Stripping top paint layer to get to original color.

[Chacheska]

Hi all. My 29,700 original mile 1936 Pierce Arrow V12 five passenger sedan has a coating of tarp blue paint brushed over the original army green. Probably done in the 50's. I'm an original car lover. The interior is a nice original except for the headliner which has a lot of mouse urine and holes but it's still original. There are 2" to 3" sections of peeled paint on the rad area near the hood ornament that shows the original green. The cowl had a couple of peeled areas so I decided to see if I could get to the green. I took a plastic snow scraper and carefully scraped off an area of 6" down to the original green. Then I tried a coarse, wet sanding sponge that quickly cut through the blue. I used a finer sanding sponge after that and was able to get about a 2 foot section down to the green although I burned through a few small spots to the original brown primer. I used Meguires #2 fine cut cleaner to lessen the scratch marks on the green. It's a little dull but it's original and can most likely be buffed out. Am I insane to even think about trying to do the whole car? The blue paint is pretty crappy anyway. What would any of you suggest to try to strip the top layer of blue paint off to get to the original green layer? One suggestion was to block sand the whole car. Another was to use a light duty stripper. Yet another was to use oven cleaner! The friend who told me that swears it will work on the top layer only. I don't believe him. I don't think any liquid stripper would work on the top layer without affecting the original, soft nitro. If sanding is suggested I assume wet sanding is the preferred method. I would love to see this car in it's original color. It spent most of it's life in Montana (dry state) and is a very solid, rust free car. Thanks in advance. I know I'll get some interesting suggestions!

[nearchoclatetown]

I stripped a car last summer for the same reasons you suggest. I was able to use acetone to remove an ugly brush job. Lots of time and the rubber gloves don't last too long, acetone is potent stuff. It didn't hurt the original finish on mine.You would want to try it in aa small area that can't be seen first to test it. Being carefull you could probably use a buffer and rubbing compound, too.

[Jay Wolf]

I removed brush painted letters off of a trailer with Easy-Off oven cleaner and it didn't hurt the original finish. Use gloves, I didn't and it turned my fingernails brown.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Chacheska,You asked in your post if you were insane.I would think by the time you were done using ANY of these methods to remove the finish on the ENTIRE car,the answer to your question would be YES,YES and YES.IMHO.diz

[Chacheska]

O.K., Diz, since I'm already insane for thinking of doing it what's YOUR suggestion? I don't need to lose any more brain cells so the acetone is out. Maybe the oven cleaner would work but that one scares me. Maybe the best way is to use the wet sanding sponge to get most of it off and them a rubbing compound to finish it. I notice Diz is in Buffalo, just 20 les down the road from me. C'mon over and grab some sand paper!

[Chacheska]

Oops! That should have read 20 MILES down the road.

[Jay Wolf]

I wouldn't sand it the thicker the paint the easier the oven cleaner takes it off. thin stuff is a lot harder. We used yellow bondo spreaders as scrapers.

After we rubbed out the surface you couldn't tell it has been painted.

[Restorer32]

Just remember, there is probably a reason it was repainted.

[Aanderson44]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi all. My 29,700 original mile 1936 Pierce Arrow V12 five passenger sedan has a coating of tarp blue paint brushed over the original army green. Probably done in the 50's. I'm an original car lover. The interior is a nice original except for the headliner which has a lot of mouse urine and holes but it's still original. There are 2" to 3" sections of peeled paint on the rad area near the hood ornament that shows the original green. The cowl had a couple of peeled areas so I decided to see if I could get to the green. I took a plastic snow scraper and carefully scraped off an area of 6" down to the original green. Then I tried a coarse, wet sanding sponge that quickly cut through the blue. I used a finer sanding sponge after that and was able to get about a 2 foot section down to the green although I burned through a few small spots to the original brown primer. I used Meguires #2 fine cut cleaner to lessen the scratch marks on the green. It's a little dull but it's original and can most likely be buffed out. Am I insane to even think about trying to do the whole car? The blue paint is pretty crappy anyway. What would any of you suggest to try to strip the top layer of blue paint off to get to the original green layer? One suggestion was to block sand the whole car. Another was to use a light duty stripper. Yet another was to use oven cleaner! The friend who told me that swears it will work on the top layer only. I don't believe him. I don't think any liquid stripper would work on the top layer without affecting the original, soft nitro. If sanding is suggested I assume wet sanding is the preferred method. I would love to see this car in it's original color. It spent most of it's life in Montana (dry state) and is a very solid, rust free car. Thanks in advance. I know I'll get some interesting suggestions! </div></div>

I'm going to "think outside the box" here for a bit! You say that areas of the paint are already peeling away? If so, I have a thought here:

Model car builders know all too well that we can have problems with paint adhesion on plastic model kits. Ordinary masking tape can sometimes remove danged near the entire first color of a 2-tone paintjob. So, why not try, say one of the cheap brands of say, duct tape? Put it down on the brush painted enamel, prefereably next to an area where it's started to peel away, and then lift, straight up? It seems to me that the duct tape, with its strong adhesive might just lift off considerable areas of the brush-painted enamel you want gone, without any damage to the original lacquer below it. Might actually make this a quicker project. Of course, do this ONLY on the blue enamel, avoid sticking the tape to the original lacquer.

Art

[Chacheska]

Thanks for the replies, guys. O.K., I can try a little fume free oven cleaner on a spot on the cowl under the hood and see what happens. I HAVE thought about why the car was painted and am a little worried about what's under that tarp blue paint but the current paint job is so bad that it won't really matter much. Besides, if I can get to the original layer it will, at that point, be an almost entirely original car except for the wheels. I'd rather have some paint problems on an original paint job than an ugly blue, un-original color. If the original green is that bad I can always have it painted the original color. Either way it will look better than what I now have. I'll give the duct tape a try but that sounds too good to be true. I doubt any paint's adhesive quality would be so poor that a sticky tape would pull it off but, hey, I'll give it a shot! It may take a few days but I'll post the results after I try them. It's pretty darn cold here and I don't have a heated garage but it's going to heat up to 60º in a few days. Thanks again. If anyone else has any other suggestions feel free to chime in.

[1937hd45]

When I worked in the restoration shop years ago I'd use a straight razor and a heat gun to strip paint. Took a Rolls down to primer in no time. Just be careful not to dig in with the corner of the blade. Have a full box of blades, when one gets dull swap it for a sharp one, you'll be supprised how fast the crappy paint comes off. Test things to see if you need the heat gun or not.

[Chacheska]

The razor method is a little like what I accomplished with the ice scrapper and no heat. How did you do all the curved contours, though? There are so many curves on a car that it seems like it would be easy to cut right through both layers. Kinda like sanding. When you hit an edge it cuts through to primer pretty fast. Would a heat gun and the ice scraper be less apt to cut through as fast since the scrapper is much duller or do you need something sharp to cut it? Maybe heat and the duct tape method would work. I have a few things to try. Thanks!

[Guest Indiana_Truck]

I like the tape idea since the old paint job may not have been scuffed before the new paint was put on. Because of this the top layer will not have anything to hold on to. I would put the tape on and press it down real good and then pull it off. If you don't get it all you can try again but don't press it down on the original finish but it should be stronger than the brush on paint anyway. I have had good luck on small areas with paint thinner on a rag. I don't get much thinner on the rag and try to only get the paint I want to remove. This might work on the small spots where you don't get it all or at least it might take away most of the paint down to a thin film that you can rub off with compoud. I once removed a painted on label from an old beer can from the 40's that had been painted over an older label and ended up with a can worth 10 times more than it was before I started.

I wish you were close to me as this sounds like fun and I would love to help!

Bob

[DizzyDale]

I have successfully removed factory paint in the quarter car wash.My intentions were to ONLY remove the dirt.YES it was in the early 90s when EVERYONE had delamination problems,i guess what i am trying to say IS how about a pressure washer.diz

[Chacheska]

Well, I tried the duct tape on a few areas a few times. Nada. Not even a tiny amount came off. I thought that sounded too good to be true. The original green underlying paint that I uncovered on the cowl using a plastic scraper as well as a few other green areas on the car where the blue has peeled off does not appear to have been scuffed at all. Careful amounts of paint thinner sounds plausible. Diz, your idea sounds interesting. I, too, have unwittingly blown off parts of the factory decals on my '92 Dodge van by using a car wash pressure washer. That's an interesting idea. I just bought one 4 months ago but, as you know, it's pretty cold here in western N.Y. now so that test will have to wait until spring. I could try to blast the top of the rad where a couple of 2" areas of blue paint have already peeled off to reveal the green. I'm wondering what it would do to the relatively soft nitrocelulose paint, though. I'd like to thank everyone for taking the time to print suggestions for me. I'm sure a combination of some of them will work.

[Guest RestoModmyCar]

Its been over a decade - has there been any progress in taking off one layer of lacquer, where in this case the original paint is also lacquer?

[James, London, UK]

I have an AC which has been over painted twice. I would love to take the top two layers off as I believe this would make it the only AC Ace with significant competing history still in its original paint. However as one poster has pointed out there was a reason it was painted,  and on our car it is because a large part of the alluminium nose was replaced after the car crashed whilst racing in the 1961 Goodwood Tourist Trophy  (won by Stirling Moss). So I think all 'would be' paint restores will face the problem that once the old paint is removed the original layer will need to be stabilised at least and I had wondered whether a very thin single coat of matching colour might be a solution or if your original paint is very good then a top lacquer coat ( what does this community think?). On our car where the original paint is missing I think the solution would be take it back to bare metal and primer then top coat, feathering each coat into the original layers. This is very diffecult to do well. There's a reason that commercial restorers take everything back to bare metal because two people can get a top class finish in about 4 days work with all the right facilities. It's actually fairy straight forward and doesn't require a huge amount of judgement or decision making. (I am going to be chastised by paint shops now!). In terms of which process is best I would assemble everything that has been mentioned by posters and try each technique on a 6 inch square,  then compare. I have already done this when restoring my current over sprayed top coat. I trialled different grades of wet and dry and polish. In the end I used 2500 grade wet n dry, with T-Cut and a final polish to stabilise and hopefully slow down the re-oxidation. I was amazed by how much colour can be restored by sanding off the top few microns of paint. The whole car goes matt and and you are surrounded by paint coloured water on the ground. But once cut back and polished the colour is so vibrant (see pic). But even that took perhaps 20 hours, stripping off a paint layer completely is going to take weeks. Good luck fellow restorers!

[Jonny S]

This is a good thread. I imagine a lot of us are trying to figure out a magic way to get back to that original color. I'm about to try some of these things on my 71 Jeep Wagoneer and see if I can't get back to that champagne gold from yesteryear. Thanks for the tips.

[Robbie M]

Chacheska, I would love to hear your solution and results if completed. I am in a similar situation with flaking top coat paint on top of original color.

 

[mikewest]

On 11/19/2005 at 12:29 AM, Chacheska said:

Hi all. My 29,700 original mile 1936 Pierce Arrow V12 five passenger sedan has a coating of tarp blue paint brushed over the original army green. Probably done in the 50's. I'm an original car lover. The interior is a nice original except for the headliner which has a lot of mouse urine and holes but it's still original. There are 2" to 3" sections of peeled paint on the rad area near the hood ornament that shows the original green. The cowl had a couple of peeled areas so I decided to see if I could get to the green. I took a plastic snow scraper and carefully scraped off an area of 6" down to the original green. Then I tried a coarse, wet sanding sponge that quickly cut through the blue. I used a finer sanding sponge after that and was able to get about a 2 foot section down to the green although I burned through a few small spots to the original brown primer. I used Meguires #2 fine cut cleaner to lessen the scratch marks on the green. It's a little dull but it's original and can most likely be buffed out. Am I insane to even think about trying to do the whole car? The blue paint is pretty crappy anyway. What would any of you suggest to try to strip the top layer of blue paint off to get to the original green layer? One suggestion was to block sand the whole car. Another was to use a light duty stripper. Yet another was to use oven cleaner! The friend who told me that swears it will work on the top layer only. I don't believe him. I don't think any liquid stripper would work on the top layer without affecting the original, soft nitro. If sanding is suggested I assume wet sanding is the preferred method. I would love to see this car in it's original color. It spent most of it's life in Montana (dry state) and is a very solid, rust free car. Thanks in advance. I know I'll get some interesting suggestions!

Use liquid stripper. Try oven cleaner ,it works on a lot of old paint. Dad ran a   garage and on two occasions I saw him use easy off oven cleaner . One was a 40 Ford convertible  that had flames painted on the sides and another time a truck came in from a plumbing store it had plenty of lettering on it He sprayed  the easy off on and as soon as it wrinkled up he cleaned it . The secret is not wait too long. You have nothing  to loose??

[jwilli43]

I struggled for years with liquid strippers. The problem is they run off the surface or evaporate, it's never on the paint long enough to get the work done. A much easier way is to use a gell. You paint the gell on with a brush and leave it. It doesn't run off or evaporate. The longer you leave it on, the deeper it goes. You can take it off with a plastic putty knife, rag, or steel wool, all depends on how deep you want to go. My wife has been refinishing furniture for years, always using a product called CitriStrip Gel. It removes anything, latex or oil-based paint, varnish, or shellac. It's sold at any home improvement or hardware store for about $15 a bottle. It doesn't smell, has no harmful fumes, creates no heat, and can be used indoors. I have to credit her with the idea, I never thought to try it on car paint. It's a huge time saver.

[Frank DuVal]

On 2/28/2023 at 9:04 PM, jwilli43 said:

struggled for years with liquid strippers. The problem is they run off the surface or evaporate,

Cover the stripper with plastic sheeting. Gives the stripper time to work without evaporating.

[Rusty_OToole]

A razor blade scraper and plenty of single edge razor blades. Yes it can be tedious and requires a delicate touch but you can remove the top layer of paint without scratching the original paint and without harsh chemicals so less mess too. 1937's idea of using a heat gun to soften the paint is a good one, if it is enamel and it probably is.

 

Suggest you start with a rear fender or inconspicuous place until you get the knack. Break the job up and stop if you get tired or frustrated. Work on it for a couple of hours each day and you will have the whole car done in a week or 2.

 

If you run into a spot where the paint won't come off, that is probably an old repair where the original paint was ground off and is no longer there. Just skip those areas and come back to them later. When you are done you will see where the repaired or damaged areas are, and will have to figure out if they can be blown in or touched up. Those areas may need to be sanded down and repainted to match the original paint.

[1937hd45]

It has been many years since I was removing paint with a razor blade. I remember that the blade would take a set and only worked one way from new, you couldn't flip it and have it work well. I did the gas tank on a 1912 AC delivery 3 wheeler, got it down to the original lettering and pin stripe, photos are long lost but it looked great.