Amelia Island?

[George K]

54 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Im a fan of William Shakespeare..........

 

 

”First thing......let’s kill all the lawyers!”

Bet you have or know one.

[Walt G]

On 3/7/2022 at 4:11 PM, alsancle said:

The Walker LeGrande is from the Wallis Bird estate auction circa 1962.

I was at that auction, went with my parents . The Tunick brothers were there Jacques and Dave making all kinds of distracting noise during the auction . Austin Clark showed up in a RR Ghost landaulet from the 1920s and bid on and bought the type 35 Bugatti race car  that Wallis Bird used at Roosevelt raceway in Garden City in 1937. The George Vanderbilt Cup races were held there at that track in 1937 ( later a harness racing horse track) I have a photo copy of the Bird auction catalog pages and prices the cars sold for. There were two really great low low mileage 1937-38 Buick sedans there that were used by the hired help on the Bird estate.

There were so many interesting cars parked in the field next to the Bird estate garages that were driven to the auction just for the heck of it, John Wemple of NJ drove over in his 1937 Packard 12 club sedan.

 In 1963 when I was 14 I bought my 1931 Plymouth model Pa sedan and have owned a car with running boards ever since.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Walt G (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Walt, It would be great to see photos of all the cars in that auction "Then & Today". I had the honor or removing the engine from the T Head Mercer Toy Tonneau years ago. The owner turned down the offer to have it converted into a Raceabout, and today it is the only one with that body style. 

[Walt G]

Miles Coverdale of Brookville , long island had the Mercer toy tonneau you speak of I believe. He and his wife Enid were good people, Miles loved Bugatti's and had about 4 or 5 of them including a factory team race car. I think the Bird estate  Duesenberg model J Beverly sedan is now in NJ. That Beverly is most likely the first one built.

I agree a decent story about the cars there then and now would be worthy of doing would take a bit of doing. The Tunick's I think bought the Isotta Fraschini typo 8 conv. A decade after that auction I was working for Austin Clark at his house in his library as he lived about a mile or so from the Bird estate.

[edinmass]

Walt......I was sitting in that Beverly a few weeks ago. 👍

[Walt G]

14 minutes ago, edinmass said:

..I was sitting in that Beverly a few weeks ago. 👍

When the Beverly was in the Bird garages it had the shift lever sawed off by vandals some time over the years, they wanted a souvenir.

I have to go look it up but I think that there was also a 1940 Buick station wagon in among the Bird estate cars , cars stayed well preserved due to the fact the garage complex was heated.  Why oh why do I remember all this "stuff" ?  ( yet I don't remember what medication I have to take every day to remain vertical. )

[edinmass]

Walt.....I can’t remember what I had for breakfast yesterday......but I remember the end play on my 36 Pierce 12 water pump that I set up in 1991...........

[alsancle]

10 hours ago, Walt G said:

When the Beverly was in the Bird garages it had the shift lever sawed off by vandals some time over the years, they wanted a souvenir.

I have to go look it up but I think that there was also a 1940 Buick station wagon in among the Bird estate cars , cars stayed well preserved due to the fact the garage complex was heated.  Why oh why do I remember all this "stuff" ?  ( yet I don't remember what medication I have to take every day to remain vertical. )

 

 

I've told this story before.   My dad,  Ted Billing and Tony Pascucci had a deal with the executor to buy all the cars prior to the auction as a package.   My dad was taking the SS,  Ted was taking the two Duesenbergs,   Tony was taking the Isotta and Hispano.     Naturally the Lawyers pushed for the auction to keep everybody out of trouble.

 

So,  everybody went with cash to the auction,  my dad had 5k,  Ted had 10k and I don't know how much Tony brought.    Dieter Holterbosch and the Tunick brothers bought everything.  There was no outbiding them.   My dad was underbidder on the SS,  Ted on the Duesenbergs,  but that didn't matter because a few dollars more would not have made a difference.

Edited March 9, 2022 by alsancle (see edit history)

[Walt G]

I remember that auction well despite being very very young  ( 12 years old) and kinda short to see over the crowd. Austin Clark wanted the type 35 Bugatti race car and when it went up for auction just put his hand up with the auction catalog in it and never put it down until he owned the car. I think he was standing in the rear compartment of the RR Ghost landaulet he owned ( rear section open !!) and drove over in so that he could be seen when he bid. Dieter Holderbosch wasn't a bad guy, I didn't get to know him well like I did Austin but we had a small car meet on his estate at least once and he was cordial but not overpowering/bragging about the cars he owned, just was a regular car guy among us at that gathering to share the cars we owned. Down to earth car guy - they way all of us should be.

To many stories to tell ( some only in person!) , loads of memories , just glad I was there..............now in retrospect I never ever expected to be sharing those memories with so many people as I am here, nor all the period historical information on other threads here or in the periodicals I write for.

[edinmass]

I remember going to auctions as a kid........back when fifty bucks in my pocket was just a dream. As time went on, and I had a few bucks and my new auction experience was.......I had just enough to open the bidding or make bid or two........and then get bowen out of the water. More time went on, and I could actually participate like a normal person..........so that as long as the car was "in the range" buying it was a possibility. Fast forward a decade........and I started working with collectors who could actually buy what they wanted...........and you could see the look in the other bidders eyes when I expressed in interest in a particular car..........some would ask if I was an actual bidder. Having gone head to head with guys who just hold up their hand, I learned a new technique.....bump the bid two or three increments early in the bidding, letting them know you're not going away.......and any bid they make will make them wright the check. I was a low bidder on a big brass car using this technique. When the high bidder couldn't pay the number.......they expected me to pay the next lowest bid...........NOPE.......I ended up paying the lowest bid after everyone dropped out except the dead beat. Auctions are funny........and you never know how things will work out....pay attention when bidding, in the event you get a call back. It happens more often than you think. 

[1937hd45]

Walt, Thank you and everyone else that adds  "I was There" memories to historic auctions and early car events. Sure makes me feel like I was there while looking at the old black & white photos of the events. I think there was a Type 43 Bugatti at the Bird auction, the engine was at Vintage for years and the car sat in Del's body shop on Long Island. Wish I had a camera, upstairs side by side were the first two Ferrari's ever built, Austin Clark owned one of them. 

[wayne sheldon]

5 hours ago, Walt G said:

To many stories to tell ( some only in person!) , loads of memories , just glad I was there..............now in retrospect I never ever expected to be sharing those memories with so many people as I am here, nor all the period historical information on other threads here or in the periodicals I write for.

 

And WE are very happy that you are here telling those stories!

Thank you.

[Walt G]

Bob & Wayne. Thank you. I was told point blank some years ago when I was saying in general conversation to someone that was all of this really necessary, and did it make for a good cure for insomnia. They told me " if you don't get it down it will be lost - those you heard it from mostly were  the original participants that experienced it are gone and there is no resource. "  Knowing were to look for information since I have fortunately had the opportunity to do so in some large collections  is another thing, so many small bits and pieces, especially periodicals specific to a topic, columns noting who in the car industry worked where or moved from one manufacturer to another all puts the pieces of the history puzzle together. There is no written course or plan on how to do this, a good memory helps. Where do you look for information - foreign magazines and literature of the era are on cars /vehicles built in that country - not necessarily so, the USA built vehicles had a huge presence in Europe, advertisements were taken, specific publications unique to a specific make were published and printed. European sales and promotional literature tell a huge story of what was going on .

Just so much to try to get together , it is like being an explorer of 20th century industrial history for both domestic as well as European activities.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Walt G
spelling typo (see edit history)

[car crazy]

2 hours ago, Walt G said:

Bob & Wayne. Thank you. I was told point blank some years ago when I was saying in general conversation to someone that was all of this really necessary, and did it make for a good cure for insomnia. They told me " if you don't get it down it will be lost - those you heard it from mostly were  the original participants that experienced it are gone and there is no resource. "  Knowing were to look for information since I have fortunately had the opportunity to do so in some large collections  is another thing, so many small bits and pieces, especially periodicals specific to a topic, columns noting who in the car industry worked where or moved from one manufacturer to another all puts the pieces of the history puzzle together. There is no written course or plan on how to do this, a good memory helps. Where do you look for information - foreign magazines and literature of the era are on cars /vehicles built in that country - not necessarily so, the USA built vehicles had a huge presence in Europe, advertisements were taken, specific publications unique to a specific make were published and printed. European sales and promotional literature tell a huge story of what was going on .

Just so much to try to get together , it is like being an explorer of 20th century industrial history for both domestic as well as European activities.

I'll add my sincere thanks as well, Walt...Thanks for sharing those vignettes, and hope we can hear a lot more of your memories. And thanks to Alsuncle, edinmass, and all who shared their Amelia photos and experiences.

Edited March 9, 2022 by car crazy (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

On 3/8/2022 at 1:38 PM, edinmass said:

Called the big guy and asked........215 invited, 211 on the field...........4 no show/problems.......PLUS the super cars and new cars stands............so it was about 250, the parking map showed 280 +/-............most of the adjustment was on the newer/race car stuff that I didn't get to walk by except about 30 percent of them.......There was much more "tent space" than ever before........some was VIP tents with great bars(so they tell me) and others were retail and lifestyle stands. Crowds seemed very large....maybe from less places to find shade or a quiet spot on the grass. From a spectator standpoint......which for me is very limited...........quality of cars was as good as it ever has been for CCCA stuff. Seemed light on early, brass, and nickel vehicles. Also maybe a bit less race cars and more of the 50',60's, and 70's special cars...............from showing a car standpoint........there were logistical hiccups .........nothing terrible, just stuff that gets under your skin. My biggest complaint.......The Ritz, which were terrible to deal with, and not worth 1/3 the cost.........I'm looking into a house rental on the beach.........with 7 bedrooms. It will still be half the price of the hotel...........more later.....

Gezz, With a deal like that I may need to Anti up a 1/7 share and kick some tires on some Dusey's with you next year Ed. Even a couch for half price would do. 🤪 Dandy Dave!

Edited March 10, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

On 3/3/2022 at 10:58 AM, alsancle said:

If this brings 20 K I will be shocked.

26K and change - if the car really did have over 100K miles it probably could still be made to run (excepting if aluminum head car and then ----- = problems), but near herculean effort to get it behave like it should (you can only do so much with just plain worn out parts - and amazing what is reproduced, though very expensive and ....) 

[John_Mereness]

On 3/7/2022 at 12:01 AM, 34LaSalleClubSedan said:

Very nice. Is this picture the D with a Packard Roadster Body????

Yes, when I first saw the car in Bill Bools garage as a pretty unrestored car it was tu-tone green  which is significant as car was known for being green (neither were this shade though)  - the body still had Packard script sill plates on it them. The restoration does the car justice. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:57 AM, Matt Harwood said:

 

In my opinion, this was the greatest car at the show. Probably the last remaining unrestored Duesenberg J, and it's a supercharged SJ. Yep, it's scruffy, the engine is the wrong color, and someone reupholstered the rumble seat with the wrong stuff, but who cares? What a car!

Agreed as to being a really interesting car (as it is) !!!

[John_Mereness]

On 3/6/2022 at 10:18 AM, alsancle said:

Coolest car here.

Pretty much as awesome a custom bodied sedan as they come (I would put it in a top 20 of american custom bodied sedans)

[edinmass]

On 3/12/2022 at 1:20 PM, John_Mereness said:

Pretty much as awesome a custom bodied sedan as they come (I would put it in a top 20 of american custom bodied sedans)

 

 

John....... We MUST talk.........top 20?

[alsancle]

Just now, edinmass said:

 

 

John....... We MUST talk.........top 20?

 

Absolutely!

[edinmass]

7 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Absolutely!

 

Both of you need your eyes checked......it's cool. Top 20............nope. 

[Walt G]

I can agree ( especially since it isn't painted a current color of day glow green with pink wheels) one of my absolute favorite sedans of the pre war 1925-35 era is the Duesenberg model J Beverly. That was branded in my memory from the first time I saw one when attending the Wallace Bird auction in 1962 in Oyster Bay, NY.

Another is the "Bo Jangles" Robinson sedan, and my friend Skip Tetz's Cadillac fastback late 1930s Cadillac.  Yes, I do own two open cars but really loved the sedans pre war because of the luxurious interiors . hummmm this sounds like it has me inspired to do a story on sedans . Now to find the time to do so.

[1937hd45]

I remember the 1960's when any sedan was a doner for a Roadster body, no matter how bad the Roadster body was. I've seen a lot of close coupled and five passenger sedans I wouldn't mind having, guess it is a getting older deal. 

 

Bob 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

I remember the 1960's when any sedan was a doner for a Roadster body, no matter how bad the Roadster body was. I've seen a lot of close coupled and five passenger sedans I wouldn't mind having, guess it is a getting older deal. 

 

Bob 

Yeah those big classic guys also have their share of "bitsas" as well.  Best deal of the whole shooting match at Amelia was the bitsa Model J.  👍

[John_Mereness]

On 3/14/2022 at 12:57 PM, alsancle said:

 

Absolutely!

Yep, top 20 !!!