original question: Since the ad you posted has a Zenith carburetor number, it is quite easy to look up. This carburetor will work well on two models of Yale fork lifts!!! Probably very little else. It is not adjustable like the more expensive Zenith universal (but still cheap) carburetors. There are no cars or trucks (road vehicles) for which I would personally sell this carburetor, at any price. Jon.

Steve - thank you. I did walk away for a month or so a few years ago, but a "forum friend" talked me back. Us old geezers (Ed, by contrast, is a young whippersnapper ) need to share our accumulated knowledge (or lack thereof) with those who will be old geezers in a few decades. One thing many fail to understand is that sarcasm or irony may be difficult to recognize in print. Someone can get hurt feelings when there was no intent to hurt feelings, and strike back. As to your Johnson experiences: 3 or 4 decades ago (long before the internet) a gentleman who specializes in Packards wanted to reproduce the Johnsons used by Packard for a few months in 1929 (ONLY). As we had spoken at Hershey, he knew I had several Johnson Packard parts carburetors. He owned various shops in the orient, and could have new castings done from better metal. We had several conversations via telephone. As he was a friend, and a good customer, plus the fact the Johnsons I had could never be made to function (Packard found in 1929 they didn't function after only a few months and recalled them!), I told him to expect a package via UPS. I packaged 3 or 4 Johnsons, along with an unopened bottle of Bayer, and sent them to him. I really think he appreciated my concern for his mental health about trying to make the Johnsons function and had sent him the Bayer! He called the day after receiving the package, and we had another long conversation. The cars are the glue that keeps us together, but the friendships we make are probably much more important in the long run. Jon.

Title states 1927. Body of post states 1937. Picture shows updraft carb, which eliminates 1937. Would be nice to know EXACTLY WHICH 1927 model for which you need a carburetor. The intake is of the cross-flange variety, so GUESSING model 70 or model 72. Jon.

Zenith makes carburetors WITH power circuits, and carburetors WITHOUT power circuits. The carburetors WITH power circuits normally sell for about 3 times the price of the ones without. The ones W/O, IF PROPERLY SIZED to the airflow of the engine; CAN work fairly well in FLAT terrain. Do not confuse the power circuit with the adjustable main metering jet, which only can adjust the main metering circuit. The power circuit, when present, will augment the fuel supplied by the main metering circuit when the operator calls for additional power (climbing a grade, etc.). Many enthusiasts seem to rate a replacement carburetor if/if not the carburetor has an accelerator pump. Very few low compression engines with updraft carburetors will benefit from an accelerator pump. If fact, a true accelerator pump (rather than a vacuum pump) is NOT a good idea. The true accelerator pump is one of two gripes I have with the Carter BB-1. And granted, many early carburetors did not have power circuits, and they did run, however, they may run significantly better with the power circuit. The thing to remember when making changes (I don't buy the universal modern buzzword "upgrade", many are "downgrades"), is that each component should be ENGINEERED to the overall function of the engine. A modern Holley Dominator 4-barrel is NOT going to improve the horsepower of an otherwise stock Model A Ford engine. This may sound like a ridiculous example, and it is; but I get calls from enthusiasts every telephone day that are almost as ridiculous. A new, made by some unknown maker, "carburetor", with a 32 mm venturi when the engine wants a 26 mm venturi, is just as ridiculous. Check the third and fourth lines in my signature block. EDIT: and to the OP, I have sold hundreds of these carburetors in the last 50 years, so yes, I do have experience with them. The key is to determine the TOTAL NEEDS of the customer, not just the lowest price! Those carbs do NOT work well on cars here in the Missouri Ozarks. Jon.

A replacement carburetor of a quality manufacturer that WAS ENGINEERED SPECIFICALLY FOR YOUR ENGINE is not necessarily a bad idea. A replacement carburetor, even from a quality manufacturer, that is a universal "one size fits all, works well on none" is NOT a good idea. A cheap replacement carburetor from somewhere from an unknown manufacturer is never a good idea. Zenith is a quality manufacturer, but many of their offerings are for fixed RPM engines; how many gears are in your transmission? Jon.

Insufficient information to state exactly, but probably not. Which is not to say lots of ebay folks wouldn't try it! As Matt stated, the Lincolns were manual choke, as were most of the truck applications. The Lincoln 382 used 1 3/32 venturii. Stromberg literature shows the 414 using 1 3/16 venturii. Would have to positively identify what you have, then pull the prints for both to be certain. The bowls are fragile. Remember ALWAYS use two wrenches when removing/attaching the fuel line to the carburetor. The revised bowls (with EE-22 casting rather than EE-2) are much less fragile, but still fragile. Jon.

Stromberg produced 117 different type EE-22 carburetors, many were for trucks. I have never seen a list sorted by venturii size. P-17922 is not a carburetor number rather a number for a casting "blank" (prior to machining). The first EE-22 was produced for the 1933 model year; however, all 1933 EE-22's that I have worked on actually had EE-2 cast on the bowl (they were NOT EE-2's). In 1934, the die was modified to reflect EE-22. Jon.

I can furnish a rebuilding kit, made in the USA. 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon.

Nash did in fact have a downdraft manifold in 1931. The 880 used a Marvel model D? DN? DO? Marvel literature in this period is not consistent. Different references call this carburetor a DO, and a DN. These early Marvel downdraft carbs were used on Nash, Oakland, and Pontiac. I can understand the Oakland model (and probably the Pontiac model) being a DO, and the Nash model being a DN; but Marvel, in some references, also called the Nash version a DO. Like Stromberg, and Carter; the first Marvel downdraft carburetors basically used "updraft technology" on top of the engine. Probaby the nicest compliment one can make about the Marvel (and Carter) is they used this one year only! Stromberg spent 4 years before they obsoleted the updraft on top design. Jon

From memory, there are maybe 15 different. In a different lifetime, we had all of them reproduced, because a rebuilding kit without the spring is (opinion) not a rebuilding kit. We do not sell the springs ala carte, only as a part of the rebuilding kit. I do not, from memory, know which length fits what, so will agree tentatively with Hans1 about the applications that use the 1 1/2 and 1 1/16 inch springs. When we originally offered the rebuilding kits, I was younger, and more foolish and had maybe just watched "Field of Dreams" It costs MONEY to reproduce parts which often fit only 1 carburetor. Again from memory, there are approximately 125 different O.E. Marvel carbs, for which we offer 61 different kits. Jon

It appears to be a Stromberg. The model type and size should be cast on one or the other sides of the carburetor. Examples: M-2, O-3, etc. The letter is the model, the number is the size. Float is brass (read expensive, if available). Rebuilding kits are available. Jon.

From my website: BRASS FLOATS Many mechanics have been conditioned to ask for a float each time they rebuild a carburetor, due to the reasonable price of modern, mass-produced floats, and the propensity of nitrophyl (foam) floats to absorb gasoline after time. In dealing with older, NON-CURRENT-PRODUCTION brass floats, neither of the above are true, and a mechanic should attempt to 'save' the float if at all possible. The first step is to clean the float and inspect it for obvious damage. Small dings and dents are quite common, even in unused floats, and occurred when the manufacturer shipped the floats in bulk. Major dents (generally caused by water freezing in the carburetor) are not generally repairable. If one can hear liquid sloshing around inside the float, skip to the next paragraph. If the float looks to be reasonably damage-free, it should be tested. Testing is accomplished by grasping the float arm with a pair of needle-nose pliers, and submerging the float in very hot water. The hot water will pressurize the air inside the float, and a leaky float will blow a stream of bubbles. If the float should need repair, it is important to understand how the float was originally produced. Virtually all brass float pontoons (the floating part) are composed of two pieces (a few are more) of brass soldered together. The pieces differ in the seam area, as one piece has a male seam and the other a female seam. One float piece will also have a small hole for temperature equilization. This hole will be covered by a small drop of solder, and will be as far from the seam as possible. The manufacturer would solder the two pieces together, allow the float to cool completely, AND THEN close the equilization hole. Soldering MUST be done using a soldering 'iron'. Repair should not be attempted using either a torch, or a soldering gun. If you plan on disregarding this advice, read the next paragraph first! The following procedure works for us (no, we will not repair your float unless we restore the entire carburetor): First, if liquid is present inside the float, find the hole, and remove the liquid by placing the hole down inside the hot water. The pressure will force the liquid from the float. If the float has much liquid, it may be necessary to remove the float from the hot water, allow the float to cool, and repeat the hot water dip. Once the liquid has been removed, and the leak has been marked, open the equilization hole by removing the solder. Solder the leak closed using as little solder as possible. A small piece of tape over the equilization hole will allow the hot water test to be preformed. If there are no leaks, remove the tape, and ALLOW THE FLOAT TO COOL COMPLETELY before closing the equilization hole. A final test, and you have 'saved' a valuable float. In the event of a float which cannot be saved, or one that is missing, or incorrect, The Carburetor Shop has an excellent selection of USED floats dating back to the early teens. These floats are inspected, cleaned, and tested by us; and are sold only with the purchase of a carburetor kit. With no offense meant to anyone, THESE FLOATS ARE NOT RETURNABLE FOR ANY REASON. One tip that sounds strange until you think about it: when soldering the float, hold the float in your bare fingers. If the float gets too hot to hold, you don't have enough heat!!!!!

Need to know the EXACT tag number (if Rochester) or stamped/tag number (if Carter). Rochester used at least 19 different floats in the various 4-GC carbs. Carter used at least 5 different. We go by original prints, not pictures. But in the FWIW category, the one pictured APPEARS to be for a much later Carter 9000 series AFB; it is NOT a Buick Float. Jon.

Paul (the OP) called this morning, and we had a long conversation; so jumping back into the thread. While I generally agree with Ed about his above post, in this case, I must disagree with part of it. The Stromberg D series carbs to include the DX-3, the DXR-3 (the OP's carb), the DXC-3, and the 2-barrel DD-3 and DDR-3 were never good carbs. These were Stromberg's first attempt at downdraft carbs (remember the introduction of a pressure fuel pump); and basically Stromberg used updraft technology, and sat it on top of the intake manifold. Carter did the same thing with their U series, but that is a different story. The Stromberg E series superseded the D series, and the E series was a totally different design from the D series. Stromberg admitted that the D series were not that good, and offered replacement E series carbs to replace ALL original D series carbs. This in the 1933~1934 time period. So to Ed's comment about making the originals work: I am sure Ed can make a DXR-3 work, I can make one work, but how well? Well, as well as the original design, which Stromberg admitted wasn't good, will allow; BUT: Rebuilding a D series Stromberg REQUIRES a set of special tools, which haven't been available since before I was born (we fabricated our set from the prints when we were still restoring carbs). Once the carb is apart, there will be a number of pieces made from zinc alloy (pot metal) that become machine shop parts and foundry parts (read VERY expensive). So what is the goal for the car? Show only? Drive in parades only? Some summer drives for enjoyment? The OP's engine is a 298 CID. I suggested that for DRIVING, a modern Carter YF from a Ford 300 CID would be a good choice. The YF had a production run from 1950 through 1985 (not bad, certainly suggests that a few were happy with the carburetor). The Ford 300 carbs are common as dirt, and parts AND SPECIFICATIONS are readily available, plus it has the same S.A.E. size 3 flange as the DXR-3, AND it was made in the USA. Linkage and fuel line will need some work, but an inexpensive carburetor of the correct size that can be obtained relatively easily and inexpensively. Jon.

The original Kingston assembly prints show 3/8 inch on the L-4 and 13/32 inch on the L-2 from the top of the float surface to the casting when the fuel valve is closed. Either dimension would give a FUEL LEVEL of approximately 7/16 inch. Jon.

Quote "The carburetor is a Y200 Universal Zenith Downdraft 1 barrel New Zenith 28/228 type replacement" End quote OK - I am done with this thread, other than to wish you good luck. Jon.

Would be nice to know the identification number on the new Zenith carburetor. Jon.

In alphabetic order: Case, Knox. Jon.

All of the 215 CID 4-barrels were Rochester. This link will show you the various numbers: https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Kbuick2.htm Jon.