Brtele Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Got new tires put on today and drive around the city for a good 30-45 minutes. Car ran pretty good, but all of a sudden the hot lamp came on and I quickly pulled over and opened the hood. Coolant started puking out the overflow tube. Stranded on the side of the road playing the waiting game - thank goodness it’s awesome weather and I’m3 minutes from home. i wonder what’s causing this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 16, 2022 Author Share Posted March 16, 2022 Barely got the car back to the driveway before the hot lamp came on again - didn’t puke. Fuel is pulsing out of the passenger side of the carb, but evaporating very quickly (from the extreme heat, but didn’t create a fireball thank God). With the engine off and still hot I can turn the fan very easily - would think the fan clutch would be engaged at this temp. But will read up on riviera fan clutch testing - on our bmw, we did it with a rolled up newspaper while the engine was running at temp. If you could stop the fan with the newspaper, the clutch is bad. Engine has plenty of oil. Heater valve has a very slow leak also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychostang Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 If radiator is hot, fan clutch shoujld be solid. Is this a thermostatic fan clutch? Is it clogged with gunk? Remember, with the downflow radiator the coolant level should be no more than 1/4" above the fins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Fan only comes into play when the car is moving less than 30 ~40 mph. What was speed when it overheated? Were you sitting in traffic? If so, the fan is a likely cause. If the car was at speed, check the thermostat (maybe do that anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 All on a 70 degree day. 1st Hot lamp indication: Had just finished sitting at a red light and went a 1/4 mile at 40mph before the light came on. Pulled over quickly and shut the car off, opened the hood and it puked out of the overflow. 2nd Hot lamp indication: Waited approximately 20 min after the initial shutdown and the hot lamp to go away. Started up the car and started driving home. I was careful to keep my foot out of the gas and coast as much as possible. I never had to stop the entire ride home averaging 35mph. Light came on about 1/4mi from the house and I threw the car in neutral, shut it down and coasted to my driveway. I really don't believe this is a fan clutch issue as I had decent airflow while driving. Regardless, I'll get it back up to operating temp and test that it's working properly. It could possibly be a thermostat, but it's been opening and allowing flow prior to yesterday and I believe it was working yesterday. But I might change it as it's not too difficult or expensive and I have no idea how old it is. I also have very, very slight leak at the thermostat housing. I could be wrong, but my gut is telling me the radiator has some blockage in it - maybe not though. Positive note, it happened close to home and is making me go through the coolant system to ensure I can safely travel farther from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, Brtele said: I could be wrong, but my gut is telling me the radiator has some blockage in it - maybe not though. Yes, that's what the symptoms sound like to me. I just went through this with my '38. Similar symptoms; I had removed my thermostat and still had issues (I subsequently tested the thermostat in a pot of water on the stove and verified it was good). You may want to attempt a radiator flow test like that shown in the link below. You should be able to rig something using hardware store items... https://www.caparadiator.com/video The video shows side-by-side flow test comparing my '38 Century radiator before and after core replacement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 As a FYI when you buy a new thermostat get the Safety Stat. When it fails, it fails open. More money, but how much does it cost to replace a cracked head, blown head gaskets. cracked block, etc. Just my thoughts. Tom T. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 47 minutes ago, telriv said: As a FYI when you buy a new thermostat get the Safety Stat. When it fails, it fails open. More money, but how much does it cost to replace a cracked head, blown head gaskets. cracked block, etc. Just my thoughts. Tom T. Thanks Tom. I've typically utilized Stant stats, but being new to the Buick world are there any stats I should steer clear of or definitely utilize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 No stats sold fail open like the Safety Stats. Small $$$ verse much larger $$$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 Motorad is the only company I could find that offers a Fail-Safe style thermostat. Please let me know if I'm overlooking a company called Safety Stat. This is what I found for a 65 Buick Riviera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Are you sure it isn't low on coolant? If the coolant gets low it will overheat and you pointed out that you had a small leak. Perhaps it leaked out enough to cause overheating. In my experience in the car repair business when a car comes in overheating it is low on coolant 95 per cent of the time......just wondering if you checked the level when cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 52 minutes ago, Seafoam65 said: Are you sure it isn't low on coolant? If the coolant gets low it will overheat and you pointed out that you had a small leak. Perhaps it leaked out enough to cause overheating. In my experience in the car repair business when a car comes in overheating it is low on coolant 95 per cent of the time......just wondering if you checked the level when cold. No, I don't believe it wasn't low on coolant, but actually had a little too much when I previously filled up the coolant. But I thought once the car was at temp/pressure it would puke out what it needed to in order to equalize. Once it cooled down in the driveway, I took a look and the top row was still covered with coolant. Separate note - All this has led me to thinking I'm going to install a temp sensor in the ash tray position. It would just make me feel better. Classic Instruments has some cool stuff I'm looking at/dreaming about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Brandon, That's the one. It's called a Safety Stat at NAPA. Same part number. Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Me thinks one of two things, bad t-stat or radiator is blocked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 What happens if you pull the thermostat and run the engine without it? That would be a quick first clue as to whether it's the thermostat or the radiator. Which hose, upper or lower, has the pressure build up in it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 Before tearing into the radiator and thermostat, I thought I should check into the heat riser valve. Looking at the valve, the counter weight is in the closed position. When I reached down the exhaust manifold and tried to turn the counter weight it wouldn’t budge. I sprayed it with some penetrating oil from both sides, wouldn’t budge - not even a little bit. Should the valve be able to freely move if you spin the counter weight? I’m thinking this might be why the intake was so hot and fuel boiling over. i would think the tstat would’ve reared it’s heard earlier - but not counting it out yet. Any advice is appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Just remove it & plug the holes & re-install. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jframe Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Had an exhaust shop weld mine into the open position. Don't know your location, but I'm in Northwest Alabama, and I've started it on 20 degree mornings, and my warm up process isn't bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) My plan is to pull the heat riser valve from the exhaust manifold and try and loosen up the operation to it functions per design. If I can't get this to happen without loosing my mind, I'll rip the guts out, fill holes and re-install. I do not plan on driving this car below 40 degree temps at all. But it does suck to just yank it out dang it - per my OCD, I'm torn. I'll always wonder if that heat riser valve would provide another 53hp when working as designed. Edited March 22, 2022 by Brtele (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 NO WAY. IF it's stuck closed YES. Just remove it & be done with it NEVER to have to worry about it again. I've had mine in-operational for over 50 years even BEFORE it wasn't a daily driver any longer with NO ill effects. Up until recently a V8 member had cast replacement eliminators which I don't believe he has any left from the 1st. batch. Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 I believe my '63 has the heat riser integrated into the manifold. It's not stuck and functions fine but its always closed even at op temps. Not sure of it's position while driving but it does open when revving the engine then immediately closes before returning to idle. Normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Just wire it open. I DOUBT you'll notice any adverse effects. Do it NOW BEFORE it gets stuck closed. Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 Good lord I can’t believe I got the bolts off the exhaust manifold. Question: Do I have to drop the exhaust from the rear of the car in order to remove the heat riser valve from between the exhaust pipe and manifold? I tried pulling the exhaust out of the way - nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 You probably need to disconnect the other side of the header pipe from its manifold. Then you should be able to pry the pipe away far enough to get the valve out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 23, 2022 Author Share Posted March 23, 2022 27 minutes ago, EmTee said: You probably need to disconnect the other side of the header pipe from its manifold. Then you should be able to pry the pipe away far enough to get the valve out. Man, I really don’t want to take off the driver’s side pipes. I was freaking out on those nuts trying to break loose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) IF you can get the two nuts off of the studs in the manifold you should be able to drop the exhaust pipe enough to get the heat riser valve off the manifold. It will have some exhaust corrosion build up on it but you should be able to work it loose. I cut the flap out with a sawzall. I could then use the tapered end of the saw blade to cut the shaft closer to the housing. I finished off by using a stone on the inside to smooth out the inside. My shaft was in the housing solidly enough that it worked as a plug. I mat still do a tack weld on it for security. To clean things up, I took the sawzall to the outside and cleaned it up to match the manifold. I can post some pictures of the ‘after’ if you’d be interested. Edited March 23, 2022 by RivNut (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 If your exhaust is like factory, there is no crossover pipe and no reason to loosen the other side at all. These are two independent systems, one each side, until you get to the muffler behind the rear axle. It should drop enough to remove the valve. If you reinstall the header pipe without the fitting, check clearance to be sure you can raise the header pipe without to binding on something else. Also, check the manifold studs for thread length and chase the threads before reinstalling. You may need a spacer between the manifold and nuts to tighten these if you remove it completely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 The valve is now used as a spacer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) Here’s what I started with. Here’s what I finished with the ones in each photo are separate ones. I’ve yet to get to the top one because it’s still operable. Ed Edited March 23, 2022 by RivNut (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 You guys were correct - separate pipes. I just needed to give the pipe a little “how’s your father” to get it decoupled from the header. Valve body dropped right out. it wasn’t frozen completely shut but at a 45ish degree. I went ahead and cut the valve out and will plug the holes up prior to reinstalling. I did have a gasket between the valve body and header. You guys/gals think it would overheat with the valve being halfway open? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 28 minutes ago, Brtele said: You guys were correct - separate pipes. I just needed to give the pipe a little “how’s your father” to get it decoupled from the header. Valve body dropped right out. it wasn’t frozen completely shut but at a 45ish degree. I went ahead and cut the valve out and will plug the holes up prior to reinstalling. I did have a gasket between the valve body and header. You guys/gals think it would overheat with the valve being halfway open? Now take your sawzall and grinder to it and clean it up. If you search for it, I posted the part number for the gasket you’ll want. How do you intend to plug the hole? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 hour ago, RivNut said: Now take your sawzall and grinder to it and clean it up. If you search for it, I posted the part number for the gasket you’ll want. How do you intend to plug the hole? Don’t quite know how I’m going to plug the hole just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I found the thread in which I posted the gasket part number. “ I found the gasket. 😁 Part #31534 is good at NAPA, Advance Auto, AutoZone, and O'Reilly's. (the only four that I Googled) From what I can tell it's a universal gasket. No name on the package but O'Reilly's shows it as a Nickson, Advance and Autozone show it as a Walker, NAPA shows it under their NAPA Line. The package just says "Exhaust System accessory" Made in India. “ Ed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 You asked if the valve in the current frozen position would overheat the engine. No it wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 Please don't flame me for asking this question - The hole I've created by removing the Heat Riser Valve: can I use JB Weld (Exhaust Temp Rated) to fill this hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Yes, but I don't really know how long it may last as I've never done it before myself. How about threading a bolt in the hole??? Drill & tap??? Then remove the excess??? Tom T. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Brtele said: Please don't flame me for asking this question - The hole I've created by removing the Heat Riser Valve: can I use JB Weld (Exhaust Temp Rated) to fill this hole? I think I would try to find a bolt that just fits the hole. Then use the JB Weld as the adhesive to keep it in place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 IF you can, tap the cast iron housing for a bolt. Screw in a bolt coated with lock-title or something to keep it from backing out. Then cut the head of the bolt off flush with the outside to create an aesthetically pleasing finish. If possible, go all the way through with the bolt and grind the end of it off flush with the inside of the housing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Find a machine screw that fits snug in the hole. Insert it so that the head is in the exhaust side. Cut the screw leaving about 1/8~3/16" sticking out. Put a piece of pipe or other 'anvil' against the head and peen the cut end of the screw to plug the hole and hold it in place (like a rivet). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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