Towing Vehicle

[STEVE POLLARD]

My old 2007 GMC 1500 van will need to be replace soon. The few times that I tow with it, I never had an issue. I've been looking at the new Chevrolet Colorado truck, the specs say that it has  310HP, 7700 lbs max available towing and 6250 lbs GVWR. The cars that would be trailer are under 4000 lbs.... Just looking for some advise from the towing experts here if a vehicle this size ( mid-size truck ) could handle it.... 

 

Thanks !

 

 

Steve

[Trulyvintage]

The empty weight (curb weight) 

of the trailer you are towing

plus the weight of the vehicle

you are putting on or in the vehicle

determines the load you will be pulling

with a tow vehicle.

 

Topography - grades - altitude

along with weather and season

vary from trip to trip.

 

Only you can fill in the blanks.

 

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

[Marty Roth]

Working a mid-sized (and mid-capabilities?) vehicle to anywhere near the maximum of intended capabilities is not the best idea, at least in my experience.

Maybe, for a few bucks more over the long run, the full-sized, standard 1500, or even a 2500 series would better support your long range.

[STEVE POLLARD]

Hi Marty.....I just went onto the local Chevrolet Dealership website to get an ideal on the full size - STICKER SHOCK !!  LOL, unbelievable,  low range going around $50K to a $84K loaded truck.... I didn't realized how much that they have gone up. 2004 I purchased a new 1500 GMC which I paid $27K.

 

By the way, my daughter is still stationed in New Orleans.

 

 

 

[Avanti Bill]

I don't tow that often but when I do it is long distance and rarely flat.  I paid the price for a 3/4 ton diesel RAM with air ride.  It is like the trailer isn't even behind me.  My trailer weighs in at about 4500 LBS with the junk I carry and the heaviest car is about 4500 LBS so roughly 9000 max.  I feel I get the extra I spend on the Diesel when I trade at about 75,000 to 95,000 miles.  

[Century Eight]

If you dont like sticker shock, have you considered something preowned?  You could get an 2500HD and have a different daily driver and not have so much money tied up in it, if you have room for multiple vehicles.  Consider shopping at an RV Dealer because you might get lucky where some old guy has traded in his trailer and tow vehicle and you can buy the tow vehicle that might be a creampuff, and it could be a big engine/trans combination.   Just sayin’ because I see it when I’m not lookin’. 

 

The more I know about towing, the more I want power and with decent mantainence they go well past 200k miles.

[Century Eight]

Steve, btw my 93 Silverado 1500 is at 275k still going strong and holding down the mileage on my 04 GMC 2500 Texas Ranch Edition, which is only at 146k.  It only has to carry a loaf of bread occasionally and once in awhile a ‘40 Buick phaeton on a trailer.  Big difference with the 2500 in towing.   I dont think I’d want anything smaller.

[STEVE POLLARD]

51 minutes ago, Century Eight said:

Steve, btw my 93 Silverado 1500 is at 275k still going strong and holding down the mileage on my 04 GMC 2500 Texas Ranch Edition, which is only at 146k

Wow... Phil, my 04 GMC had a lot of rust issues.... granted, I drove that truck all year here in NY, but I took great care of it, pressure washing the underside during the winter months, the body was spotless, but then the cab corners started to rust then it went into the rockers.... then it just kept getting worse ( brake lines started to go and the frame as well ) the leaf spring hangers rusted / broke and the leaf spring went into the underside of the bed. The spent a lot of $$ on having sections of the frame repaired....it was a loosing battle, sad part is it only had 60,000 miles on her when I sold it. If not for the rust issues, I would still have it today.

 

 

 

 

[Century Eight]

 

Wow Steve, sorry for your predicament.  I would say that your region has something to do with it.  I have lived in Delaware since ‘86, and the climate is much nicer to cars.  When I lived in Ohio near Lake Erie before the nineties, I had a hard time getting 100k mileage on a car, because of the rust.  In Delaware, I go to junkyards and wonder why some cars are there, they are so clean.  I did lose my brake lines on the ‘04 a few years ago like many others because of the grade of steel brake line was so crappy.  The rest of the truck is still pristine but the 93 is finally starting to go.

 The climate is mild here which makes a big difference

[ex98thdrill]

I've towed with a 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and a one ton and at this point I will never buy another truck that is less than a 3/4 ton.  For two reasons:

 

1.  They hold the road a lot better than a 1/2 ton.

2.  Currently with the messed up state of New York, if you have a heavy duty 3/4 ton you don't have to plug it into emissions when the truck gets inspected where if you have a 1/2 ton and you have any check engine lights, they can be a pain in the butt come inspection time.

 

If you don't want to buy a brand new truck, my personal recommendations (which many people will differ with me):

 

1.  Buy a used truck from the south where rust isn't an issue.  Even if it's a high mileage vehicle, an engine swap in a rust free body will cost you a whole lot less.

2.  If you don't haul your car to that many meets, consider hiring someone to haul your car to the meet and back.  When a new pickup is going to run you in excess of $70,000, you can hire someone to haul your car to a lot of meets before you'll ever spend $70,000.

3.  Don't cut corners on your tow vehicle.  If you can't safely tow your vehicle to and from a meet or tour, you stand a chance to lose a whole lot more if you end up wrecking the truck, trailer and your show car going to and/or from a meet.  

 

When my dad was alive we used to push the envelope hauling our old fire trucks to a show and pulling it with our 3/4 ton pickup.  The GVW was within the limits, but we were within 500 pounds of being over the max GVW.  Because of the costs of what new trucks cost, we bought an old ladder truck and converted it into a fire truck hauler.  That truck weighs a whole lot less than what it did when it was a ladder truck, it stops better, and when we put the old truck on the back of it, you don't even know it's on there.  We built that hauler ourselves for less than $10,000 and couldn't begin to buy a truck and trailer to do the same job for less than $70,000.

 

Am I telling you to buy a ladder truck and do what we did??  NO!!  But I will remind you that most Fire Departments have brush trucks and mini pumpers that are on a one ton chassis.  You very well might be able to buy one of those for a whole lot less too.  Even if you bought a mini pumper, it most likely would be on a 4500 chassis, and you could probably get it cheap enough to where you could take the back end off of the truck, scrap it out, and have enough money to buy a used box to put on the chassis.  If you're using a van now, you can easily pick up a used ambulance that will have the suspension and power to tow what you need.  There are a lot of van ambulances out there too.

 

Prior to COVID, I know a lot of people who leased trucks and now that their leases are about to expire, the buyout agreement that was on the lease is way less than the truck is worth now.  If you know someone who is leasing a pickup that is towards the end of their lease, it might pay you to have them buy out the truck and sell it to you.

 

Again I feel your pain.  My 3/4 ton has seen better days so now if I'm taking one of our old cars to a meet, I'm towing with the 1/2 ton.  I don't like it, but it isn't enough to make me want to make payments on a new truck.  Meantime I'm saving the money to where I hope to buy a new 3/4 ton within the next five years.  My 1/2 ton has 28,000 miles on it and has never seen snow, so it should get me by in the meantime.

 

I guess at this point, if I were in your shoes I'd ask yourself, what is the price difference between what you can get the job done versus what will do a better job and not compromise safety??  If the value of losing the car and the trailer is greater than the price difference between trucks I'd go with the heavier truck.

 

In terms of buying an old brush truck or mini pumper from a fire department, consider this.  In many cases when a fire department is done with something, the farmers will buy them.  It gives them something with a lot of life left in the vehicle with plenty of suspension and power to put them to work for a whole lot less than buying a new truck.  If the fire departments weren't selling off their old stuff cheap, the farmers wouldn't be buying them.

 

I am known for showing fire trucks in AACA.  Yes I'm in the fire service, but bear in mind that I got into the fire trucks because they were cheap.  There isn't a single fire truck in my collection that I ever paid more than $5,000 for.  I might've put more money into them once I got them, but there are a lot of people out there who have paid a whole lot more for a vehicle and then restored it.

 

 

[STEVE POLLARD]

7 hours ago, Century Eight said:

I have lived in Delaware since ‘86, and the climate is much nicer to cars.

Yeah Phil, I remember people complaining to GM about those brake lines .... Delaware is on our list of locations to retire to in a few years !

 

Steve

[STEVE POLLARD]

5 hours ago, ex98thdrill said:

I've towed with a 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and a one ton and at this point I will never buy another truck that is less than a 3/4 to

ex98thdrill - great information that you have listed, I appreciate it! I love the picture you posted of the Fire Apparatus.... I'm a ex-Fire Chief here in NY,( I served back in the 1980's and 1990's ) and your correct about the retired brush trucks. Our department retired a 1972 3/4 ton Ford with a utility body back in the late 90's I believe, that truck had under 10,000 miles on her... I still see it around today, the man that purchase it has welding tanks set up in the bed.

 

I would like to see more pictures of your Fire Apparatus !

 

Steve

 

** My company vehicle back in the 90's......

 

 

 

[Century Eight]

Steve, there is a good amount of old car activity in Delaware and also Maryland’s eastern shore, all of which we call Delmarva.  We could use more pre-war cars, but that is true everywhere.  We have several independent clubs and three AACA chapters.  Come on down!

[STEVE POLLARD]

15 minutes ago, Century Eight said:

Steve, there is a good amount of old car activity in Delaware and also Maryland’s eastern shore, all of which we call Delmarva

Thanks Phil, that's good to know ! I'm figuring three more years, but who knows, could be sooner.... plus it's closer to Hershey compared to where we are now.

 

Steve

[RustyTinman]

Bought my 2nd diesal 21 ram 3500 dually 2 years ago $85k best bang for the buck 241000 .17mpg.pulling my 28ft enclosed .I did just replace exhaust filter 2yr warranty unlimited miles. Best truck for pulling.

[Avanti Bill]

8 hours ago, RustyTinman said:

Bought my 2nd diesal 21 ram 3500 dually 2 years ago $85k best bang for the buck 241000 .17mpg.pulling my 28ft enclosed .I did just replace exhaust filter 2yr warranty unlimited miles. Best truck for pulling.

You are getting a lot better mileage than I am with my 2019 Ram 2500.  The very best I have seen is around 13 MPG loaded but would bet the average is around 12 MPG.

[RustyTinman]

First 100000 miles I was between 14 and 17 .Depending on the weather .Then it dropped down to about 12 to 14 and the last 50000 mpg was worse .I drive most of the time with the cruise which helps. Winter though it stinks. I also had a transmission failure a while back .I took it to Firepunk out of London ohio. That is when my pulling power &mileage really improved.They have a utube video to show how they improved it.

Edited July 31, 2023 by RustyTinman
WORDING (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

I have two vehicles I tow with, a VW Touareg diesel and a 3/4-ton Silverado with a big-block and an Allison transmission. I'd guess the VW is more in line with what you can expect from from a midsized truck. Most of my towing is a single axle trailer rated at 3,500lbs. The biggest problem is I occasionally forgetting the trailer is there. It's that good. When I need to move a bigger car, I have an enclosed trailer with two 5200lbs axles. I've towed this with both vehicles and the Touareg actually handles it better under normal conditions. It's rated at tow 7,716lbs, but I doubt I've ever been over 6,000lbs. That said, I only use the Touareg with the big trailer under optimal conditions, like no wind, short trips, no major elevation changes and weight under 6,000lbs. That's the criteria I'd use to decide if the Colorado is right for you.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by CarNucopia (see edit history)

[ex98thdrill]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:53 AM, STEVE POLLARD said:

ex98thdrill - great information that you have listed, I appreciate it! I love the picture you posted of the Fire Apparatus.... I'm a ex-Fire Chief here in NY,( I served back in the 1980's and 1990's ) and your correct about the retired brush trucks. Our department retired a 1972 3/4 ton Ford with a utility body back in the late 90's I believe, that truck had under 10,000 miles on her... I still see it around today, the man that purchase it has welding tanks set up in the bed.

 

I would like to see more pictures of your Fire Apparatus !

 

Steve

 

** My company vehicle back in the 90's......

 

 

 

I'd love to have that Blazer.  Years ago I used to work on an ALS Fly car that was an '86 Chevy Silverado K5 Blazer.  It was a light powder blue metallic with a Smith & Wesson lightbar.  That was a gorgous truck back then.

 

It's gotten to the point to where you just don't see the old school SUV's anymore.  I had my Bronco entered for the meet in Hamilton and the guy who was supposed to take it down for me, had a family emergency so the truck didn't make it.  At one time I had thought of turning the truck into a Fire Chief's vehicle, but decided to leave it the way it is.  I still have the lightbar for it, but I think it looks better as a plain old Bronco.

 

[ex98thdrill]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:53 AM, STEVE POLLARD said:

I would like to see more pictures of your Fire Apparatus !

 

Steve

Here's the '41 & '42 Ford / American LaFrance pumpers.

[ex98thdrill]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:53 AM, STEVE POLLARD said:

I would like to see more pictures of your Fire Apparatus !

 

Steve

Here's my two LaFrance ladder trucks

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by ex98thdrill (see edit history)

[ex98thdrill]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:53 AM, STEVE POLLARD said:

I would like to see more pictures of your Fire Apparatus !

 

Steve

 

Here's the Young pumper and the hauler

[rhettblake33]

Ford F-150 is a full-size pickup truck that comes in a variety of configurations, including a four-wheel drive model with a high towing capacity. The F-150 can tow up to 14,000 pounds when properly equipped.

Ram 1500 is another full-size pickup truck that is known for its towing capabilities. The Ram 1500 can tow up to 12,750 pounds when properly equipped.

[RustyTinman]

However the Ford 350 or Danali can't compare to the Ram 3500 .

[R Walling]

 It's not about how much weight that you can tow, But about how much weight you can stop!  😟

[STEVE POLLARD]

On 7/31/2023 at 9:40 PM, ex98thdrill said:

Here's the '41 & '42 Ford / American LaFrance pumpers.

Ex98thdrill - absolutely beautiful fire apparatus that you have ! The American LaFrance brings back memories of the 1948 engine that our company once had... It was originally out of Long Island, NY and donated to our Fire Company when we established back in 1969.... here is a photo:

 

 

[Marty Roth]

From just before age 5, I grew up hanging onto a 700 series closed cab American LaFrance pumper

[Larry Schramm]

I have been towing with a 2008 Silverado 1500 with the towing package, etc... for the last decade, but decided to upgrade my tow vehicle this year to a 2024 Silverado 2500 High Country Duramax diesel.  What a machine.  Has a tow capability of 18,500 lbs. and like others have said with this size vehicle, you must remember that you are towing a trailer behind you because it tows so effortlessly.  This is my tow vehicle. 

 

This vehicle made me a believer that you want to tow with more truck than you think you will ever need.  Don't have marginal towing capability.

 

I still have a 1500 GMC for my work truck/ grocery getter.

Edited January 1 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Just finished a 1600-mile trip towing my wife's '93 Allante' in a 24-foot enclosed trailer with my 2001 8.1L Suburban.  Smooth sailing with no issues.  The more I drive this truck the more I like it.  As Larry said, you know you have the right truck when your wife has to ask whether the trailer is still connected! 

[STEVE POLLARD]

So I started to look at preowned (GMC / Chevrolet ) I'm not too familiar with the Duramax Diesel, question for the GM owners, was there a certain year that I should stand clear of ? A lot of these Diesel's that are for sale have over 100k miles on them - well most of them do. What's the life span of a Diesel before a overall is needed ? 

 

I've never own a diesel, just drove some fire apparatus while in the fire service....

 

here is an example.... 2005 Chevrolet Silverado 2500LS, 123K miles on her.......... asking $25K

 

 

Thanks !

[EmTee]

Here's what Bill had to say about this on another thread (https://forums.aaca.org/topic/402854-suburban-34-ton-81-tow-vehicles/#comment-2616496)

 

...I pick my specific years ('02 & '03) because they are the last years before any pollution equipment was added ('04 started EGR) Also my years had the stronger pistons. People that can't do the work themselves on a diesel will shy away from my years , because they had internal injectors & it cost a bunch if you take it to a dealer to have them replaced. Same with the injector pump. If you routinely talk to your mechanic, you may suggest he install a Fass Fuel System on his truck. It is a "Push Pump" with extra filtration where as the factory pump in the engine is a pull pump. The Fass pump keeps 10-15 LBS of fuel pressure on the factory pump at all times removing any chance of air getting to the injectors. With injector pressures above 25,000 lbs at the tip, air acts like a sand blaster eroding the tip & causing injectors to have to be replaced much sooner. My LB7 version of a Duramax from the factory would need a set of injectors between 60 & 70K miles, since I put the Fass system on I get over 200k miles before I need to replace the injectors. I have only replaced the factory injector pump once on each truck, for my version it is "only" $935.00 & my injectors are about $12-1500.00 per set.  I decided long ago that I won't own one that needs DEF.

 

  Keep your Suburban going as long as you can...They are only getting more complicated & more expensive every year! LOL  

 

God Bless

Bill

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/nationwide-single-car-transport-hauling-open-or-enclosed.614419/

[STEVE POLLARD]

23 hours ago, EmTee said:

Here's what Bill had to say about this on another thread (https://forums.aaca.org/topic/402854-suburban-34-ton-81-tow-vehicles/#comment-2616496)

Thanks !

[TAKerry]

Steve what are you buying the truck for? For towing then I would think about a diesel. For driving around I think a diesel is overkill. Overall a diesel will last longer than a gas engine ( I think) but for the me the extra cost initially and the premium for diesel fuel is not worth it. If you are serious about buying one, find a local shop that works on them and ask their opinion, again find someone you can trust. I have heard a lot good about the duramax  trucks. Bill and I go rounds because he knows Im a ford guy, LOL. But same thing, there are some ford diesels that you want to run away from. IMO the best diesel motors are cummins, maybe next to CAT. The big problem with a cummins though is that they come with a dodge truck!

[CarNucopia]

23 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

IMO the best diesel motors are cummins, maybe next to CAT. The big problem with a cummins though is that they come with a dodge truck!

I'd be careful buying a Cummins engine build from 2013 onward. They just settled a lawsuit with the EPA over defeat devices similar to what VW used. In addition to a $2B fine, they need to update effected vehicles. I owned an "updated" VW TDI and the reliability was awful due to the update. Common wisdom is the engines were never endurance tested with the new parameters and components fail as a result. While that may not be the case with Cummins, I wouldn't risk it. Or, I would make certain anything I buy is not impacted by this issue.

Edited January 15 by CarNucopia (see edit history)

[RustyTinman]

My 21 Ram 6.7 Cummins 280000 and runs better then new .Just keep it maintained.Pulling 94 percent a 28ft car transporter.

[RustyTinman]

[STEVE POLLARD]

8 hours ago, TAKerry said:

Steve what are you buying the truck for? For towing then I would think about a diesel. For driving around I think a diesel is overkill

Hey Kerry - It would be towing for the cars that I have ( Monte Carlo / Impalas ). For local driving, I have a Honda that I use. We'll see what happens, a friend wants my old pickup truck, so if that sells, I'll have a good amount to put down on a nice pre-own 3/4 ton truck.

 

Steve

[EmTee]

46 minutes ago, STEVE POLLARD said:

It would be towing for the cars that I have ( Monte Carlo / Impalas ).

Do you already have the trailer, or know what you are going to buy...?

[STEVE POLLARD]

14 minutes ago, EmTee said:

Do you already have the trailer, or know what you are going to buy...?

EmTee, I don't have a trailer....but once ( I hope ) I get a truck, I'll start looking into a trailer... I'm kinda leaning towards a enclosed trailer, only reason is that I had a bad experience about 10 years ago. I rented a U-haul trailer to take my 14 year restoration project that was just painted up to the Hemmings Motor News Concours show in Stratton Mountain, Vermont. Long story short, someone with a wedding band or something on their hand, went down the driver's side of my '69 Impala and over the trunk lid as well. If the car was in a enclosed trailer, it would of been safe.... I packed up the family and left ( I was devastated, could not understand why someone would do such a thing ) 

 

Steve

 

Here is a picture at a rest stop on the New York State Thruway... my 2007 GMC Savana passenger van

 

[Barney Eaton]

Think about finding a used vehicle that has lived in the south.    No salt on the roads so no rust issues (stay away from southern coastal areas) 

even with mileage,  at least you can get the parts off to replace them without fighting rusted bolts. 

Here are a couple of examples.....  a row of surplus state trooper Tahoes  all have over 100K and sell for $10-$13K

Neighbor has 1998 Tahoe 2dr all wheel drive with towing package...leather seats need work, engine and transmission have 

been rebuilt,  shows 171K 

Edited January 16 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)