For Sale: 1950 Desoto Deluxe 4dr Sedan, 55K miles - $6,500 - Baldwin Place, NY - Not Mine - Still Available, Price Reduced to $5,500: 1-2-2023

[58L-Y8]

For Sale: 1950 Desoto Deluxe 4dr Sedan, 55K miles - $6,500 - Baldwin Place, NY - Still Available, Price Reduced to $5,500: 1-2-2023: See New Link Below.

1950 Desoto 4 DR Deluxe - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle... (craigslist.org)
Seller's Description:

1950 Desoto Deluxe 4dr Sedan. 6 cyl.  Tip Toe transmission, Redone interior & brakes. 6-volt electrical system positive ground. Speedo says 55k. Asking $6,500.00
Contact: Angelo (914) four-4-7-4-8-seventeen

Copy and paste in your email: 2c94441a42e5356cbbb0bd53bcfa8558@sale.craigslist.org

I have no personal interest or stake in the eventual sale of this 1950 Desoto Deluxe 4dr Sedan.

Edited January 3, 2023 by 58L-Y8
Still Available, Price Reduced to $5,500: 1-2-2023, Crossed out the dead CL link. (see edit history)

[Fossil]

3 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

1950 Desoto Deluxe 4dr Sedan. 6 cyl.  Tip Toe transmission, 

Haven't heard the phase "tip toe transmission" for a long time and can't recall what it is. Fluid drive?

Been watching for a car like this for a long time. Chrysler or DeSoto but they never show up locally.  The older I get the more appealing they seem to be. 

 

 

 

 

[neil morse]

57 minutes ago, Fossil said:

Haven't heard the phase "tip toe transmission" for a long time and can't recall what it is. Fluid drive?

 

Chrysler's terminology for this "semi-automatic" transmission was very confusing.  A lot of people refer to it as "Fluid Drive," but the fluid coupling was just a part of it.  (Also, the "Fluid Drive" coupling was also available on many models with a standard three-speed, which makes the nomenclature even more confusing.)

 

Here's a summary from Wikipedia, which I think sums it up pretty well.

 

The M6 Presto-Matic was a Chrysler Corporation semi-automatic transmission produced from 1946–1953. It was a special manual transmission with a fluid coupling. Although it had just two forward gears, an electric overdrive unit was attached and useful in either gear for a total of four forward speeds.

 

The driver would use the clutch pedal any time when selecting low, high, or reverse gear. Once underway, the accelerator could be eased and the car would engage the overdrive. With the Fluid Drive coupling, the car could be brought to a halt in gear without releasing the clutch and would creep like an automatic.

 

The Presto-Matic name was only used on Chrysler-brand cars. DeSoto called the transmission the Tip-Toe Shift, while Dodge used Gyro-Matic, Fluid-Matic, Fluidtorque, or Gyro-Torque. Chrysler and DeSoto sold the unit from 1946–1953, while Dodge did not introduce it until 1948. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presto-Matic

[Rivguy]

Ritchie's Dad has been looking for his car.

[Fossil]

1 hour ago, neil morse said:

Chrysler's terminology for this "semi-automatic" transmission was very confusing.  A lot of people refer to it as "Fluid Drive,"

Thanks for making the post. Really never could figure out how they could have made it anymore confusing. 

[neil morse]

12 hours ago, Fossil said:

Thanks for making the post. Really never could figure out how they could have made it anymore confusing. 

Actually, it's one of those things that's very confusing to explain but quite convenient to use (as long as you're not concerned about acceleration).  It also, in my experience, was trouble-free.  The idea was to leave it in "high range" at all times for normal driving.  This meant that you were starting from a stop in "third" gear, and at about 25 mph or so, you would lift your foot off the gas and wait for a slight "clunk" when the overdrive would shift it into "fourth" gear.  At the next light, you just applied the brake without having to use the "Safety Clutch," and then start up again the same way.  The overdrive would also "kick down" if you floored the gas.  So it pretty much behaved like a fully-automatic two-speed most of the time.  I had a '48 Chrysler Windsor back in the 80's and never had any problems with it.  The only time I would use "low" range was for a steep hill from a standing start.

[Marty Roth]

Reasonable priced driver quality car,

especially for someone hoping to get into the hobby at a modest initial investment

[D2R]

16 hours ago, neil morse said:

Here's a summary from Wikipedia, which I think sums it up pretty well.

 

Unfortunately, this Wikipedia explanation is inaccurate to the point of being erroneous, and only makes things more confusing than they should be.

 

Most importantly, there is no overdrive unit in the M6 transmission. It doesn't have an overdrive gear either - top gear is direct drive.

This transmission was effectively a combination of a fluid coupling and two individual two-speed gear boxes in one casing. Both had low gear and direct drive (again: no overdrive).

 

The forward gearbox received torque directly from the fluid coupling and was automatically controlled by a hydro-electric system. That's what made that "clunk" sound when it shifted from low gear to direct drive.

The rear one received torque from the first one, either directly via the latter's output shaft, or by means of gears, and was manually controlled; it was used to shift between Power and Drive ranges.

 

 

Together, these two gear boxes functioned kinda like one weirdo four-speed 'box:

 

First gear was achieved by shifting both gearboxes into Low gear;

Second: rear box in Low, forward one in Direct drive;

Third: rear box in Direct drive, forward one in Low;

Forth: both gear boxes are in Direct drive - hence the transmission as a whole is in Direct drive.

 

You can use the pictures from the official service manual to visualize all this.

Notice that in first and third gears torque is transmitted from the forward gearbox to the rear one via two pairs of gears.

In second and forth gears, torque is transmitted directly, the forward gearbox is effectively locked, and the free wheeling gear rotates freely on the intermediate shaft.

 

BTW, this guy explains all this better than me; if you want to understand in-depth how this transmission actually functions - watch his video:

 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by D2R (see edit history)

[StillOutThere]

No page more thorough than AllPar on the transmission subject:

https://www.allpar.com/threads/chrysler-dodge-jeep-etc-transmissions.230027/#post-1085224125

 

 

Early Chrysler automatic transmissions
 

• TorqueFlite (3 speeds)
• Front wheel drive A-413 (TorqueFlite based)
• A-500 and A-518: TorqueFlite with electric overdrive
• M6 and M4 (semi-automatics)
• Fluid Drive (torque converter)
• Hy-Drive (semi-automatic)
• Powerflite (2 speeds, fully automatic)

[Fossil]

I'm familiar with how they work it was more the issue of all the names used over the years and if they all operated in the same fashion. In the cars interior picture taken from the front passengers side the shift lever is clearly visible. What got me was the fact that there is not any sign of a gear indicator on the steering column like I'm used to seeing. Looks more like the standard 3 on the tree setup. 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Fossil (see edit history)

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

Absolutely love the “Fluid Drive” in my ‘48 New Yorker……….

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

@Fossil This one is still available in my neighborhood………

[Fossil]

Jeff will you PPLLEEAASSEE quit it. 

[neil morse]

3 hours ago, D2R said:

Unfortunately, this Wikipedia explanation is inaccurate to the point of being erroneous, and only makes things more confusing than they should be.

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I did not catch the misuse of the term "overdrive" in the Wiki explanation, which otherwise seemed pretty accurate from a driver's perspective.

[neil morse]

1 hour ago, Fossil said:

What got me was the fact that there is not any sign of a gear indicator on the steering column like I'm used to seeing. Looks more like the standard 3 on the tree setup. 

Welcome to the confusing world of "so-called" Fluid Drive (actually the M6 semi-automatic transmission, as we have learned).  There is no indicator on the steering column, just the shift lever with a modified "H" pattern.  Imagine a standard stick shift, but with only neutral, reverse, second, and third.  What would normally be second gear is "Low" range.  What would normally be third gear is "High" range.  Reverse is in the normal position.  The "Safety Clutch" (as marked on the pedal pad) has to be used to shift from any of these positions, but you don't need to use the clutch or go to neutral to come to a full stop.

 

I'm sure it was the marketing department that came up with the idea of having "Safety Clutch" embossed on the clutch pedal pad.  This enabled them to try to turn a negative into a positive (and plant the suggestion that there was something unsafe about Hydramatic).  The sales literature proudly claimed that the Chrysler "Presto-Matic" was "the only semi-automatic transmission equipped with a 'Safety Clutch.'"

[neil morse]

1 hour ago, StillOutThere said:

No page more thorough than AllPar on the transmission subject:

Except that those links unfortunately don't work.

[StillOutThere]

1 hour ago, neil morse said:

Except that those links unfortunately don't work.

I see now its not working, not even for members.  Unfortunate.  I had used it multiple times in the past.

 

[neil morse]

3 hours ago, StillOutThere said:

I see now its not working, not even for members.  Unfortunate.  I had used it multiple times in the past.

 

Yes, it's unfortunate since I was very curious to read what they had to say.

[StillOutThere]

https://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Presto-Matic

 

[Joe Cocuzza]

On 11/27/2022 at 12:56 AM, Rivguy said:

Ritchie's Dad has been looking for his car.

Well he can keep on looking cause this ain't it......

Richie's dad had a 1946-1948 DeSoto Suburban Sedan - a 9 passenger.

I had 2 of them years ago - a 1947 & a 1949 - wish I still had them.......

[DrumBob]

I have talked to the owner of this '50 DeSoto. Last weekend he supposedly had a guy coming up from Maryland to buy it, but that apparently fizzled out. He texted me that the car was still available. I haven't called him back yet. He assured me the car could be driven from his location in upstate NY back to my home in NJ. He's negotiable. I'm pretty sure this would be a good starter car for me, but I'm on the fence about it. I still don't think I quite comprehend Fluid Drive yet.

[avgwarhawk]

15 minutes ago, DrumBob said:

I have talked to the owner of this '50 DeSoto. Last weekend he supposedly had a guy coming up from Maryland to buy it, but that apparently fizzled out. He texted me that the car was still available. I haven't called him back yet. He assured me the car could be driven from his location in upstate NY back to my home in NJ. He's negotiable. I'm pretty sure this would be a good starter car for me, but I'm on the fence about it. I still don't think I quite comprehend Fluid Drive yet.

I could not comprehend a Buick Dynaflow until I drive one. There is no mystery to Fluid Drive.  I hope you go look at it and bring it home. 

[JACK M]

14 hours ago, DrumBob said:

I still don't think I quite comprehend Fluid Drive yet.

Nothing difficult about it, one drive and it will be second nature.

[58L-Y8]

Still Available, Price Reduced to $5,500: 1-2-2023

1950 Desoto 4 DR Deluxe - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle... (craigslist.org)

Contact: Angelo (914) four-4-7-4-8-seventeen

Copy and paste in your email: 2aec4c4d20b53a0aa57c955937dd0ea3@sale.craigslist.org

 

Scream deal alert!!!

[Brooklyn Beer]

Fluid drive with the M6 semi auro right ?   Easy peasy driving.   You can't stall it.  Fluid drive epuipped trans are not made to be slipped.  You just put it in the range you want, foot on the brake, and dump the clutch.  In high range (3rd position for the three on the tree) get it up to 16-20 mph, let off the gas till you hear/feel the clunk and you just shifted. Now your good for high speed.  It will kick down automatically coming to a stop.  No need to use the clutch (fluid drive) just hit the brakes.  Repeat the up shift.  On a hill?  Use low range (2nd gear spot normally) and do the same. get up to 20 then press in the clutch and drop into high range (3rd gear spot) and have fun.   I very rarely use the low range on my 1950 Chrysler and only the high range

Edited January 9, 2023 by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history)

[DrumBob]

Yes, it's still for sale. I'm thinking about it seriously. I went to look at a Frazer for sale locally a few weeks ago, but passed on it, because it needed too much work.