Need someone to cast two robe rail brackets as well as two foot rest brackets for me? Lost wax casting?

[Durant Mike]

Anybody have any recomendations on who to contact that does the lost wax casting of parts. I have two robe rail brackets with one that needs a small repair to be cast as well as two foot rest brackets, one also needs a small piece repaired in the corner for me before casting.  Appreciate any help and leads.

[1939_Buick]

Photos and size would help.

For your Durant?

[Restorer32]

Lost wax provides great detail but can be expensive.  Most of the cost is in having the molds made.  Molds can cost several hundred $ per part but after the molds are made the castings are relatively inexpensive.  The molds can be reused dozens if not a hundred times.

[pmhowe]

I haven't done it yet, but I have read that it is relatively easy to make a mold for small parts like this using 3D printing techniques. It would probably be worth looking into the information on the net about this. The Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forum has a nice discussion. Here is a link:

https://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=159641.0

[Restorer32]

3D will make a copy of your pieces to use as patterns.  You already have your originals to use as patterns.  I suppose 3D could make negative molds to cast the wax but it would take considerable computer time to invent a program.  If you post pics I can tell you if they can be sand cast.

[Restorer32]

3D printing is a great technology but for many, if not most non plastic parts, there are less expensive ways to reproduce the parts you need.  I have yet to see an actual total price to scan, print and finish a specific auto part in metal. 

[Mark Shaw]

Mike,

    Your general location would help...

[Peter J.Heizmann]

It will also be your call as to what metal is required and what grade of the metal.

 

You cannot determine the metallurgical aspects by saying simply “plain ‘ole cast iron” then complain later that it failed in use.  The onus is on the customer to tell the foundry what is required.

 

 

[Gary_Ash]

While 3D scanning can create CAD models for many things, there is typically a lot of work to clean up the CAD model.  Scanning doesn't work too well when there are deep holes, especially small diameter ones.  But, on many parts, it's easy enough to just draw the part in 3D CAD using measurements from the original part.  For investment casting of a few parts, a 3D printer can turn out multiple copies at very low cost, e.g. a few cents to a few dollars in material, even on printers costing less than $200 (Creality Ender 3).  With investment casting, the 3D prints act like wax, don't need to have draft angles and re-entrant areas are OK.  Most art foundries can use the 3D prints to make silicon-bronze or brass parts.  Alternatively, places like i.materialise.com and Shapeways.com can print directly to metal (bronze-infused stainless steel), tumble polish the parts, and plate them in nickel or gold.  These parts are strong enough for the applications described by the OP.

 

Once a part is modeled in 3D CAD, it is also possible to "subtract" the part in one step from a block to get a negative mold.  The mold can then be used to make many wax replicas for volume investment casting.  However, the CAD model may need draft angles to get the wax copies out of the mold and re-entrant details can be difficult.  Normally, a foundry would make a silicone rubber mold from the pattern, can get around draft angles and some re-entrant areas this way, but you'll pay for the service.

 

As discussed in other Forum posts, the difficult part of the process is getting the CAD model created.  If you took mechanical drawing in high school, you can learn CAD on the computer to make your own models.  There is free software available and also relatively inexpensive commercial software like DesignCAD 3D Max at $229.  Your children/grandchildren can probably learn it instantly.

 

Here are some direct-to-metal examples with prices quoted.

Examples of direct-to-metal 3D printing, parts for tire air pump for 1917 car:  Small domes, 0.56" diameter x 1.31" long with 12 small holes, $22 each

in bronze-infused stainless steel, tumble polished.  Actuator arm for pump, 5" long x 1.43" wide x .5" thick, $88.50 tumble polished, add $12 for nickel plating.  

 

Band selector knob for 1941 Buick radio.  This is a 3D print in plastic, 1" x 1.3" x .5" high.  Quote for direct-to-metal was $32, polished and nickel plated. 

 

Fuel filler assembly for race car, about 4" diameter, 3D print on left, as-cast silicon-bronze parts by investment casting on right.  Cost about $250 for investment casting.

 

Fuel filler assembly polished and chrome plated.

[ryan95]

Gary, do you have a source you can share for the 3d metal printing? This could be very useful for a few small parts I need as well. Very cool.

[Gary_Ash]

As I mentioned in the first paragraph above, see Shapeways.com and i.materialise.com.

[1937hd45]

Philips head screws, stronger that slotted? 

[ryan95]

I should have read closer. Thanks Gary

[Gary_Ash]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

Philips head screws, stronger that slotted? 

No, just what was in the bins in the garage until I could order the 10-32 slotted fillister head ones from Restoration Supply Co.  But, OMG!  I forgot to change one!  😮

I did cheat and use stainless screws so they don't rust.  Phillips head screws didn't arrive in production cars until 1936, though patented in 1932.

 

[1937hd45]

Details like that make for a great looking INDY CAR!🙂

[trimacar]

Try Mystic In Boston, great work at reasonable prices when I worked with them a few years ago…

 

[Gary_Ash]

I think David means Mystic Valley Foundry in Somerville, MA.  See https://www.mysticvalleyfoundry.com/index.html

 

Looks like a place that can work with damaged or broken parts to cast new ones, willing to do one-off parts in aluminum or brass/bronze.  Foundries can usually fill in a missing section with wax, plastic wood, or Bondo and use it for sand casting.  Just be aware that parts cast that way will be 1.5-2% smaller than the originals due to casting shrinkage, not a problem for most decorative parts like robe rail or foot rest brackets.

[trimacar]

Yes that’s correct.  I have a daughter who lives in Somerville and stumbled across this foundry…

 

[Durant Mike]

Everyone thank you so much for your insight and thoughts.  I have seen the results of 3D printing as the Durant Continental motor had the distributor mounted to the back of the generator. This bracket that mounted the distributor was of the old pot metal and most cracked or broke. I contacted my source for those which was a club member and he said the set up on the computer would be very very expensive and I would have to make many to break even.  I will take pictures this afternoon and post them so you can see what pieces I want to have cast for my car.

[Durant Mike]

Here is the photos of the parts I need cast.  Two are the robe rail brackets with one small piece broken off the bottom area. The other is a foot rest bracket that also has a small piece broken off.

[Gary_Ash]

A good foundry can build up the broken areas with wax before making replicas.  They may fill in the other places with holes so you can drill new holes with the right spacing.  These don't look too difficult, but the robe rail bracket will take a bit of work due to its complex shape.  

[Durant Mike]

Thank you Gary for your input. I'll find someplace to make them for me.

[yachtflame]

On 3/31/2022 at 10:33 AM, Gary_Ash said:

casting

 

On 3/31/2022 at 5:24 PM, Gary_Ash said:

I think David means Mystic Valley Foundry in Somerville, MA.  See https://www.mysticvalleyfoundry.com/index.html

 

Looks like a place that can work with damaged or broken parts to cast new ones, willing to do one-off parts in aluminum or brass/bronze.  Foundries can usually fill in a missing section with wax, plastic wood, or Bondo and use it for sand casting.  Just be aware that parts cast that way will be 1.5-2% smaller than the originals due to casting shrinkage, not a problem for most decorative parts like robe rail or foot rest brackets.

Mystic Valley only does sand casting. He sends investment parts out to another foundry and tacks on a charge. Unfortunately from my 10 years of using him, he doesn’t send the waxes I’ve made out quickly and a couple times they’ve sat around for several weeks a bit to close to the furnace heat and have shifted shape resulting in parts that weren’t usable.
 There are a few other foundries that I use for casting the investment waxes that I pour. 
If you PM me, I might be able to help.

 

[Bill Boudway]

I've used a local shop that casts in non-ferrous:

Thompson Foundries

6236 County Line Road

Union Hill, NY 14563

(585) 265-1460

 

He's done parts for our Packard Twin Six.

 

[Bill Boudway]

Hi,

Correction to mailing address:

Ontario, NY 14519