Guest RivieraWannabe Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Hi guys, I hope to be a Riviera owner soon enough! I have some questions that might ease my path. I am actively in the market for a 1st Gen Riviera, somewhere between project and running and driving. As I'm sure is common, the 65 is the one that really does it for me, specifically the headlights. Realistically there are probably double the number of first gen rivs out there without the schnazzy headlights than with them, so if I could find an older one and move the needed components over that might be the way to go. So I'm somewhat curious what parts of the front clip need to be swapped to transplant the facia of the '65 onto a '63 or '64. Getting the new headlights to function I'm pretty unconcerned about, but just looking at the front of a '65 vs '63 or '64 you can tell there are differences and I assume some are either directly or indirectly due to needing somewhere to put the headlight covers. The real impetus is there is a '64 Riviera out there for a solid price and it comes with '65 Fenders, I assume those aren't a bolt on to the 64 and boom everything fits and I can start worrying about making them move? I appreciate the insight you guys can provide. I'm a pretty avid googler and the ROA forum on AACA was always the place people were directed too when looking at... pretty much everything first gen related. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I had looked into doing that with my 64. The previous owner had also, but wasn't able to find the front fenders while they owned it. It's my understanding that you'll need the whole fenders, with the headlight parts and wiring intact. Also misc parts, such as the motor, wiring, and brackets. I decided to put the headlights behind the turn signal grilles for simplicity sake. I've seen one in person like that, and there's several pics of the conversion on the internet. You don't get the cool flip up covers, but they look cool in their own right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmiddy Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I'm in contact with Ken Becker who converted his son's 1. Gen Riv +/- the way you want to have yours... (as I understand right) Ken has amazing skills and is a very nice guy! I'm sure he'd like to give you lots of good tips and valuable information for this kind of transformation. You can find him on Facebook. (Send him a PM let him know that "Schmiddy for Switzerland" gave you the contact infos I'm sure you will get back cool advices and answers to your questions). Here is the car: (...The wheels are not my gusto but this Rivi has many very cool features - in my opinion) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epriv Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Schmiddy, I seen this car this past Friday at our local car show here in Illinois. It is really something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 You'll need the inner fenders as well. It takes a complete front clip to do it correctly. From the bumpers are different, etc. You'll want a complete 65 donor car and strip it down to the frame. Move EVERYTHING to the stripped down 64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 If you're just trying to hide the headlights, this might be an easier way to go. http://www.ebay.com/itm/63-64-BUICK-RIVIERA-CUSTOM-BILLET-GRILLE-1963-1964-21-BARS-RAILS-IN-STOCK-NEW-/272866628889?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIVNIK Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Hey Wanna, In my opinion you may suffer from a serious malady that affects many of us, GFPS (glutton for punishment syndrome) You could save yourself a ton of money & headache by focusing on finding a '65. There are plenty out there. Add the potential money you might save (by NOT doing this conversion) to your car budget & you should be able to afford a nice one. Unless you find a cream puff or a fully restored one, you are still going to have plenty to do. Just sayin' Drew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 If you like the look of the 65 model, then the obvious thing to do is purchase a 65 model. It's not like they are not out there for sale. If you will be patient, you will find the right car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) In 1965 hidden headlights were a pretty big deal. Today you see them all over the place, even junky 20 year old Hondas have them. Today, four round exposed headlights are a rarity. I thought I would add a picture of the original basis of design. "Put a Ferrari grille in that and mount a pair of LaSalle grilles on the leading edge of the fenders. Of course four headlights. It's 'Murican!" Edited October 4, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jframe Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Took me 40 years to find mine. I have wanted one since I was a small kid. I know they are out there, but you have to find the RIGHT one out there at the RIGHT time. Kind of like a woman, lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 3 hours ago, RivNut said: If you're just trying to hide the headlights, this might be an easier way to go. http://www.ebay.com/itm/63-64-BUICK-RIVIERA-CUSTOM-BILLET-GRILLE-1963-1964-21-BARS-RAILS-IN-STOCK-NEW-/272866628889?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275 This is the grille I have in my 63. Below is a link to the headlights I used to complete this swap. Doesn't make it a 65. I didn't want a 65. I wanted a 63-64 with headlights behind the fender grilles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I like the looks of the 65 but not the interiors. I never really found a 65 back when I was looking for one. When I came across a one one owner 63 I jumped on it. I sort of wish I still had it. The idea of changing to a 65 grill and lights did come to mind but not seriously enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 16 hours ago, RivieraWannabe said: I am actively in the market for a 1st Gen Riviera, somewhere between project and running and driving. I have a ’65 that I am contemplating selling that meets your requirement. This car is a “project” for sure, it is "running", but not really “driving” because the brakes need attention, and there is plenty more that needs work too. I am not giving it away as much as I am into it for but it is available for the right price. The main "good" point of the car is it is one of the 454 non- GS '65 Rivs built with the LX 425 2 4bbl engine, so it is a fairly rare one. If you are able to do your own sheet metal repairs it might be just what you are looking for? PM me if you would like more info … 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jframe Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Rivman said: I have a ’65 that I am contemplating selling that meets your requirement. This car is a “project” for sure, it is "running", but not really “driving” because the brakes need attention, and there is plenty more that needs work too. I am not giving it away as much as I am into it for but it is available for the right price. The main "good" point of the car is it is one of the 454 non- GS '65 Rivs built with the LX 425 2 4bbl engine, so it is a fairly rare one. If you are able to do your own sheet metal repairs it might be just what you are looking for? PM me if you would like more info … I think this car is AWESOME! Is it Shell Beige? If so, it has to be the ultimate sleeper with those optional! wire wheel covers. Love to see more photos, sorry for the thread drift. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I've always liked the hidden headlights of the 65, but honestly I don't like what they did to the rear of the car. On the 63-64, the front and rear bumpers are at an even height, on the 65 it was raised up, and the lights put under it. Kinda killed the symmetrical look of the car. That and they killed the charm the dash had by going to black gauges and background. To me, a hybrid 64-65 makes the most sense design-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 14 hours ago, steelman said: This is the grille I have in my 63. Below is a link to the headlights I used to complete this swap. Doesn't make it a 65. I didn't want a 65. I wanted a 63-64 with headlights behind the fender grilles. I had saved everything from that post, that was some great info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) It might be easier to buy a 65 and put on a 64 rear bumper and taillights. Edited October 5, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Before going that direction, you'll need to find a donor car for the rear quarters. The quarters are molded differently where the bumper wraps around the rear fender. Been there, looked, and walked away with a fresh attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RivieraWannabe Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 You guys are animals haha. The more I ponder it the more you guys are probably just right an actual 65 to start with is the way to go. Part of my desire for a project and not necessarily a really good Riviera is that long term I want to make it a really modernized daily driver, and I'd rather not ruin a mint interior period correct interior or separate a numbers matching 425 from its mill. All the Riviera pictures are reinforcing my decision haha. Really they're making my Wallet a little nervous XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) Forget the headlights and start with a 64. It's a better looking car. IMHO, most of what you need for a modernized DD is to R&R the suspension and steering components. Specifically, you might consider: - Replace all the rubber pieces (bushings, etc.). - R&R the front end (tie rods ends, ball joints, etc.). - Upgrade the shocks and springs to something stiffer than stock. - Install a quick ratio (~15:1) steering box. - Install a heavier sway bar. - Install a dual master cylinder. At this point in the car's life, most of that falls under the heading of standard maintenance -- so making a decision as to what you're putting on isn't significantly more work than you'd be doing anyway. I don't see any need to go with disc brakes. I see nothing wrong with doing that (particularly if everything's apart anyway), but I think that these stock brakes are fine. Edited October 5, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I can agree with replacing all of the bushings but you might want to consider polyurethane instead of rubber. I'll go along with a quicker ratio steering gear box. A dual master cylinder swap is a safety upgrade. Disk brakes aren't going to stop you any quicker or shorter but they will prevent brake fade if you're towing or going down steep grades alot. If you really want to modernize the car, consider these options. Set as much positive caster in the front end as you can get. Try for 2 or 3 degrees overdrive transmission with a lockup torque converter with a 3.23 or 3.42 rear gear roller camshaft roller rockers electronic ignition fuel injection ergonomic seats If the budget allows, go for an independent suspension rear end. the best tires you can afford modern cruise control Navigation and Bluetooth Steering wheel controls for radio and cruise control If you insist on disk brakes, do the rears as well. Anyone have anything more to add to the list or agree/disagree with my suggestions? ? My daughter and I met for lunch today and she showed up in a new Volvo wagon. Pretty spiffy, but I was mostly impressed with the heads up display of the speedometer, speed limit, and what was playing on the radio. I'm now wondering if the navigation system is on the dash screen if it would show up on the heads up display. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 If you've got to rebuild the engine, swap the tranny, put in a new rear end, replace the brakes., upgrade the interior, etc. to bring it up to snuff, I'd tell you to save your time and energy and go buy a new Honda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 21 hours ago, jframe said: I think this car is AWESOME! Is it Shell Beige? If so, it has to be the ultimate sleeper with those optional! wire wheel covers. Love to see more photos, sorry for the thread drift. Thanks, Yes, it is Shell Beige with the Custom Saddle interior. So as not to hijack the thread I'll add some pictures to the "Post some pics of your Riviera!" thread soon. Possibly add a "For Sale" ad soon too, who knows? Thanks again, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 6 hours ago, RivieraWannabe said: Part of my desire for a project and not necessarily a really good Riviera is that long term I want to make it a really modernized daily driver, That is a lot of work to really do it right. I took my Wife out and had her test fit the seat in this Caddy since her back is getting pretty bad. Conceptually and physically it is a really accurate update of the first generation Riviera. I have been looking for a driver to use until I am 80 and the CTS coupe sure reminds me of the razor edge Riviera styling in a 21st century package. A stock Riviera and a stock CTS might be more of a pleasure than you imagine. That CTS is a '14 with 13,000 miles @ $27,000. I have never been disappointed by cars I paid something extra for and the longer you keep them the better the deal. Think about it. The Riviera won't be so special if you homogenize it into a daily driver.... re, a... I mean modernize it. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I like the CTS coupe, but the ATS coupe is a pretty sharp one too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I'm not a fan of polyurethane bushings. They do make a car much for firm handling compared to old worn out rubber bushings, but they always squeak. Had them on a 79 Chevy, and a 67 Mustang. They're quiet for a few months, and then slowly start to squeak increasingly more. I'm going rubber next time I do a suspension rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 14 hours ago, RivieraWannabe said: You guys are animals haha. The more I ponder it the more you guys are probably just right an actual 65 to start with is the way to go. Part of my desire for a project and not necessarily a really good Riviera is that long term I want to make it a really modernized daily driver, and I'd rather not ruin a mint interior period correct interior or separate a numbers matching 425 from its mill. All the Riviera pictures are reinforcing my decision haha. Really they're making my Wallet a little nervous XD You should draw a hard line on what you want to modify. I went down this path with my mustang. About 10K later, I have a old ford that handles almost as good as my GF's Rav4, and is harsh riding enough to knock the fillings out of your teeth. It handles 10 times better than originally, but it came with a steep price. I'm looking to buy an early C4 corvette, and send the ford down the road. In my opinion, the best bet is to let a old car be a old car. I'm increasing the reliability of my 64, fixing some age issues, and making some cosmetic changes. But I'm going to let the old buick be a old buick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, jsgun said: In my opinion, the best bet is to let a old car be a old car. I'm increasing the reliability of my 64, fixing some age issues, and making some cosmetic changes. But I'm going to let the old buick be a old buick. Concur. If I'd a wanted a new car, I'd a bought a new car. Having said that, I'd guess that few folks know how these cars handled when knew; their experience is mostly with 50-year-old cars with loose steering, spongy springs, torn bushings, and the like. They will never be the equivalent of a modern sports sedan, but most folks would be surprised at the improvement they see just by replacing the worn out stock parts. Add a couple of minor tweaks (some of which were available as factory options), and you'll be OK. You don't have to color that far out of the lines to have a respectable, reliable car. Edited October 6, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Poly has it's place in certain areas, NOT articulating, moving, motion suspension parts. On my '64 Riv. I use poly on the upper front shock mounts, sway bar bushings, (1 5/16ths) & links. Rear poly panhard bushings. NO bushings on the rear sway bar. Front sway bar has to be taken apart & lubed yearly for squeaking. Mix Kendall Super Blue grease mixed with copper anti-seize. Rest of suspension is still original & not showing ANY signs of deterioration as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Energy suspension sells greasable sway bar bushings. There a grease zert in the mounting bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Urethane bushings that are sold for car suspensions are just like drugs......just say no. They make noise, fail completely in a short period of time, and make a smooth riding car feel like an 18 wheeler. They are a joke, end of story. There is a reason why GM does not use them.... the engineers know better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Can't mix up my concoction to grease them & it's makes a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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