1940 V16 Cadillac, not mine.

[Xander Wildeisen]

https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/654134732743707/?ref=browse_tab

[alsancle]

It never ceases to amaze me how horrible an advertisement someone can dream up for a semi desirable car. I have no idea what’s going on here, although I only looked at it through my phone. But I did go directly to Facebook.

[suchan]

The "LaSalle" is a 1939 V16 coupe, and the other Caddy is a nice 1940 V16 sedan. 

Video is like the blind leading the blind; neither quite seems to know what's there.

Pretty sure $55K per car is an overreach, though. Both need interiors and who knows what else.

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

The one for sale is evidently a limousine.  These later

V-16's don't bring the high prices of the earlier ones,

and limousines always lag in price as well.

 

I think, if the car were in excellent condition, the price

might not be much higher than the $55,000 he's asking.

[deac]

I don't think I have seen crappier pictures than what's here!

[Xander Wildeisen]

Question, what is a realistic estimate for a total V16 engine rebuild. Usable core engine pieces, just needing everything replaced and rebuilt?

[alsancle]

25 minutes ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Question, what is a realistic estimate for a total V16 engine rebuild. Usable core engine pieces, just needing everything replaced and rebuilt?

Five years ago, a friend had one done by one of the best shops in the country. Final bill was 65k.

[Matt Harwood]

1 minute ago, alsancle said:

Five years ago, a friend had one done by one of the best shops in the country. Final bill was 65k.

That's a bargain.

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

That's a bargain.

I think it would be an extra 20 K these days. Every engine is different though…

[Xander Wildeisen]

That’s crazy, hello 350/350. Sell the V16

[George Smolinski]

If you owned a V16 car and the engine was bad, can a period correct V8 be swapped?

[alsancle]

1 minute ago, George Smolinski said:

If you owned a V16 car and the engine was bad, can a period correct V8 be swapped?

 

Yes,  if you want to turn your 40K project car in to a 10K project.

[George Smolinski]

1 minute ago, alsancle said:

 

Yes,  if you want to turn your 40K project car in to a 10K project.

If I bought one of these and the engine was bad, I don't think I'd want to pay $75-85,000 to rebuild the engine. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

The body style will determine if the car is saved or not. Your V16 car better be a convertible coupe. A V16 in a limousine body style is the kiss of death for a restoration.

[Matt Harwood]

1 hour ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

That’s crazy, hello 350/350. Sell the V16

 

That demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of why certain cars are special. The late V16 Cadillacs are just big, frumpy sedans. With a small block Chevy in there, it's nothing but a goofy old car with arguably less value than it has as a V16 project. The engine is the entire reason for its continued existence. That misunderstanding has resulted in the deaths of a lot of great cars.

 

Making it move isn't the point with a car like this. Without the V16, it's just an ugly, big, clumsy, uncomfortable, uninteresting old sedan that will still cost a fortune to paint and trim.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[alsancle]

What Matt said.

[Xander Wildeisen]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

That demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of why certain cars are special. The late V16 Cadillacs are just big, frumpy sedans. With a small block Chevy in there, it's nothing but a goofy old car with arguably less value than it has as a V16 project. The engine is the entire reason for its continued existence. That misunderstanding has resulted in the deaths of a lot of great cars.

 

Making it move isn't the point with a car like this. Without the V16, it's just an ugly, big, clumsy, uncomfortable, uninteresting old sedan that will still cost a fortune to paint and trim.

 

 

Not a misunderstanding, just a reality. Fully understand what you are saying, but the car becomes a victim of looming cost involved. Awful lot of out of service historic battle ships, that will never sail again because of cost involved. To purchase that, and dive into a full restoration. Requires a person not only with large amounts of disposable income. But also a desire to persevere a piece of history, that no one else will.

[Xander Wildeisen]

This is the second time I have posted this car. About 3 years ago, you can probably find it. Still no buyers.

[alsancle]

88k for a super nice running and driving car.

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf23/hershey/lots/r0113-1940-cadillac-series-90-v-16-imperial-sedan-by-fleetwood/1384988

 

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

Cheaper to buy that car just for the engine.

[alsancle]

Just now, Xander Wildeisen said:

Cheaper to buy that car just for the engine.

 

Don't forget the 75k paint job. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

That’s before the cut and buff.

[George Smolinski]

7 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

That demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of why certain cars are special. The late V16 Cadillacs are just big, frumpy sedans. With a small block Chevy in there, it's nothing but a goofy old car with arguably less value than it has as a V16 project. The engine is the entire reason for its continued existence. That misunderstanding has resulted in the deaths of a lot of great cars.

 

Making it move isn't the point with a car like this. Without the V16, it's just an ugly, big, clumsy, uncomfortable, uninteresting old sedan that will still cost a fortune to paint and trim.

 

 

So, would it be sacrilegious to swap a good running 16 from a frumpy sedan into one of the more desirable models? And are they at all interchangeable from year to year and body style to body style?

[Grimy]

23 minutes ago, George Smolinski said:

So, would it be sacrilegious to swap a good running 16 from a frumpy sedan into one of the more desirable models? And are they at all interchangeable from year to year and body style to body style?

A whole bunch of people thought of that about 40 years ago, George.  As of about 25 years ago, reportedly there were more 1938-40 Cad V-16 *open* cars in the CLC roster than Cadillac ever built.  Pretty much all except front sheet metal interchanges with Cadillac Series 75 (V8 engines) of the same years, so frumpy old V-16 sedans and limos gave up their engines, front sheet metal, horn buttons, and fender spears to Series 75 open cars which -- presto, change-o -- became Series 90 (V-16) open cars.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Looks like history took a back seat, or shall I say a rumble seat. To make way for finished value.🤨

[alsancle]

22 hours ago, Grimy said:

A whole bunch of people thought of that about 40 years ago, George.  As of about 25 years ago, reportedly there were more 1938-40 Cad V-16 *open* cars in the CLC roster than Cadillac ever built.  Pretty much all except front sheet metal interchanges with Cadillac Series 75 (V8 engines) of the same years, so frumpy old V-16 sedans and limos gave up their engines, front sheet metal, horn buttons, and fender spears to Series 75 open cars which -- presto, change-o -- became Series 90 (V-16) open cars.

When you are dealing with high-end pre-war cars. Nothing is ever as it seems. This is also why you need to know what you’re doing if you’re spending real money on a car.  Somebody correct me, but I believe the Cadillac bill sheets are tied to the engine number not the chassis number. So theoretically, these made up car are easy to flush out.

Edited November 10, 2023 by alsancle (see edit history)

[edinmass]

19 hours ago, alsancle said:

I think it would be an extra 20 K these days. Every engine is different though…

Anyone who knows what they are doing.......you are WAY low. Some backyard hack overhaul with used pistons....maybe. Wanna guess what a gasket kit for that thing costs? 

[alsancle]

17 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Anyone who knows what they are doing.......you are WAY low. Some backyard hack overhaul with used pistons....maybe. Wanna guess what a gasket kit for that thing costs? 

Eddy,  the 65K from 5 years ago was done by the best in the business and you would agree if I told you.   Keep in mind this is the flathead not the 30-37.   I think 85K would get that motor done unless there are extreme issues.

[Grimy]

3 hours ago, alsancle said:

When you were dealing with high-end pre-war cars. Nothing is ever as it seems. This is also why you need to know what you’re doing if you’re spending real money on a car.  Somebody correct me, but I believe the Cadillac bill sheets are tied to the engine number not the chassis number. So theoretically, these made up car are easy to flush out.

AJ, the chassis serial numbers are on top of the frame when you look down as if checking the oil level (dipstick is under filler cap) on the left side, and the prefixes of serial numbers are different 90 vs 75.  I judged a few of those 30 years ago while owning a 1939 75 (frumpy ol') 7-p sedan for 42 years.  There seemed to be a very heavy coating of paint on top the front frames on open cars, more so than on closed cars 🙂

[edinmass]

Do the math and just the parts.  You’re probably talking 4 to 5000 just for the Pistons. Plus the valves. Bearings are going to run you 7 to 9. He’s got two water pumps and 1 1/2 distributors. I rebuilt one 30 years ago. Everything on that car is hard. I think you could probably do it for 80 today but that doesn’t include the removal and install. If the thing is a mess, it’s a whole lot more. I bet it’s $2000 just to grind the crank. Surface the head in the blocks. Then you have the two crazy water tubes. Those are a living nightmare. I’d rather do the overhead 16. 
 

[58L-Y8]

13 hours ago, Grimy said:

A whole bunch of people thought of that about 40 years ago, George.  As of about 25 years ago, reportedly there were more 1938-40 Cad V-16 *open* cars in the CLC roster than Cadillac ever built.  Pretty much all except front sheet metal interchanges with Cadillac Series 75 (V8 engines) of the same years, so frumpy old V-16 sedans and limos gave up their engines, front sheet metal, horn buttons, and fender spears to Series 75 open cars which -- presto, change-o -- became Series 90 (V-16) open cars.

Until I read this I'd almost forgotten about this encounter.  About thirty years ago, I met my sister's teaching colleague whose husband who had collected a restorable '38 75 convertible coupe plus two flathead sixteen engines and all the Sixteen-specific sheet metal and trim parts with the idea to convert his 75 into the Sixteen he really wanted.   Located in the Broadmoor neighborhood of Colorado Springs, he was debating the costs of having one of the professional restoration shops contract the project.  He wasn't skilled or equipped to do the work himself.   He told me the cars were all local to the area, that the Sixteen parts came from two different 'big ol' sedans' in an area salvage yard.  I never did hear whether the project was completed or not.   The other car he had was probably far scarcer: a 1942 Hudson Commodore Eight convertible, in need of a total, ambitious restoration.

[alsancle]

These are interesting cars but they suffer from three issues:

 

1.   You need stepladder to see the engine it is so low in the engine compartment.   Opening the hood should be the wow moment for these.

 

2.   I drove one of these back to back with a 41 Roadmaster.  Both cars were high dollar restorations and well sorted.  I couldn't tell the difference.

 

3.   Styling of that era is not the pinnacle of prewar,  but the Caddy in particular is not super attractive.

[deac]

7 minutes ago, alsancle said:

These are interesting cars but they suffer from three issues:

 

1.   You need stepladder to see the engine it is so low in the engine compartment.   Opening the hood should be the wow moment for these.

 

2.   I drove one of these back to back with a 41 Roadmaster.  Both cars were high dollar restorations and well sorted.  I couldn't tell the difference.

 

3.   Styling of that era is not the pinnacle of prewar,  but the Caddy in particular is not super attractive.

Okay as usual I'll take the Buick!

[suchan]

6 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Until I read this I'd almost forgotten about this encounter.  About thirty years ago, I met my sister's teaching colleague whose husband who had collected a restorable '38 75 convertible coupe plus two flathead sixteen engines and all the Sixteen-specific sheet metal and trim parts with the idea to convert his 75 into the Sixteen he really wanted.   Located in the Broadmoor neighborhood of Colorado Springs, he was debating the costs of having one of the professional restoration shops contract the project.  He wasn't skilled or equipped to do the work himself.   He told me the cars were all local to the area, that the Sixteen parts came from two different 'big ol' sedans' in an area salvage yard.  I never did hear whether the project was completed or not.   The other car he had was probably far scarcer: a 1942 Hudson Commodore Eight convertible, in need of a total, ambitious restoration.

This reminds me of the '37-'38 Buick Century sedans that were rebodied with Special convertible coupe bodies and passed off as original Century convertible coupes. All you had to do was check the ID plate  to know what was up, but not everyone does due diligence...

Edited November 9, 2023 by suchan
less words (see edit history)

[Packard enthus.]

On 11/9/2023 at 9:56 AM, alsancle said:

These are interesting cars but they suffer from three issues:

 

1.   You need stepladder to see the engine it is so low in the engine compartment.   Opening the hood should be the wow moment for these.

 

2.   I drove one of these back to back with a 41 Roadmaster.  Both cars were high dollar restorations and well sorted.  I couldn't tell the difference.

 

3.   Styling of that era is not the pinnacle of prewar,  but the Caddy in particular is not super attractive.

You "couldn't tell the difference" between a '41 Buick and a Cad.. V-16".    Well....I guess it is possible...if the Series 90's motor was BADLY in need of work.  No question those "Freballs" were nice smooth running motors, and in a light body, performed as well as a "90".  Be assured a properly maintained "90" is so much smoother than that '41 Buick...well...closest thing to an electric motor I've ever driven.  Will TRY and "attach" a photo of the Mae West 90 (now in a museum somewhere in the mid-west) when I owned it in the mid 1950's.  (sold it to Duke Shaffer, then Roy Schnieder had it for a while...lost track of it.  Sharp eyes will note the '75 grill when I had it.  I presume it was Schneider with his sources and knowledge, who came up with the '90 grill....? ? 

 

(added later -  the photo of Dave Perlmutter and myself in front of the '38  "90" apparently has too much resolution for this system...wont' upload....  ? ?