1929 Franklin Model 135

[alsancle]

I need our Franklin guys to chime in.   I see similar cars that are not anywhere near as nice for 10-20k.   This car looks like it is tires away from being fun.  Almost seems too good to be true although pictures tend to lie.

I despise the ad.   They have no idea how to sell a car.  I did not include the history lesson that made up 50% of the text.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/116119214609

 

Built in Syracuse - New York, this beautiful 1929 Franklin for sale here was restored to its original condition in Bakersfield - California and won numerous classic car shows until 2016 when the car was last time driven, after that the car was displayed in a private classic car museum in Bakersfield - CA. This is a big and heavy automobile, full of prewar goodies, dual side mounts, wire wheels and old white wall tires, Air Cooled Inline 6 Cylinder engine and manual transmission, clean engine compartment, very nice and shiny 2 tone color combination - red and black, chrome is in excellent condition, bumpers, big headlights, grill, Franklin logo hub caps.... all look like they were re-chromed yesterday, massive Lion hood ornament, nice and clean interior - very spacious too..... Solid body, solid frame, California car, no rust. We have not started the engine, all the fluids should be verified / changed before attempting to turn on the engine, car will be sold in as is condition. If you're looking for something like this here is your opportunity to get one for less $$, 1929 Franklin Sedan automobiles are selling for $ 40,000 and up ..... Clean Title in hand, car is ready to go to a new home ! 

 

[John Bloom]

I agree it looks like a good deal for the money, assuming it runs. A similar car is trying to be sold that also looks nice but has a thrown rod and I don’t think they can get $7,000 for it. My point of saying that is once it’s verified that this car runs, I think it’s a steal at that price.
 

The other reality is so many cars are listed at a price that they will never sell for, and it gives people a false sense of what Price these cars change hands. Lots of this prewar stuff sells for 50% of the asking price once contact is made.

 

I like it.

[Walt G]

Headlamp bar is mounted upside down. The lion mascot was used from 1925-28 but many have found their way onto the 1929 cars because they look fancier. Should have a plain cap. Are the hand throttles missing at the center of the steering wheel? can't tell by the pictures . The 1929 series 135 and 137 had issues with cracking of the valve seat in the cylinders after many decades, car will still run but makes me wonder if this has any of that. A number of owners of the series 13 of 1929 look to buy  non cracked cylinders to have on hand. Neat car but non authentic color on body and hood are show off /looka me colors. ( I am a bit of a purist and like period colors on cars )

[alsancle]

32 minutes ago, Walt G said:

Headlamp bar is mounted upside down. The lion mascot was used from 1925-28 but many have found their way onto the 1929 cars because they look fancier. Should have a plain cap. Are the hand throttles missing at the center of the steering wheel? can't tell by the pictures . The 1929 series 135 and 137 had issues with cracking of the valve seat in the cylinders after many decades, car will still run but makes me wonder if this has any of that. A number of owners of the series 13 of 1929 look to buy  non cracked cylinders to have on hand. Neat car but non authentic color on body and hood are show off /looka me colors. ( I am a bit of a purist and like period colors on cars )

Thanks Walt.   I don't HATE the colors the way I usually do so I figured that blackwalls would tone things down enough to make it acceptable.   Tossing the ornament and the sidemount covers and mirrors could happen before it got off the transporter.

[Walt G]

If the body and hood color were more appropriate the white walls would work better, I think the black wire wheels are great as are the tire covers as they match the color of the wheels. I can understand the side mounted mirrors- if you have a car if that era you can't see squat out the sides of the car and mirrors although yet another sphere shape do serve a very necessary purpose.  Side mount mirrors on an open car ( at least pre 1935) are even more important as it is difficult to mount a mirror on the windshield post if you do you have to bore holes in a casting, and if you have wind wings then they are in the way to do so effectively. 

Edited March 26 by Walt G (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Just now, Walt G said:

If the body and hood color were more appropriate the white walls would work better, I think the black wire wheels are great as are the tire covers as they match the color of the wheels. I can understand the side mounted mirrors- if you have a car if that era you can't see squat out the sides of the car and mirrors although yet another sphere shape do serve a very necessary purpose.  Sine mount mirrors on an open car ( at least pre 1935) are even more important as it is difficult to mount a mirror on the windshield post if you do you have to bore holes in a casting, and if you have wind wings then they are in the way to do so effectively. 

Walt,   I have gone to the removable suction cup mirrors.  They work better and you can take them off.  I've found that 75% of all side mount mirrors are useless.

[28StutzCabriolet]

The side mount mirrors are garbage reproductions. Deposit directly into metal recycling. The fender lights are off a Packard. The correct Ryan-lite fender lights are rare. Color is appalling in my opinion. The club sedan is rare however, and quite appealing. I do not know if Franklin used leather on  the back quarter, but I would want to know. The interior looks serviceable, but is far from correct. These are great running and driving cars. I would get rid of the radiator ornament  - I'm a purist like Walt. Finally, the bar between the headlights is upside down. 

I would approach carefully. If the restorer was careless with the above items, did they reuse the old valves instead of installing new ones?  Very often I see the mechanical following the quality of the rest of the restoration. But who knows - maybe the guy was a great mechanic.

 

[Walt G]

On second look I agree the parking lights on top of the fenders are incorrect. The "Ryan" lights in the headlamps with the bulge at the edge are correct. The parking lights should match with a similar lens. But in 1929 you could have had the non bulging Ryan lights - for both head and parking lights, most likely they were Twilite lens. There was a club sedan and town sedan body style, very much similar with no rear quarter window but the town sedan body had a padded roof and the club sedan did not, and town sedan rear quarter roof area was larger as well, deeper front to back.

[mikewest]

The car looks like it needs a little sorting out but I don't see anything to be alarmed about. The red looks great and could of been totally authentic.  The club has several red  open cars (2 of them 1929 137 models) and completely  authentic. There are way too many OLD MAN GREEN  cars in the world. I think if it was in my garage running I'd value at 15000 -17000. 

Edited March 26 by mikewest (see edit history)

[ak]

This forum attracts some really ugly people. 

[mikewest]

John , remember what we were taught in Sunday school... Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder! Smile.

[cjmarzoli]

Anyone seen tires like this before?  They have two grooves cut around the outer whitewalls to make "stripes".  Nice touch and I bet they are really old.   Color is loud and likely not correct, but I'd rather have this than some horrible light blue or baby poop green like many of them are.

[mikewest]

They are the old Lee tire. Later Custom Classics. They are a period vorrect design and look great on Franklins.

There is no correct color for a Franklin. The factory would give you what you want. ( WELL Documented) Tom Hubbard painted his Super rare phaeton bright red. The colored brochures  showed red cars. This car is correct whether  the old school moms like it or not.. Besides the car is Model  Ford money... who really cares anymore. It's lot more fun that tombstone  gray old old man green!

[Walt G]

15 hours ago, mikewest said:

Super rare phaeton bright red

I thought he painted it brown when he restored it ( and it remains in that color until today) and that it was red when he bought it? That car was green when new " old man green " as some people refer to that color. Please share with us the WELL documented information on color from the factory in their publications issued in the era the cars were built.

My first person conversations with factory employees in the early 1970s when I helped host former employees once a year at a luncheon at the Franklin trek to assist W.Chapin Condit a former engineer for Franklin , never heard them say anything about bright colors ( ie red) ever leaving the factory.  Again - Please share scans of the factory material you must have based your comments on. thank you.

[58L-Y8]

My understanding with regard to color choices in the period was those in the warm spectrum were generally considered gauche, reflecting poor taste unless applied to fire department or commercial vehicles.  An extroverted body style such as a roadster or sport phaeton might be acceptable but not closed cars.  A further detriment was the poor stability and durability of the red pigment formulations which resulted in fading, chalking caused by UV light exposure. 

[RansomEli]

"Headlamp bar is mounted upside down".  Nice catch, Walt. Now that you pointed it out, I can't help but notice.

 

The red paint is a bit too bright, but I wouldn't go so far as to repaint anything. Nice chrome - that will save you thousands.

 

The fly in the ointment is that the car has been stored since 2016. If you can carefully inspect and rehabilitate the engine without much expense, then you would have a good deal. 

 

And I have a '29 135 with the lion.  I love the ornament and wouldn't remove it for the world.

[Walt G]

19 minutes ago, RansomEli said:

I have a '29 135 with the lion.  I love the ornament and wouldn't remove it for the world.

I don't blame you that lion mascot is one of the best ornaments ever cast. The plain flat cap used on the series 13 of 1929 was "ok" and didn't distract the eye. I think Franklin realized that an accessory mascot of an airplane or a stylized bird was what made people look at their cars more. the accessory bird mascot for 1931 that was then adapted in modified form for the series 16 of 1932-33 was a spectacular piece of art deco design.

[mikewest]

Bright RED Franklins  have been common place since the inception  of Franklin. Ill offer examples  from period  factory brochures in 1929 and 1930.  These pieces of literature are commonplace on Ebay and  even the club library. 

When I restored  the 1929  model 137  that Bob Cornman owns today I didnt care for the color that it was originally. It was  a dark copper body with matching copper fenders and aprons. I had several long winded  calls to Tom Hubbard  who  graciously spent time with me on the telephone. He wasnt in good health but still took my calls . I told him I wanted to paint the car Satin Red   with maroon fenders. He told me that Franklin  was in the business to sell cars and that his conversations  with factory  people  confirmed if a customer  wanted  "Special Paint" and could pay for it, they would get it.  

He also pointed out standard paint jobs  in red  were not a option but  in the general lineup. Im enclosing a few  shots from the large colored brochures Franklin gave out at their dealerships. 

Do I think Hubbard was the final note in authenticity ???? Im not sure , but I do think he had a better handle on it that most alive today. 

I think the 29 Franklin sedan in question here is a real sharp car for the money  (Model A Ford Money)and  for a few grand could be resurrected. All comments ere are of my opinion only.. 

 

Edited March 28 by mikewest (see edit history)

[mikewest]

Lastly this article was written by Tom Hubbard . I scanned  just a portion of it  where he is talking about body paint.  

 

[mikewest]

A PINK FRANKLIN????  This is one I hope never gets reproduced....Smile.....

[Walt G]

Great you proved my point ! Thanks - read the second paragraph down of what Tom Hubbard said ": Reflecting the times.......".  Well then as you stated "old man green" was what the cars were panted along with other conservative colors.

Magazine advertising put cars in colors to attract the reader- often not offered by the factory but they did seek customers so a flashy color on any body style is what was put in a magazine ad. One of my professors in college when I was studying art was an illustrator in the 1930s - all this in the late 1960s early 1970s and he was the one who told us of what and how things were illustrated - I learned how to use an airbrush from him. Magazine advertising was there to capture the readers attention and eye to sell a product. they did what ever it took. The magazine ad of the pink color on the sedan perfectly proves my point, thank you, Sales brochures were closer to the truer colors of what was available when customers actually placed and order.  Note that the one sedan is in red, compare it to the colors of the other 15 body styles .............the bright color  - yellow is on an open body style a roadster.  I agree that if a customer wanted a special color then for an additional fee they could order it but 9 times out of 10 they did not . Look at what the weekly wage was in the 1929-33 era and was anyone really spending and extra months wages to have a new car painted a not stock color? Very Rarely.

Yes the phaeton you restored You chose to paint red and open cars most always were lighter/brighter colors. The car in question is not your phaeton restoration but a town sedan .

I do not try to rewrite history,  but as others here may possibly agree think that to be authentic period colors then have accurate - in color, shade and even combination of colors. Looks like we will agree to disagree.

[63RedBrier]

Edited March 28 by 63RedBrier
Fall Hershey 2023! (see edit history)

[JRA]

On 3/26/2024 at 12:07 PM, alsancle said:

Walt,   I have gone to the removable suction cup mirrors.  They work better and you can take them off.  I've found that 75% of all side mount mirrors are useless.

I would say 90% !