wayne sheldon

Don't confuse the "cable cars" with "electric trolley cars". San Francisco has BOTH! Electric trolley cars are basically a bus or sometimes even an open delivery truck that may run on the street itself or on a train type track either in the street or separate from the street. They may be powered by batteries carried on the trolley, or from an electrical cable carefully placed and maintained especially for their use. Most of them are powered by special power cables which may be strung overhead or might be underground, or even in part or whole the tracks themselves (rare due to safety issues). Some electrical trollies may still use a main power overhead cable and well grounded rails for partial return path. (I think a lot of them are still that way?) "Cable cars" use a miles long continuous steel cable underground that is continuously moving in a single direction (very long numerous loops!) which the cable car grabs onto to be pulled along with the underground cable. The basic design dates back to the 19th century in cities built upon mountains (small to sometimes very large mountains?). The wonderful idea behind the design is that it is actually fairly energy efficient! Although the cable has to pull each and every cable car up every covered hill, at the same time, another car is going down that or another hill on the same miles long line. So while some cars are fighting gravity, other cars are being pulled by gravity to offset the power demands! Once the system is powered up and going at its designed speed, the amount of energy to keep it moving is not as much as one might expect. The design was originally proposed in the 19th century because trollies were originally pulled by horses. Cities like San Francisco on major hills had a lot of problems with horses collapsing and often dying pulling the trollies uphill, or brakes failing going downhill! Accidents were very common, causing a lot of expensive damages and even deaths of passengers or pedestrians. As long as the cables were well maintained, once the cable car was locked onto the cable and running along, accidents or brake failures were rare. San Francisco is credited with being first, however at one time a couple dozen cities around the USA and even the world also ran cable car lines similar to Sn Francisco's.

Says LaSalle. Minor point.

"Early" history of the automobile is filled with bad ideas! And this is clearly one of them. Talk about impractical? The only place that car can go is where the poles and wires are preinstalled for the car's use. A mile of poles and wires would cost nearly as much as the car itself, and the wire strands would have to be pulled a lot tighter and straighter than that if there was to be any hope of the electrical contacts carriage to follow the car pulled simply by another electric wire. I think I will go back to my giant clock spring motorcar. At least that can go anywhere it wants to, and I can just wind it up again wherever it stops. Of course the half a block driving distance is still a bit annoying. Maybe compressed air?

Okay, I admit it. I am a rotten person, and a bad son. I loved my dad and had a great deal of respect for him in many ways. Behind his back, among a few of my friends, I often called my dad a "gonna-do". He always had so many great ideas, and plans for so many things. But he always wanted to do everything in some "perfect" way. In reality, he almost always put things off until he never did them. So many things, he couldn't do it perfectly now, so he never did it ever, but for years and years he was always "gonna do" it. He ended up making such a mess of everything that when he died, I, my mother and my brother had about thirty days to dispose of about three quarters of his massive collection of cars, radios, clocks, none of which were done, along with mess of the family business he left behind. There were always hundreds of things he was "gonna do" that never got done. As long as I can remember, he wanted to restore a few antique automobiles. He fixed up a couple older pickups which he used for work. But an antique automobile restoration? Never one. Including my two unfinished model Ts now? I think I have restored about a dozen. None of them were perfect. But I enjoyed every one of them! And most of them were nice enough that I could take them almost anywhere and park next to almost anything and not be ashamed of how my car looked. I know my limitations, and a show car is not in the cards for me.

Nice fabrication work! I have often said that a little creativity can go a long way. I have repaired or replaced a number of steel castings over the years by cutting, bending, and shaping steel pieces then welding or brazing them together. A little "pretty-up" work and usually one can make the new piece look like an actual casting.

Nice tribute.

Looking GREAT!

1924 model T Ford coupe, very similar to the one I used to have. I think the sedan is a Cadillac, about a 1924 or '25, a longtime friend has a 1925.

Now, that one is a nice looking car! Sounds like with some loss and setbacks, you came out okay. And by the way? I love sedans!

Aw, what the hey? I feel like sticking my neck out. First glance, early Pontiac or late Oakland. About 1930.

Another thought. Personally, I would not want the original thread to become lost descending down below as people are weaned off posting on it and using more "discussion" photo posting threads. If it were permanently pinned to the top, some people might feel more at ease in individual photo threads? Walt, I cannot thank you enough for starting that incredible thread! I know it has helped me just looking forward to the almost daily new photos posted!

A great photo! Wonderful juxtaposition of the early automobile ushering in the age of heavier than air craft! We may need Varun C to identify that car?

It actually would not be all that difficult to do. However, at this point, it would be a massive undertaking. One really big potential problem may exist? A lot of the photos were originally posted as hosted links which may (probably do) have expiration times connected to them. I know about two years ago, I went back through several earlier pages of postings, and saw a number of photos that had apparently expired. I wish I could do it, however my family situation currently doesn't allow me much time. The reason my cars aren't getting done. The only people that I currently know that are technically capable? Aren't personally stable enough for me to recommend them.

Some really wonderful early dirt track racing photos! Sure brings back memories for me. Fiftyish years ago, I was very fortunate to participate in some early racing reenactments on a half mile plus dirt track running actual racing speeds with model T Ford racing cars!

I love happy endings! I hope this does become one.

Ouch! Did anyone ever get that car back onto the road? Nice looker (twenty footer you say?).

I was wondering about that myself. Several high end Classic engines found their way into industrial uses for years after the limited production cars were done. Auburn's V12 ended up in fire engines and speed boats. The Bugatti Royale engine was used in rail yard switch engines. I have heard a few other stories over the years. High end automotive engineers went to great lengths to create really powerful and effective engines for their creations. It stands to reason that some of them found their way into other uses once the forms were made, and design specs completed. Some years back. I met a fellow that had a V12 Auburn (club sedan if I recall correctly?). It had a fire engine engine in it, and he knew about it when he bought the car. But he wasn't a big bucks collector, and the price was fair. He pointed out the detail differences to me (most of which I have long since forgotten?). People that knew. of course knew. And he wasn't trying to hide the facts behind it. The car was no less impressive looking, and he certainly enjoyed driving and showing the car wherever it was welcomed. I read about a car like the Daimler above, and wonder how or why the engine was replaced by a Buick straight eight in the first place. Then I wonder where someone found a suitable "proper" replacement? But I have also heard (and even seen) many stories where someone has/had some incredible historic engine out of some known historic car. Sometimes, the stars just align just right and such things come together.

If a person were to have my Paige done from its current state? Would probably cost 25K for a mediocre job. Doing all the work myself I figure about $4000 left out of my pocket. The biggest costs left are the glass and the brakes. I knew what was coming, and had an opportunity to have the nickel plating all done over thirty years ago (was over $2000 then!). The biggest amount of work left is the full interior. If I can get to it, it won't be my first, though it might be my last full interior. I already have almost all the materials for it! Very nice mohair, very close to what they used originally.

Okay, after reading comments, I had to click on the link and take a look (in spite of the fact there is no way I could afford to even think about such a car?). Wow, what an incredible car that could become! It is in far worse condition than my Paige was when my dad bought it almost 60 years ago! And I did spend some significant time on the Paige after it became mine. It was almost half done thirty years ago. But family keeps getting in the way, no time and not enough money to continue working on it. When I look at cars like that Packard, I still see potential. I remember when I was restoring one car after another and think "I could do that!" But then reality sets in. My days for that kind of restoration are past. To do that Packard to a good level (not Pebble Beach) would take at least ten times as much money and ten times as much time as it would take to finish the Paige if I had the time and a few dollars. Maybe even twenty times as much. I might still be able to finish the Paige some day.

The "car" appears to be an early "cyclecar" and probably has a motorcycle engine. Likely a V-twin, but could be a single. In the USA, there was a short cyclecar craze from about 1910 to about 1913. In America, the craze died down quickly as Henry's model T went down in price and became much more affordable. In Europe, the craze began earlier, and continued into the early 1930s. One of the main reasons for European's interest in cyclecars was the vehicle tax structure in most European countries was based upon horsepower, and tended to be punitive with even moderate horsepower cars being taxed heavily. Average working families wanting a car needed something small and low horsepower that could carry a couple adults or one adult and a couple children when needed. Light and cheap, with low taxation, cyclecars were the perfect simple solution to personal transportation in Europe! And with their punitive horsepower taxation, they remained popular there into the 1930s. Naturally, of course, anything one could drive, should be raced! And throughout the 1920s, cyclecar racing in England and Europe was a serious sport! It was Hitler's rise to power that put an end to the cyclecar's popularity. Then, when the rebuilding of Europe took place after the war, the flimsy cyclecar was sort of overlooked. It was replaced by a bunch of mini cars with very small but efficient engines built by several European companies. But that is a story for another day. I sure would like to know more about the car in the OP photo. I don't recognize it, although I do think I have seen it before. That front axle should be it identifiable to someone that really knows cyclecars. I am not even sure if it is American or European.

The car looks like it was a 1933 to 1935 Chevrolet, actual year dependent on whether it is a Master or Standard series. The damage is interesting. It looks as though it may have made an abrupt stop hitting something low, and flipped end over then landing on the roof? Or it went over a low cliff and flipped forward hitting the front into the ground and rolling over again. Either way, not good for anyone inside.

I am not certain. They could be among the last of the Willys Whippet automobiles? I am familiar with the earlier ones, but not the 1930 or later so much. But they both look close to the late Whippet automobiles. How could ANYONE mistake a Whippet for a Stutz of any year is beyond me! Maybe all they looked at was the bumpers? Maybe their peanut size brain said "I think I saw that bumper on a Stutz one time?" Those bumpers are clearly not original to the cars. I zoomed in as close as the definition would allow, couldn't read the radiator badge. But it has the shape, colors, and style of the 1929 to 1931ish Whippets. And I have seen a few of the late Whippets over the years. The firewall looks right. Additional thought. The better sedan MIGHT be worth $5000 as a non-running car. The falling-apart sedan maybe $2000 as a parts car (as if anyone wants a parts car for one these?). I have known a few people over the years that had Whippets, even a few of the later ones. They like the cars! I knew an Overland collector years ago that had three or four whippets. One of his favorite tour cars was a 1929 Whippet roadster! He loved that car as much as any of the several restored Overlands that he had!

Maybe for a C-cab TT (first offered in 1924)? Their windshield is very similar to the 1924/'25 roadsters and touring cars, but everything is slightly different.

I love that interior! It reminds me of the original interior in a friend's 1925 Stearns Knight many years ago! Lots of the big Cadillac touring cars around. And I have seen several opera coupes, a few two passenger coupes of the late 1910s and early 1920s. However, regular sedans do not seem to become common until about 1924 and later. Really neat car! It makes me wish I could afford it somehow, in spite of the fact at this stage of my life I really do not want to fool with a V8.

I call it "natural finish" because that is what most people call it. The reason I "quote" "natural finish" is because that is what most people call it, but that is NOT what it is? Make sense? What most people call "natural finish" is in fact a combination of oils, stains, and synthetic coatings that may be somewhere near clear or in fact have some amount of coloring (often yellowing or a hint of brown or red?). Nothing really "natural" about that! The idea is of course to highlight and show off the grain of the wood, which is a natural part of its character. (Ever notice how when the wood is stained and coated with a clear finish, in a lot of woods the lighter part of the grain becomes much darker, and the darker part of the grain by comparison becomes lighter?) While I have a great appreciation for fine woodwork and furniture, the clearcoats available a hundred years ago did not hold up well under rough use or bad weather. Therefore, they were not practical as a commercial body finish. Hence why most (not all!) commercial vehicles were painted inside and out.