425 hardware kit

[Deanoko]

I placed an order with bodyboltkits for an indented hex head stainless engine hang on bolt washer set for my 64.  They pretty quickly cancelled it due to backorder with no estimate of being able to produce any.

I was looking through the latest Riview 38-4 on page 26 and found a link for MMS & ACC under the title "nailhead kits" but for me it's a dead link.

Anyone got any ideas for a decent source for correct  bolts?  Also looking for the place selling exhaust manifold bolts that was avy enough to want to know how many of what length the customer wanted before wasting everyone's time.  A steer toward them would be appreciated.  I don't want studs.  I want hex head bolts like I've got

[steelman]

Gardner-Westcott was always the go-to for us. I looked this morning, and all they carry is Buick V6 stuff in any kits. If you knew exactly what you needed, you can buy these individually, but nothing from them in kit form. On line catalog is in pdf. The little Buick they have is on page 20. So, not as much help as I thought I could be here.

https://www.gardner-westcott.com/

[Deanoko]

That is helpful.  I guess I will be measuring depths and logging accordingly. 

[telriv]

Just go to any GOOD hardware store & pickup what you need.

Just my thoughts.

 

Tom T.

[Deanoko]

Yes, I may just do that, but wanted them to be as "correct" as I could get them.  Most, if not all, will be painted. 

[EmTee]

I'm confused (again) -- what bolts are you looking for?  Body-to-frame mounting bolts, nailhead engine bolts, or something else...?

[Deanoko]

I just got my KW long block back from it's rebuild.  I'm looking at bolts for:

Water pump

Timing chain cover

coolant crossover

thermostat housing 

Intake manifold 

Lifter valley cover 

Oil pan 

Oil pump 

Oil filter mount,

Exhaust manifold bolts 

Fuel pump 

Starter 

Carb mount 

And Im sure Ive missed some.

 

I'm going to be selling the, running great, 65 L code 401 complete, so can't rob Peter to pay Paul . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EmTee]

Many can probably be sourced from a hardware store or local fastener specialty store (e.g., Fastenal).  If you need any specialty fasteners you could look here: https://arpcatalog.com/144/

[60FlatTop]

Be careful about hardware store bolts for automotive use. The increments of length may not be the same. There are blind hole and through hole threaded applications.

 

Some bolts may be close but bottom out. Some threaded through holes may meet an obstruction on the same plane. after passing through the block.

 

In one instance I got in a freshly rebuilt engine with a stripped head bolt. The manifold was bolted on with hardware store bolts about 3/16's longer than factory. The extra length pressed against a head bolt on the same plane but at 90 degrees at a through hole. After assembly and in the car the power steering pump bracket was installed by removing the head bolt. The pressure of the over long manifold bolt dug into the thread on removal and installation stripping both the bolt and the block. I had to Heli-coil the block.

 

If you own a '59 Caddy convertible with one bolt and one stud on the power steering bracket you probably own the car I fixed.

 

Where ever you source your bolts use a caliper tee bar to verify the depth of your bolt hole against the length of the bolt, even a kit could have had assumptions made.

 

Usually you are safe but when that one time comes around it will bite you.

[Deanoko]

All good info, thanks!  I have used a depth gauge and plunged holes. 

This is exactly why I was looking to source s kit from a reputable source, 

Plenty of chances to screw up an otherwise awesome build! 

[XframeFX]

On 7/27/2022 at 7:19 PM, EmTee said:

I'm confused (again) -- what bolts are you looking for?  Body-to-frame mounting bolts, nailhead engine bolts, or something else...?

The start of this post threw me for a loop as well. Looking for engine bolts from a Vendor named "Bodyboltkit" of which I've never heard of before. But I am familiar with ARP.

A quick Google:

https://www.bodyboltkit.com/

 

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[Deanoko]

Well, they had to name their company something.  Most likely they started out doing body bolt kits and expanded to engines.  I'm not going to hold it against them.  I just wish they'd get their act together and start producing again.

The info should fall into the "well now you know" category. 

 

[lrlforfun]

Dean: If having the correct bolts is that critical you may consider sourcing a klunked out 401/425. They are usually pretty cheap and you'll have almost everything you'll need.   Mitch

[Deanoko]

Last night I did another on line search and this came up.  Ordered it.  Looks to be everything I was after.

[RivNut]

If you’re doing head bolts, do not forget the four of the longer bolts need studs on top of the hex and at least one of the long bolts needs to be 1/4” longer than the others.

[Deanoko]

Yes, those were set up correctly before I got the long block back.  Thanks. 

[Riv Eng]

Deanoko, can you let me know if the bolt kit works out? I have my '64 425 going to the machine shop next week for the complete makeover. I'll be rebuilding it later this summer and I'm looking for a reliable bolt kit. Thnx 

[Deanoko]

Sure.  Follow this thread and I will post my findings here. 

[telriv]

Don't forget to use anti-seize. Preferably copper.

 

Tom T.

[Deanoko]

Noted.  Thanks. 

[Paul K.]

Reading this thread, a question comes to mind.  For Concours judging, are correct engine bolts necessary to avoid point deductions?

I've had a few of my non Buick cars Concours judged but my Buick is my long time "driver" (40+ years) so I don't really care about perfection. When I rebuilt my engine, I installed new and correct length/grade bolts but generic ones.   

The bolts pictured in the kit look like generic hardware store bolts and don't have what I call a "flat washer head" like the factory provided. Its been a while but I remember Nailhead engine parts fastened with these type of bolts are the valve covers, timing cover and water pump, intake and exhaust manifolds and possibly other parts.  Probably overthinking this but have always been curious from a judging perspective if bolt heads are noticed.  

[Deanoko]

I have been a concours 'd elegance judge for about 10 years.  The only guys that get that anal about it are the NCRS guys who have a 215 page book depicting every last detail of their beloved Corvettes.  For our other teams, we are looking for obvious hardware store off the shelf items, as negatives but not specific bolt letter codes.  The fact that these will be painted with the engine will be helpful. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Deanoko
Typos (see edit history)

[Paul K.]

Thanks Deanko, good info. No offense to anyone but those Corvette guys! 🙂

[Deanoko]

I will probably source some washer base hex head style (?) bolts for the timing gear / water pump since they can be seen, but the rest I will live with. 

PS, the Corvette judging guys mostly know it's BS, but they've dug themselves into a hole.  There are date coded things and measurements of overspray on parts you just shake your head at. I've learned a lot of it, but still find it fascinating the level of detail to be strived for.  C2s (63-67) only

 for me. 

[Craig Balzer]

13 hours ago, Deanoko said:

the Corvette judging guys mostly know it's BS, but they've dug themselves into a hole.  There are date coded things and measurements of overspray on parts you just shake your head at. I've learned a lot of it, but still find it fascinating the level of detail to be strived for.

Don't know if this true or a wive's tale:

• Two Corvettes were absolutely tied at a major show -- both were near-prefect restorations.
• The judges just couldn't find a distinguishing feature to declare a winner.
• After a prolonged huddle, the judges decided to remove both gas caps, invert them, remove the rubber gasket on the underside and see which was cleaner.
• A winner was determined.

[Deanoko]

No, a wive's tale.  I asked my friend who has judged NCRS for 42 years and he said they would never do that.  They judge 4511 points for a perfect car, which equates (is converted to) a 100 point score.  There is a maximum of 20 points iff for dirt, which, if that's all they found wrong, would be a 99 point car.  He did say he has measured tire pressure in the spare, but only because the car is judged as being road worthy.  He only judges 63-67.  He said that in the later cars they plug in an OBD2 and read codes, which he thought was a bit much. 

[gungeey]

13 hours ago, Deanoko said:

No, a wive's tale.  I asked my friend who has judged NCRS for 42 years and he said they would never do that.  They judge 4511 points for a perfect car, which equates (is converted to) a 100 point score.  There is a maximum of 20 points iff for dirt, which, if that's all they found wrong, would be a 99 point car.  He did say he has measured tire pressure in the spare, but only because the car is judged as being road worthy.  He only judges 63-67.  He said that in the later cars they plug in an OBD2 and read codes, which he thought was a bit much. 

Sounds like your friend is reinforcing Craig's dirty gasket story, not negating it. 

Anyway, no Q-Tips to be found in my tool box. Count me out. 😆 

[Deanoko]

Well, when provided with the tale, he was adamant that they would never do such a thing.  I think the spare tire pressure check was a tie breaker.  One had 9psi and the other was to factory spec.  Ha!