Where are we headed?

[DizzyDale]

The Lake Erie Regional Group is putting on the Grand National Meet in Buffalo 2004.I just got home from a meeting with the group putting this meet together.The subject of advertising came up,of course we advertise in the AACA magazine to let all the members know about the meet,but there is almost NO local advertising because as it was explained to me "This is a meet for the members only,we really do not want anybody pushing a baby buggy into any of our cars"and so on.How the --LL is the club going to grow or even stay the same with this attitude.SEEMS to me you are having a gathering of the finest the AACA has to offer i would think you would WANT the whole world there.When we took our 37 Ford to Hershey ,the PEOPLE were the best,ESPECIALLY the spectators.SURE we came home with the hardware but the CONVERSATIONS,SMILES,MEMORIES are PRICELESS.diz

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How the --LL is the club going to grow or even stay the same with this attitude. </div></div>

Amen.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Hello... How are you going to get people interested in your cars ?

Who is going to take over your car when you get too old to drive it ?

Seems pretty shortsighted to me. Conversations go on all the time about how we get younger people into our car clubs and this isn't even advertised locally ?

Attitudes like this is what are causing some chapters to shrink.

[Guest]

OK, as a non-member, I'm confused.

Someone please tell me what if any type of meets/shows/events that the AACA has that the public (or non-members) are welcome at.

I can understand that business meetings and probably of other member oriented events are not really "open" to the public.

But what events are open to the car loving public?

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

AACA car shows open to public and FREE:.

Pinkerton Park in Franklin Tn. Annual for about the last 15 years or so.

Goodlettesville Tn. Annual show. free too the public.

A couple of other local AACA shows in the middle tn region i cannot remeber where. They are free and open to the public with good facilities and parking and management.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But what events are open to the car loving public? </div></div>

Mostly Goodguys events, and of course the Street Machine Nationals.

Seriously I doubt that even a tiny fragment of the general public is aware of any AACA events outside of Hershey, and then only those who are already hobbiests would know about Hershey. Virtually all of the non-member cognoscenti I know in the hobby I'm sure couldn't name a single other event.

You can open anything to the public. If they don't know about it, it's a moot point.

[1937hd45]

Diz, I think you should get a story in the local paper two weeks before the event to let everyone in the area know the meet will take place. I can't remember the last AACA Grand National I went to, but I always think of them as a CCCA type of closed door event. Having this type of event as your first visit to the hobby may not give one the same effect as a local meet or AACA National event. If you bring a car to a Grand National you are there to get a trophy.

[R W Burgess]

Dave, all Goodguys/NSRA Events are pay to get in only, then you have to pay for parking, unless someone drops you off. As far as local AACA Regional shows, they all have free admission in my area. You only have to pay for parking. And, our club, the Northen Neck Region advertizes locally for our show, with signs, flyers, and even radio annoucements the week or so before the show. But, Diz is right, a Grand National show should be better advertized. Wayne

[Ron Green]

The GN in Moline a few years back was well advertised and the whole town came out, even in the begining during the rain. It was great time and was full of people all day. In fact they had the vehicles lined up on main street with a fair amount of the streets closed.

1937 not everyone is there for a trophy. My car already has a GN senior and I am going to meet some friends and have a good time and maybe eat some wings at the Anchor Grill.

[Guest stude8]

At the risk of polarizing attitudes toward taking part in a "Public" event, I had my 1930 Studebaker displayed at a non-auto enthusiast oriented event a few years ago at a prominent country club in our Chicago area. A nice catered dinner was part of the perks, supposedly first class clients, right?

Well the two worst situations that arose that I can recall were the woman and husband who without even asking who owned the car planted their 5 year old on a front fender for a photo shoot! They were upset when it was suggested their action was out of limits.

The second was what I had to deal with, a well oiled club member with glass of wine in hand (Sloshing about I'll add) simply opened the car door and climbed in to see the view from the drivers seat. First order was to relieve him of the sloshing wine glass then remind him of how much time and expense went into the mohair upholstery, it didn't have much effect in his condition.

The thing to remember is non-auto oriented folks don't have a clue why these 70 year old cars look so nice, some kind of police force has to be in place or you simply can't take your eyes off your property during a public event. Stude8

[48LCCOUPE]

No doubt! Here in tourist world there is one gathering every Saturday night at Old Town in Kissimmee near Disney. All the tourists, the non car people, the folks with beer in hand... you can't turn your back! Plus they all have eyesight imbedded in their hands, they have to touch and rub to see it seems. Then they don't understand english (or pretend not to) so the beat goes on.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The thing to remember is non-auto oriented folks don't have a clue why these 70 year old cars look so nice, some kind of police force has to be in place or you simply can't take your eyes off your property during a public event. </div></div>

For years I helped to run and supervise a major charity show in Schenley Park in Pittsburgh, which is adjacent to the U. if Pittsburgh and a 10 minute walk from some of the roughest neighborhoods in the city. PA law doesn't permit the restriction of/charging for admission in a public park. The show consisted at that time of up to 1800+ cars with attendance of 100,000+.

Stories like Stude8's did occasionally occur, but they were <span style="font-weight: bold">very</span> rare. Most years no incidents occured at all. In 9 years the worst thing I ever personally had to handle were kids riding bikes through the show and an errant Frisbee. The vast majority of my time, and the vast majority of time I saw others spending, was taken up with explaining Paxton superchargers and tappet oilers to little kids and young families that couldn't possibly afford a car with them for themselves (at that time).

Hopefully some of those people are reading <span style="font-style: italic">Hemmings</span> and <span style="font-style: italic">Auto Trader</span> right now looking to get one of those cars for themselves. The people who were excluded from similar experiences by events held on the sly from them are probably looking through Momo catalogs right now.

[ex98thdrill]

Don't forget the guy with a dog so when the dog goes around the front or back of your vehicle, the leash goes across your fender. I've seen that, as well as the dogs jumping on the side of it.

....Another experience, seeing a person open the hood of a vehicle with piano style hinges and seeing some idiot scratch the fender down to bare metal because they didn't know how to open the hood.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Dave,Apparently many members vieing for a Grand National trophy do not CARE if anyone sees and experiences their cars.Let me propose the idea of NO meet and the AACA will fly selected judges around the country to judge these cars in their plastic bubbles.I am NOT denying the fact that YOU have to babysit your car but i think those BAD examples are EXCEPTIONS.Maybe i should give out the name of a Lincoln Zephyr owner who consistently out scores trailered cars and he DRIVES his car EVERYWHERE.BEST of BOTH worlds.diz

[Guest boblove]

The Tallahassee Region just hosted the Southeastern Regional Meet and we know where we are headed! We had a great meet that was attended by some of the finest cars and some of AACA's finest members. Not once did I hear of any fears of the "Hoi Poloi" getting too close to our prized possessions; or dread that the masses would not appreciate our pride and passion in the hobby of auto collecting. In fact, our largest single class was DPC! That's Driver Participation Class to those not familiar. Sure we had the Cords, Cadillacs, Italias, and yes, even a Duryea, and every car was out in the open, free to be seen and even touched by the public. We had a good turnout by the public (helped, no doubt by the great weather), who seemed to really appreciate these wonderful examples of automotive history. We felt that the public appreciated the opportunity to enjoy such a collection sometimes only found by paying an admission to a fancy museum. This is living history and I, for one, am proud to be a part of keeping it alive for young and old to enjoy.

[DizzyDale]

Dear Bob,THANKS for your input,Your show sounds GREAT,the way it SHOULD be.People tell me a Grand National Is DIFFERENT,WHY is that?Though i have not ever been i think the show in New Bern is PERFECT,on the streets and SHARING with[oh my God the public].diz

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, Diz...good point, bud.

I attended New Bern and Moline...

--Fondest memory of Moline's AGNM: A gent came up to me and literally asked me to my face: "Where did all of these nice cars come from?" (He was flabberghasted when I told him from all over the U.S. of A.) I, in turn, learned a lot about his neck of the woods. My car was directly across the street from the very interesting John Deere Pavillion. I had more questions about the equipment than he did about the cars. We chatted for at least 30 minutes. When I asked what a Combine on the mall cost without accessories, he told me about a cool $180,000+.

As you concur, Diz...beautiful display of cars with many families visiting.

--New Bern: Went there, too, with Ron and Judy Flory...great friends. This was also held on the streets. Fondest Memory: "Very old, quaint shops, stores, Pepsi Cola's founding site, Southern hospitality from total stangers, and, the cars...One would walk up to an intersection of streets, look left and see '50's Chevy's, look another way, and see '20's trucks, go wherever, and see other vehicles. Just a great time in New Bern that I won't forget...

Getting a scratch here, riled up there is all part of showing a vehicle in my opinion...when you see parents walking up with there young children attempting to educate them on cars, things will happen.

Where I have gotten a kick out of the show deal is offering to let the little person sit in the seat, close the hood & trunk, and, let Dad, or, Grandad take a photo...amazing how the smiles pop up. Love it when a child gives me a perplexed look that says: "huh, can I?". These are true stories of which I have been blessed...

Regards, Peter...

--

[Guest]

The problem as I see it is that there are a lot of people giving out information and policies about which they know absolutely nothing. In this case I am talking about the Region member from whom Diz got bad info. I'm NOT talking about you Diz.

Then it gets onto this forum and suddenly it becomes "The Word" to the entire world.

If a Region wants their Meet, and that includes a Grand National, to be advertised to the public they can do it, but at their own expense and in whatever manner they choose. Conversely if they don't want to publicize it, they don't have to. Regions have a lot of control over their meets when it comes to selecting dates, meet sites, weekend activities, publicity and the like. When it comes to things relating to judging, car classes and such, they must follow the guidelines.

AACA is not now and never has followed a policy of exclusion. We may come up short on making ourselves known, but if the public finds our National Meets they will get the best <span style="font-weight: bold">FREE</span> antique vehicle exhibition around.

So folks, let's try not to pass on bad information gotten from people who either just don't know what they are talking about or have a bone to pick with somebody over something.

Nuff said. ~ hvs

[Dave@Moon]

Howard,

I don't think Dale got bad information. I think he was in disagreement with majority opinion in the Region Group on local advertizing.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ....The subject of advertising came up,of course we advertise in the AACA magazine to let all the members know about the meet,but there is almost NO local advertising because as it was explained to me "This is a meet for the members only,we really do not want anybody pushing a baby buggy into any of our cars"and so on.How the --LL is the club going to grow or even stay the same with this attitude.... </div></div>

I don't see where anyone suggested that the AACA meets are closed to the public, though a few possibly hobby agoraphobic individuals may be seen to be suggesting that the events should be closed.

[Guest]

Dave ~ Are you and I reading different material here? What Diz posted and what you interpret to be a majority opinion in the Region is NOT in accord with any AACA policy I have ever heard of.

Now read further, including your own posts, and you will see a trend toward AACA bashing because of a perceived policy of exclusion. All I asked was that people not make judgements based on inaccurate assumptions which often come about as the result of misinformation posted on the forum.

Now that's not so hard to understand, is it?

hvs

[DizzyDale]

Dear Howard and Dave,The meeting had about 20 members in attendance and the people sitting on either side of me were apparently trophy hunters.Nobody else said much but these two expressed concern for their cars if anybody besides the judges showed up.I am the new kid on the block and i guess the ATTITUDE caught me off guard,NEVER even considered it.I know the AACA did not get to be the organization it has become over the years with this kind of ATTITUDE.diz

[DizzyDale]

Dear Peter,I know what you mean in regard to letting little people sit in your car.A number of times at the races this has happened usually in the pits.The time i will ALWAYS remember was in the staging lanes getting ready to make a run and a young family was walking by.They stopped and asked if JUNIOR could sit in the car and they could get a picture.Of course, the only problem was in this particular car there was room for one and i was all buckled in the car.Ended up lifting up the body and junior sat on my lap and momma took the pics.I am sure THEY thought I made their day,how wrong they were.diz

[1937hd45]

Diz, Your two "pals" at the meeting are just what I envision as the typical competitor the Grand National, sorry if someone takes this the wrong way.I did judge at the first Grand National in 1980, but can't remember judging at another.Do other judges avoid judging at Grand Nationals or am I alone on this view?

[Guest]

You are not alone Bob. ~ hvs

[Team Hudson]

Bob, your region did a mighty fine job!

[Guest rcirilli]

I almost dare not post here but I will anyway. AACA judges don't generally shy away from Grand nationals, quite the contrary, as these are the best cars in the world. I think where some of the feelings about spectators come from is the natural fear that the cars will be damaged by people who are not aware of how easy it is to cause damage. It has to be kept in mind that most cars attending a G N have only been completed within the last couple of years. It is still very fresh in the owners mind how much over his budget he spent to get it in the condition it is in. Those who are on their 5th or 6th restoration maybe be more relaxed but first or second timers are not. As a rule AACA car owners are no different than any others, they are proud and protective. The first time we showed our 57 Chevy someone came up and put a shoe on the front bumper to re-tie it, my wife went through the roof because he had just walked through a field and visably had small stones clinging to his shoe bottoms. They ended up on the bumper. We kept showing but it sure makes you apprehensive. Fir what it's worth.

[Guest]

Bob ~ I never avoided judging at Grand Nationals, but honestly I never really enjoyed it. They are mostly held during the hottest part of the summer and often in the hottest parts of the country, as was the case in Moline, IL a few years back.

What most of you never experience is the aftermath in the world of the VP of Class Judging. From personal experience I can tell you it is not fun. Everybody who gets the first is happy as a clam, but the lower finisher's can get a bit testy.

That is understandable, because to even get there at all, the vehicle has to be a top winner and the owner honestly believes his car is as good as anybody else's. When he gets a 2nd, 3rd or 4th [a GN 4th means that they don't even call your name at the awards banquet, as Benny Bootle used to say] then he feels that he has been wronged. It is so easy to lose that 6 points that will knock you out of a tie with that 399 or 400 point vehicle.

Having worked Grand Nationals as a field judge, Team Capt., Deputy, National Awards judge and VP - Class Judging I have seen it all. I never enjoyed the judging, but always enjoyed the company of the people I judged with.

Just one mans opinion and observations. ~ hvs

[Terry Bond]

As a past VP of Natl Activities I can tell you that we've always encouraged folks to promote their events, but not required it as it's up to the host group to determine what they can handle. I personally feel we have an obligation to help "educate" the public to what our hobby (and AACA) is all about. In this day with a car show on every shopping center parking lot on any given weekend, we have a golden opportunity to present AACA to the public. But- it all depends on how equipped the region is to handle the crowds and that includes parking them, handicapped access, roadway systems, security, traffic control, etc. etc. Hosting a meet is a big undertaking and mixing in the public can add to the expense and workload for sure. But-one way to handle that is with effective publicity. Pre-event publicity can educate the public as to what the show is all about and what to expect. When you advertise the meet, do things like stating that "The public can see the cars between 1 and 3 PM" and that way, it is less likely to interfere with getting show cars on the field, etc. You'll also help eliminate some anger from that spectator who shows up at 5PM and can't find any cars on the field.

Over the years I've really enjoyed judging at the AGN -you get a chance to see the best of the best. It's a challenge, but a great experience. About the only time I was less than thrilled with my assignment was when I had to judge chassis in class 25 (sports cars)!

Terry

[ex98thdrill]

By showing the cars, my father and I have found more parts that we needed than we have by keeping the cars parked in the garage.

I prefer the National meets because as of this writing, I have never experienced a problem with spectators in reference to respect or lack of respect towards your vehicle. My guess is that perhaps the region doesn't want the crowds at the AGNM in an effort to reduce potential problems.

I plan on being in Buffalo, and it'll be my first experience of going to an AGNM. As far as past, present or future event activities at the AGNM, I won't know the difference between right and wrong for the reason of never being to one before.

At a local show or at a cruise night, I've seen a different breed of people. I've seen people sliding down fenders on the 20's and 30's cars, dogs jumping on doors, belt buckles on the fenders to admire the engines, kids jumping on the running boards, fenders scratched because someone took it upon themselves to open a piano style hood (which if they didn't know how to open the hood, they probably had no idea what the engine was once they looked at it).

For the most part the shows are enjoyable, but the respect, education and common sense level seems to be higher at a National meet than a local level show.