Fr. Buick Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I agree, a sloppy job of touch-up by the previous owner. Green bracket, black pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 I guess anything's possible. The more important question is; is this pump running the way the average pump does? Obviously the pump puts out a constant flow and when the power assist is not needed, the flow is directed through the bypass valve. That is set to open at a certain pressure, and I wonder if the opening of the valve is whats causing the pulsing vibration? In the 56 manual it shows the fluid passage up to the point where the fluid enters the bypass chamber. Then I assume, based on the pictures, that the fluid re-enters the pump, not the reservoir. I am wondering if the pumps on other cars have this similar vibration and how strong it is. I can feel this by laying my hand on the pump and raising the idle to around 1500 RPM. In my case the vibration is fairly strong, but very short. Therefore, I assume that the vibration is the few tenths of a second just before the relief valve opens. In this pump, it comes and goes regularly, it's not steady. On the road, with this pump, I don't feel the vibration inside the car till I get to the 55-65 MPH range. Is anyone willing to check this symptom against your car? I hate to send a good working pump out to be rebuilt, just to have it perform the exact same way upon return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 The only time I can say I experienced any pulse or vibration was right after I installed it. The pump took a few days to properly purge all air from the system, even after a thorough bleed. Afterwards, I have had zero issue with it. Also, the bypass does send fluid back to the reservoir. Take a look at your old pump, the manifold has two openings - one for in and one for relief out. If you feel adventurous and decide to remove the manifold and reservoir, you can get a clean look at the pressure relief valve in the hole closest to the pressure out line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Thanks Benjamin. I might just take a shot at disassembling spare pump 1. When I look inside my reservoir, I only see one opening for fluid intake, and then the return line from the steering box. It would be interesting to see the innards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 I have Spare Pump 2 ( SP2) on the car now. Been driving the car a little each day to make the pump run and see if the vibration would work out of it. It seems better each day and I no longer feel the vibration in the steering wheel at idle. Twice I drove it with no vibration but other times it always has at least some. So I'm going to keep driving it for a while longer and see if it works itself out. Meanwhile, since Spare Pump 1 (SP1) seemed to run smoothest, I want to try it again. But first I need to determine if I have an internal issue causing the fluid to get whipped to a froth in a few seconds of running. When I had it on the car I could spin the shaft by hand with little to no resistance. But just a few seconds of run time and it was noisy as the fluid broke into a froth. I wondered if the vanes on the shaft were stuck, allowing the oil to flow backwards into the supply path and reservoir. And after studying the manual, I decided to give this pump one last try. I got a flare cap for the outlet and poured enough PB Blaster ( from a gallon can) into the pump to cover the inlet and outlet ports. It's been sitting since Tuesday. Today I was near it so I spun the shaft by hand, and it immediately built pressure. Now I wonder if the by-pass valve is stuck. So I'm going to let it continue to soak for another couple of days and then see if it's better. Just not completely sure how to flush the used PB Blaster out, but will probably just run a quart of PS Fluid through it. then give it another try on the car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Buick Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Froth comes from air in the system. The shop manual describes this. When refilling the pump, turn the wheel from stop to stop, and then top off the reservoir. No connection to the vibration issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 16, 2016 Author Share Posted November 16, 2016 I understand that theory, but it cannot explain away the continuous breakdown of the PS Fluid in SP1. I did follow the air purge procedure in the manual. SP1 broke into a froth in multiple 30 second run periods after the air purge. Meanwhile SP2 had a few air bubbles in the fluid after it's initial run, and has not broken into a froth since installation. So something else is going on. Since SP1 has held the pb blaster while soaking, I cannot believe the pump itself has any external air leaks. And I know lines were tight while it was on the car cause there were no oil spills on the valve cover or exhaust manifolds during it's attempts to run it in. Without disassembly I may never know what was happening internally. I can't disassemble till I source the gaskets. But shouldn't turning the pump shaft by hand, with the exit port capped, result in opening of the bypass circuit and return of the fluid to the reservoir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Buick Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Turning by hand won't do you anything. The pump needs some RPS to get working. Are you keeping the fluid level to spec? I don't want to insult, and only ask because for years of driving my '54s, if the fluid was only a little bit down, it would suck air and froth up. Good luck... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I've changed the pump on my '56 only a couple of times in 40 years, and I can only add a bit to this discussion. I agree that the air seems to be harder to get out of the system than the manual seems to indicate. My car is also out in storage, so I can't check it out right now. I have never noticed the kind of vibration you describe on mine, except when the pump went bad several years ago, otherwise it has always been smooth and quiet running. I don't have the experience in rebuilding these, wish I could help you more, John. Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 Thanks Keith and all. It has been predicted that winter in this area starts this coming Monday, so I'm not going to rush anything. I did have it out again today and it's good enough to drive as is. When the holidays are over I'll go back to doing something further. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 8 hours ago, Fr. Buick said: Are you keeping the fluid level to spec? Yes, the unit is topped a little above the line on the reservoir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 12 hours ago, JohnD1956 said: It has been predicted that winter in this area starts this coming Monday, That's the forecast for us on the North side of the border too. I'm going to try to get the '41 out for a nice cruise again too! Keith 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 Took a step to relieve my apprehension over driving the 56 long distances. I'll have to paint them as they are bare metal right now, and then I'm thinking of some new tires...wide whites...(gasp!) LOL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 1 hour ago, JohnD1956 said: Took a step to relieve my apprehension over driving the 56 long distances. I'll have to paint them as they are bare metal right now, and then I'm thinking of some new tires...wide whites...(gasp!) LOL Details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 You can get Les Schwab to powder coat the rims $25/ea. Just tell them you're buying tires later and then when you get them back, tell them you found some elsewhere... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 1 hour ago, old-tank said: Details? What he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 Stockton Wheels in CA. They sourced a set of centers, disassembled from the original rims and welded the centers into new safety rims which are also built for Disc Brakes, although I am not converting from the drum brakes. Have ordered 5 but only got 4 so far. They strip em and ship them bare metal. I took them to my service garage and opened the boxes right there where each rim was tested for balance and runout. Worst case wheel requires .05 to balance. Not the cheapest alternative, but safe rims are priceless to me. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted May 17, 2017 Author Share Posted May 17, 2017 After investigation of powder-coating I decided it was just too expensive. The pan hubcaps will just scratch it and in my area the price was $75. Per color, per wheel. Spray paints were only $25.00 for all the rims and since everything was blasted to begin with it made the choice real easy. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted May 17, 2017 Author Share Posted May 17, 2017 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Much easier to paint (spray) when the tires are off! (ask me how I know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Looking good! I wish I had done mine in red at the time of paint, but mine were originally black and not knowing any better at the time... Now get them mounted! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 Just finished changing the heater hoses and the heat control valve. Man, those spring clamps are annoying. Hope this brings the heater back from its lackluster performance. Since Feb the heater would get warm but not hot where-as up to Feb the heater worked excellent. I did back flush the heater core and got some rust out. But something else may be wrong unless its just the initial air bubble. I can hear the vacuum hiss when turning the system off. But need to check there is vacuum at the heater control valve. Since it just started to rain that will be on ttomorrow's agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Spring clamps: I took an old pair of pliers and ground a groove in the jaws creating an area so they would not slip off. That worked quite well when you could put them vertically over the two spring ends like on the rad hoses where you have access but.... Like the area on you heater hoses, you have to go at them sideways so.... cut a groove sideways on the jaws on the same pair and voila! Having said that, Need to get after my son and get them back since they have disappeared from my tool box..... kids! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 Might have to do that Dei. Turns out there is still something blocking the line. Will be back in there today to flush it again. Just hoping it's not the heater core itself that has to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 Went back to flushing the core today. There was still a bunch of debris that came out and it got quite messy. After getting drenched, and then some experimentation, I came up with a decent garden hose to heater hose connection, And after what seemed like 30- 45 minutes of constantly reversing the flush direction, I was finally getting great flow in both directions and no more silt and rust. Surely this would be the fix! But alas, no joy ( to coin Willie's phrase). Anyhow, let me cut this short. In the first place I knowingly bought the wrong water control valve. The parts place I went to did not have a listing for the 69 cars so I bought the oldest one they did list, the one for the 72. I did have a reason for going to that particular store, but that's not part of this story. Anyhow, turns out the difference between the two is humongous. In the '65-'70, vacuum is applied to the water control valve to open it for flow. In the '72, vacuum is applied to the valve to close it during AC use. So during use in the GS, the system closed the heater loop, instead of opening it, thus no heat. After reading both the 69 and 72 manuals I realized the mistake, and disconnecting the vacuum line resulted in the valve opening, and heat, lots and lots of heat! I did find the correct valve and can pick it up tomorrow. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 Had to back up a step today. The part from NAPA turned out to be some type of universal water valve, which might have worked, but was pretty ugly. Black plastic, with inlet and outlet at 90 degree angles to the main port. So having seen the valves in the CARS Inc. catalog, I called and bought the one listed. Hopefully it will get delivered this week sometime so I can get that car back to normal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 The water valve arrived yesterday and it took about 15 minutes to change it out today. Then during the test drive for the heater the radio crapped out on me. Sweet biscuits! Beginning to look like my lucky streak is coming to an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 Wow, Nothing new since Sept 2015! Almost two years! I like a car that just keeps going. As long as it stops when you want it to. Somewhere in Chicago I heard that awful brake screech once and then wondered if I had ever changed the brakes. I went back and found evidence that I got the car with 88K on it, and being around 104K now, thought , surely I changed the brakes. But further checking did not show any proof I ever bought the new brake pads for it, so I kept my mouth shut and avoided jamming on the brakes to the best of my ability. Today the Queen got a new set of discs!. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 Also in the past two weeks I finally fixed the area under the battery. The battery the car came with leaked from the positive terminal. I did neutralize the acid with a baking soda wash a few years ago but decided to paint it now. Luckily the sheet metal was not destroyed. And it went very easy to disassemble, re-treat, prep, and paint. Even got most of that green slime stain out of the overflow container. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 During the annual State inspection yesterday I had a chance to look over the underbody. It certainly appears this car still has its original exhaust system. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARY F Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 You mean you have to get your car state inspected? They even put it on a lift to inspect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 2 hours ago, GARY F said: You mean you have to get your car state inspected? They even put it on a lift to inspect? They have to pull at least one wheel to check brakes. 1996 and newer OBDII cars are plugged into a state-owned computer to verify there is no MIL and no active codes. Just another way that our state state government 'takes care' of us here in the Empire State (where 'empire' refers to the state bureaucracy)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 2 hours ago, EmTee said: They have to pull at least one wheel to check brakes. 1996 and newer OBDII cars are plugged into a state-owned computer to verify there is no MIL and no active codes. Just another way that our state state government 'takes care' of us here in the Empire State (where 'empire' refers to the state bureaucracy)... LOL. Actually, I don't even object to this. I look at this glass as half full, not half empty. I get to look over the underside of everything once a year at least, and look at the mechanicals and brakes myself. If something is wrong I want to fix it. I may not have show cars but I have equity in all my toys, and I drive em all. I don't want to damage them, or myself, by overlooking some safety items. It's not expensive for cars pre OBDII. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 The radio was fixed the next week after my last post, and it works better than ever. I took the car to the Yankee Chapter show this year and racked up a few hundred miles doing so. But it has sat since then till today. While doing a few errands I pulled into the last parking lot and the oil pressure light came on. I wiggled the wire connector and restarted the car and that seemed to fix it. Drove it home without any odd noises or problems. But after unloading the packages I went to put it away and the light came on again. No amount of wiggling helped this time. I did replace the sender unit years ago, and cannot remember if I replaced it again when I did the timing chain. So tomorrow I'm going to put my test gauge on it and see if it's the sender or if I have a real problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 If there's no 'ticking' lifters, I'm pretty sure you'll find the sending unit is at fault. This is an instance where having a mechanical oil pressure gauge comes in handy... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 Em Tee, That's what I'm thinking too. I have a plan for putting in some gauges eventually. Still gotta buy one more before starting my template. But it was too cold and damp today to screw around in the garage. Remnants of Hurricane Harvey in this area today. I don't know how there could have been so much water in those clouds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 My girlfriend had this same problem with her 2007 Pontiac G6. Turns out, there was a piece of some type of wax paper stuck over the end of the sensor and was causing it to malfunction. Could just be something in there that found it's way to the sensor, here's hoping its not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Discovered I did not have a bushing to convert the test oil pressure gauge to the port in the block. I'll try to get one tomorrow. Meanwhile I probed the port on the sender I took out and there did not seem to be anything inside of it, or the engine port either. I reinstalled it and started the car. The oil light went out, as it should. Ran it till I had heat out of the heater. And then let it sit while I cut some grass. After that the oil light would not go out again. But after two more start cycles the light was very inconsistent. So I put it away. I have a new switch on order and I'm certain that's all it is, but I will still run the test gauge just to be sure. Edited September 5, 2017 by JohnD1956 (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 Yesterday I sent the Super to the garage I use when I don't want to do the work. Had the temporary core plug replaced, along with the rear main seal, oil filter and the oil pan gasket. Today the bottom of the engine is dry for the first time since I can remember. I may have bought that rear main seal kit almost 15 years ago, and it is one of three I bought when I wanted to do the job and could not find the others. I'll probably choke when I see the bill tomorrow, but I am pretty happy about it all today. Yes, I know I should have done it myself. But I spent the money anyway. The nice thing is this garage guarantees their work and I know for a fact that they honor that warranty if needed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 On Tuesday I went to the store and got the converter bushing I needed to hook up the test oil pressure gauge. Threw everything into the repurposed jar I am using to hold everything associated with the OP gauge and came home. Then due to weather I had a window to put the gauge on today. After the basic set up, I was ready to connect the line to the new bushing but, lo- and behold, I could not find the connector that started this whole thing. It wasn't in the jar, and I searched the places I thought I would have left it. I even contacted the part store in case I left it on the counter but it wasn't to be found. My son said, " I think I handed that back to you when you were leaving". So I gave up and hooked up the new sender, figuring if get the light again then I'd have to go buy more fittings to get that gauge on there. When done, the rains came in again and I could only get a few minutes to test the car. So far the light works as designed and it is not on while idling. Then I discovered I threw the fitting into our loose change jar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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