Buffalowed Bill

Maybe a little to premature, but so far I seem to be hearing that there isn't a Riviera for every legitimate purchaser. If that's correct, then how is it that a gentleman responding to a previous thread indicated that he had looked at 30 cars, over several years, before he found the right one for him? There are numerous cars in my collection that finding 30 cars like them, in my lifetime, would be impossible. In fact I would go so far as to say that none of my 25 collector cars, could I find 30 of, in several years.They're either hard to find, or there are many from which to choose, both can't be true.

In my collection I have two Rivieras a 1963 and an all original 1965. There appears to be more then enough first gen Rivieras, that have survived, to satisfy everyone who really wants one ( at least four or five times the expected survival rate of an American production car). For someone willing to wait it seems that a buyer can find about anything he wants color, condition, price and local. Maybe not unsurprisingly the 1965 GS seems to the holy grail for Riv fans. I hope my observation is not mis-characterizing the car's appeal. Correct me if you don't agree, but this has been my observation nonetheless. So my question is how important is the GS option, when it comes down to choosing a car, when condition, year, originality and color etc. are factored in? Bill

Find your Crystal ball, but when it fails to answer your inquiry, throw up your hands, plunk down $20-35K and buy it because you like it. I happen to like the concept, but I like the Crossfire too, but it's in a specialty market, to which I might add the 2002-2003 Thunderbird and the Jaguar XK8. If I were going to bet on niche market, I would bet on the Mercedes SLK, because of the company's international appeal.

Yes, in answer to your question there was a problem. For all not old enough to remember, ALL of the new overhead V8's from 1949-51 were experiencing premature cam-shaft wear. Some manufacturers chose to replace just the C/S (Chrysler, Studebaker) Cadillac no doubt felt inclined to change out the whole engine. Eventually advances in metallurgy, and improving the engine oil additive packages to include zinc and phosphorous, and in Studebaker's case reducing valve spring tension, solved the problem.

I love your car! I can't believe some of the low numbers that some are throwing out. It looks like a solid car to me, what does the odometer read? A bit of the car's history could fill in some of the blanks. Try to resist doing anything with it until you at least find out if the engine is free. If it isn't free put some penetrant down the plug holes, and try to free it up. I can't imagine this car-solid with a free rotating engine, and some history, being worth less then $9-11k. I would love to have it in my garage! Do some research-tell us a story, we love a good story. Search out the Nash club, maybe there is a chapter close by. Ask questions, find out how many might have survived. Try to resist low ball offers. If nobody steps forward with an offer you can't resist, wait until spring and put it on Ebay. Then contact us, to let us know that it's there. Who knows some of us may be willing to bid for it.-Bill

Please don't become to overwhelmed with pity for those of us who live in the PNW. We are not trapped by any circumstance, other then we love it here. IMO people are either car people or they aren't. For most of my seventy five years I've been one. Was I hard wired, or did the post war environment cause the malady? I can't really say, but I still remember at age four or five the two days that I saw my first Cord convertible, and my first Jaguar XK120. It would be years before I was able to find out what the Cord was, but the image of that car was etched into my brain, like a photo. So the next time I saw one, it was an epiphany. As a young man I never felt hamstrung financially. Worked my way through college working nights on a green chain in a sawmill. I put off collecting until I could see that I was going to be able to finish school. When I began collecting I bought what I could afford. Only once in my life have I taken out a loan to buy a car, and it wasn't a new car. Rented space in a chicken barn served as a garage, when I ran out of garage space. Was I blessed or damned, you be the judge. I have decent collection, but I am no longer an active collector, however I never say never. I no longer suffer remorse for passing up a car that ten of fifteen years ago I would have been all over. When it's my time, I have a young soul mate who is as much a car person as am I. She says that she will be more then happy to deal with the mess that I've created. i did it my way, life is good! I believe that many of us were car people first, before we were old car people. In my case being a car person first has it pluses and minuses. It has allowed me to move from ere to era, car manufacturer to car manufacturer, and from country to country seamlessly without prejudice. In other words I like them all. I feel a bit of sadness for people who limit themselves. But I have hope for all car people. Unlike the epiphany that I experienced years ago, my immersion came gradually. I also don't feel the need to own everything that I love. I feel fortunate to be able to get equally excited when seeing a 1981 imperial, an original 1975 Chrysler Cordoba, 1962 Jaguar XKE, 1953 Studebaker Starliner, 1949 Cadillac Sedanette, 1932 Graham Blue Streak, 1925 Locomobile touring, or a 1914 Pierce Arrow-66 hp (any model). It's your hobby so enjoy, but do it your way!

There were about 600 Model 92's built. I've been around these since the 70's, I helped a friend buy and, aided in the restoration of the red 33, now in the Studebaker museum. There are about 10 surviving 92's, in all body styles surviving. The chassis would be the last of the famous straight 8, arguably the most successful of all the cars from the stock cars, that were run at Indianapolis 500. this would be the last hurrah for the Classic Studebaker. All subsequent Presidents 1933, Model 82-1942 model year would have the 250 cu" straight 8, which began life as the Commander in 1929. In answer to the original question, yes there is one that has survived. It belongs to a man who lives in Mich. I've seen the car it's nice but not a concourse restoration. He's had it for many years and unless something has changed, he's not about to part with it any time soon.-Bill I edited my original post, deleting the owners name, for the sake of his privacy.

I fear if the global or US economy depended on me, and people like me, to sustained growth, it would soon falter. I am one of those outliers who seldom buys anything new. Sure I buy disposable stuff like gas and food, but my durable items come from the secondary market, when on the rear occasion that I buy any. I find it rewarding to be able to utilize what many, in our throw away society, would dispose of. I'm fortunate that I like to utilize old things. On every level from style, cost, recycling by using, to saving natural resources, it's a win. I also take pride in being able to utilize obsolete technologies without any undue hardships. I drive twenty five year old cars, recline in antique furniture, and believe that remodeling for the sake of styling is an expensive trap. I still get much of my news from the newspaper and I don't own a smart phone. Car shopping for me is searching for that special old car, and then driving it. Would I like to be driving a Tesla, hell yes, and if I live long enough maybe I'll be able to afford a used one, but until then I'm content.

I found out something that had my head spinning. For the last eighty years hydroelectric power has been a mainstay of the power needs in the West. One of the leaders in this has been the Bonneville power grid, and the dams which provided the power. The system has provided most of the West with reasonably priced electricity, while irrigating thousands of acres of farmland. California with a seemingly insatiable demand for power has depended on BP. Suddenly, and seemingly overnight, the demand has slowed to a trickle. The reason is that the SW has developed it own sources of renewable energy (solar and wind). Just shows how quickly technology can change the playing field. To my mind it must be a good thing, but I'll leave it the people smarter the I, to sort things out.

What irritates me is having to educate counter help, when you know that the part is probably on the shelf. You guys with newer post war, Big Three cars are lucky, you should try this with a Studebaker. At least you don't have to educate the kid behind the counter who made your Chevrolet.

Ah! the optimism of youth, there is nothing quite like it. I tried to put myself in your position, which was almost fifty years ago. I remembered my first restoration, people said I couldn't, wouldn't, or shouldn't do it, but I believed that I could, would, should, and I did it. You have time on your side. Your only real limitation is your willingness to undertake, and stick to a project like this one. If you were to ask me whether you can, and should undertake it my answer is, hell yes! Time is on your side, but only you can answer the question of whether you will see it through. I have a friend who years ago told me, "if you have an itch you have to scratch it." How bad is your itch?

I really like your car(s) you have good taste. Forget the feeling that you paid too much for the Dodge, you didn't! Restraint is your best course of action. In other words try to keep it original and do as little as possible to make it presentable and derivable. I doubt that you are going to see many of these around. Join a local Chrysler club they will love it, and you will love that they love it. I've always been passionate about Jaguars. We own four, but nothing like yours. The last XK120 I passed on was about thirty years ago, when my wife (now X-wife) wanted to drive it daily, and I said no. I backed off from the purchase, from an old friend, when I saw that our happy home might be at risk. The biggest mistake in my fifty years as a collector. Good luck, looking forward to the pictures and hearing about your progress. Bill

It's hard to believe but it's been almost twenty eight years since I showed my car at Pebble Beach. It was an honor to have the car invited, and I'll always treasure the memory of the event. Since my experience was so long ago my experience may vary from some the the events current practices, so try to adjust for the then and now. At the time I showed, in 1991, all of the cars on the show field were "Classics," or exotics, all were 100 pt. cars, and all had been thoroughly vetted through other concourse judging events, or that had been prepared by persons trusted to always present the best cars (i.e. JB Nethercutt). What should be understood is that this event was a show of construed excellence, where each car had to fulfill a subjectively chosen niche, or theme. In other words it is all about the show, and it is for all practical purposes a "French" judging event. All of us who have judged and who have had a car judged, have a pretty good idea of what judging looks like. A team descends and introduces themselves and asks the owner to start the engine, checks all the components operation, asks questions about authenticity and finally inspects for condition. Where Pebble is concerned it's all about the show so engines are not started, horns not sounded etc. That does not mean that engines are not started as a special show for the audience, but just not part of the judging. It has been my impression that these judges know these car inside and out, before they are driven onto the show field, so what is really happening is the judging team is verifying what they already know about the car. Then the cars subjectively evaluated, according to their special features which makes them stand out. I realize that the show has changed with the times. There have been themes that do not comport with the old standards, with which I remember. Passage of time has also dulled some of the memories, so if I got some things wrong, or if there have been significant changes, I hope someone will make corrections.

I guess that I don't understand why G-R didn't wick all the way into the rotted area. Admittedly I have never used it for boat repair. Maybe it doesn't do a very good job of replacing the liquid in a rotted, water soaked piece of wood. Or maybe the area it was expected to flow was too large. My wood framing issues have been both bone dry, and no more then about four inches, inclusive of rotted, and solid wood. In these applications I could actually see that the rot and filler material (sawdust) were completely saturated. I've also used it to tighten dried out, loose finger joints. I still own the first car that I used in on, and still holding up nicely after forty one years.

I'm enjoying the thread. It's really taken off, with Franklin becoming it's poster child. I might mention that all Franklins are CCCA "Classics." That might not mean anything to most here, but it can change the dynamics for showing and driving tours. I'v always been enthralled by the 1932-34, Franklin V12, especially the Club Brougham. A real melding of the form and function for which the opulence of the "Classic Era" is noted. I still remember the first time I saw one fifty years ago, in the old Harrah's collection.

Silver solder is the way to go. I've done it numerous times. Taking the cover off might seem like the right way to do it, but uncrimping the cover is going to cause you untold grief. These are very brittle, and you will not doubt get multiple, additional cracks, and putting it back on should be done while turning it on a lathe.

I don't know if this is of any value, but I have a 1988 Jaguar XJSC. It uses a V12 mated to a TH 400, but as I recall it has a unique, much thinner housing. This was a stock application, but I don't know whether it was used on anything else. A little research could prove beneficial, as any XJS with this setup could be easily found. As an aside I had a 1963 Cutlass convertible, years ago, and former brother in law had a full sized Olds, both with a Slim-Jim-what a piece of junk those were! The mechanics called them jerk-a-matic, need I say more? I own both a 1963 and a 1965 Riviera, the former with the last iteration of the Dynaflow, the later TH 400. They are definitely different, but I like both. I honestly don't know why so many don't like the Dynaflow, they are so smooth. The power and toque of that engine, and the multiplier affect of the torque-converter, just take smooth to a different level.

I second Git-Rot, I've used it for forty years. When kwik Poly came out years later, I thought that I would try it. It was as though they had just copied Git-Rot. I went back to the original. I guess that I'm kind of old school, I kind of dislike when someone blatantly copies another's product. The main difference that I saw was marketing, G-R was primarily marketed for the maritime industry, while K-P marketed their product fro the antique auto industry.

It looks like a 1960 Plymouth Savoy.

I don't know if anything that I have to say will strike a chord, but decisions that I made many years ago have help define who I am, and what I own. I own a number of cars, from all eras, but when it comes to the years you are interested in, it is all Studebaker and Pierce Arrow. I was a Studebaker owner before I became interested in the "Classic Era" cars. That was more then fifty years ago, so it was easy to slide into the cars that I chose to own. I'm not trying to sell you on either of my choices, even though I think that they would be a good choice. It's the independent car companies that I would urge you to consider. From styling to engineering innovation, it was often the independents that led the way during this period. Ask yourself if owning a car that you can take to any cruise night, or car show, where you will find other similar cars and owners, with the same interests that you have, is what you want, or whether you willing to tell the story of what you have, over and over again. I made that choice so many years ago and never looked back. Showing, driving and sharing some of the knowledge that I have picked up, over the years, and the eyes that have been opened, has been an opportunity that I wouldn't have missed for the world. For me it's always been important to be willing to answer a question without coming off as a no-it-all. There has never been the need to search out an audience, because real car people really want to understand. It's not always easy, because telling the story can interfere with enjoying the car show, but it's an obligation that I don't take lightly. Good luck, I laud you in your choice of era, now just choose what suites you best.-Bill

I think that your needs would be better served by going the the Studebaker Driver's Club forum (SDC). Your car is essentially a 1958 Studebaker Golden Hawk with fiberglass front end pieces grafted on.

Have to know which cars they used for their study, to make any sense of of this. By the article's tone, I'm guessing some high end Classics and exotics have to be a large of the sample.

I've commented on this previously, so was a little reluctant to be redundant, but here goes. IMO our preference for ww's or bw's is hardwired into each of us by what was popular when we grew up, and when we became interested in cars. Ww's have been available in virtually every era, but like paint colors, preferences changed with what was prevalent, at the time. In other words our preferences are determined with what we grew up with, and those preferences are subconsciously transferred to cars of other eras, irrespective of historical norms. I'll try to limit my use of the Classic era as an illustration, because I didn't live through the Depression. Until the 50's tires were an expensive wear item, and didn't last very long. Ww's were a little more expensive so many saw them as an extravagance, that they couldn't afford, so their use was reserved for dress up. For about 20 years from the Depression through the early 50's most buyers were just glad to have wheels, and any tires would do, as long as they held air. Beginning in the early 50's things change dramatically, as manufactures dressed up there offerings for a very competitive market. Bright paint combinations, chrome, and ww's changed the look of what we bought and what we learned to like. The era of the ww's lasted for about 25 years, until about 1980. But beginning in the late 60's things began to change, as the young people begin to rebel against their father's proclivity for ww's. The look that they liked all included bw's. The look went along with terms like "tough" and "cool," and really went along with a cultural change. So your grandfather's 1950 Buick, that he bought new, came with bw's. When your uncle Jim got it in the 60's he put ww's on it. When you got the car in the 80's, off came the ww's, and on came the bw's. We never looked back. Generations have grown old with little or no memory of ww's, much less want to put them on their cross-over. So in spite of the fact that probably three quarters of 1967 Camaros came with ww's, few if any are seen with them today. My guess is that when we old timers are gone there will be few vestiges of ww's remaining. Be patient you won't have long to wait.

I have used stop leak products but only on a beater that I was trying to squeeze a few more miles out of. Disconnect heater hoses from the engine side of the outlet and the inlet and connect a hose in their place, thus bypassing the heater core. You'll have no heat though.

Is the owner anxious to sell, or just checking for value? My advice is for the owner to wait until spring, or in the case of Idaho panhandle May. Then people can get out and check out the cars. My lady is in Coeur D' Alene and claims that there is no snow right know, but we know that conditions might change tomorrow. IMO bad time to sell a car, especially where they are located.