Mounting tires

[jan arnett (2)]

On 3/29/2021 at 11:24 AM, F&J said:

You must look at the tire for wording as to if it is a tubeless or tube type tire.  That relates only to the tire itself.  If it's marked tube type, you must use a tube because the inner layer of rubber can allow air into the cords and cause a growing bubble.

 

If it is marked tubeless, then the tire is fully sealed.  Then put Flex Seal over the rim rivets after cleaning them good.

 

If the tire is not marked at all about tube vs tubeless, go back to the ad where you bought the tires before trying to go tubeless.

 

put up a pic of the outer rim so we can see if they are bead lock style.  Some here don't know what we are talking about:  A beadlock on a stamped steel car rim is just a shallow groove pressed into the rim, and it does 2 things: it keeps the tire bead from unseating if the tire was nearly flat, or went flat before you can stop the car. It also forces the bead to be perfectly centered on the rim hoop.

 

In rare cases, some defective repro tires don't center themselves perfectly on the rims without beadlocks.  Just look at both sides of the tire right at the rim edge to make sure they look centered after airing up.

 

On the older non-bead lock rims, these were used with tubes in most cases, but VW still had not added beadlocks to the early 60s bugs and some were tubeless tires. 

 

 BTW, a beadlock rim is the one that makes a very loud POP when finally getting the bead to seat with lots of pressure.  It often takes way more pressure to get them to finally seat, than what the tire pressure calls for.

 

 

You are missing the swear job and Band-Aids in your kit.

[alsancle]

I’m working my way through a set of 20 inch drop center wheels going from 10 year old Lester tires to fire stone black walls.  
 

The original tubes are waymaster In Canada. They are very very heavy duty. But they have a rubber stem.

 

The new tubes are from Blockley of England. They have the correct metal threaded stem and concave washer that fits in the rim perfectly. They are not as heavy as the old tubes. But seem to be of good quality. Also with a bit of air in the tube they are not as large.

 

Drop center wheels are supposed to be easier than snap ring but this one wheel was 90 minutes of work for three people not including the 15 minutes of prep beforehand.

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Those are Dunlop drop center rims.........easy as pie. Twenty minutes  per tire from removal to reinstall on the car......including a new tire and tube. It’s the first 5000 of them that slow you down. 

[Walt G]

I had the same situation 40 years ago when a friend who was a great mechanic and service writer for a local luxury car dealer want to install new tires on his 19 inch demountable wood wheels for his 1931 Franklin Airman. They use a lock ring. I lent him the tire irons I had and looking him straight in the eye said " Have you ever used these before on something like this" He said yeah sure, was going to work on his early Sunday morning to get all the old tires off so he could then restore the wheels.  At about 7:45 am that Sunday I got a phone call -' can you come over and help me - I am sitting here in the kitchen with a bag of ice on my lower lip to get the swelling down where the tire iron bounced up and got me "

He told me he had been working on the one tire over an hour just to get that far.

I told him not to move, don't go near the wheels and tires, and hastily dressed and went over to his house about 1/2 hour away. He looked pretty shaken up - I told him when he got to work the next day tell all who asked about his lip that it was his girlfriend who smacked him.  I had him sit in the shade in a chair and I went after the rest of the wheels. It took about 20 minutes each to get the others apart . Not lightweight work to do on a Sunday morning  but a great sense of accomplishment - told him when it was time to mount new tires after the wheels were painted to let me do it and he can help and that until then I was taking my tire irons home with me!

Edited October 3, 2021 by Walt G
word check (see edit history)

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

I had the same situation 40 years ago when a friend who was a great mechanic and service writer for a local luxury car dealer want to install new tires on his 19 inch demountable wood wheels for his 1931 Franklin Airman. They use a lock ring. I lent him the tire irons I had and looking him straight in the eye said " Have you ever used these before on something like this" He said yeah sure, was going to work on his early Sunday morning to get all the old tires off so he could then restore the wheels.  At about 7:45 am that Sunday I got a phone call -' can you come over and help me - I am sitting here in the kitchen with a bag of ice on my lower lip to get the swelling down where the tire iron bounced up and got me "

He told me he had been working on the one tire over an hour just to get that far.

I told him not to move, don't go near the wheels and tires, and hastily dressed and went over to his house about 1/2 hour away. He looked pretty shaken up - I told him when he got to work the next day tell all who asked about his lip that it was his girlfriend who smacked him.  I had him sit in the shade in a chair and I went after the rest of the wheels. It took about 20 minutes each to get the others apart . Not lightweight work to do on a Sunday morning  but a great sense of accomplishment - told him when it was time to mount new tires after the wheels were painted to let me do it and he can help and that until then I was taking my tire irons home with me!

 

40 years ago Walt is about the right age to be doing the work.   It took 3 of us because we didn't have enough hands to hold the tire and irons all at once as we worked our way around.  The problem was the new tires were stacked on each other at the factory so they are crushed tight.

[Walt G]

26 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

40 years ago Walt is about the right age to be doing the work.   It took 3 of us because we didn't have enough hands to hold the tire and irons all at once as we worked our way around.  The problem was the new tires were stacked on each other at the factory so they are crushed tight.

YIKES!!!!!   The fun of old cars, And all the people who look at us when we drive by and they think "they must be rich/wealthy because they own old cars - classics ! " The people thinking ,making those comments would not last 20 minutes cleaning the wire wheels on a 20 inch rim , nor be under a fender to wipe the muck off after a several hundred mile journey just to get to an event before it started.

Same goes with those of us that restore, or  have restored older residences or buildings, All the time it takes if you were paid for your efforts would be about 15 cents per hour. But we love it and what we are working on for the history, heritage , beauty, and wonder that something that can be 70+ years old can still survive and function as it did when new................

[alsancle]

Did another wheel today. 90 minutes and three people. This one felt harder than the last. You definitely need to use a lot of tire lube. And I think letting the old tires and the new ones sit in the hot sun could make life a lot easier.

Edited October 15, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Chrome wheels on a 1926 Ford T? Fancy! Tires aren’t getting harder to change, you are just getting old.

[Gary_Ash]

I've used Fred Belanger at Wheel Repair Service in Auburn, MA to mount and balance tires on my wire wheels with 18" drop-center rims. Fred is good, though he's not fast and not cheap, but where else will you find someone to take on ancient wheel designs?  What is the old saying?:  "The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten."  And, you don't have to spend your time and sweat to get the job done.  Fred says people ship wheels and tires to him from all over the country.  Fred is no spring chicken, what will we do when guys like this are no longer able to do the work?  He says he has a young guy learning the trade.

 

Fred Bellanger with four of my 18" wire wheels (Rudge 72 mm centers, 4" wide drop-center rims, 6.00-6.50/18 and 7.00/18 Stahl Sport tires with metal-stem tubes and rim bands).

  

[alsancle]

15 minutes ago, Gary_Ash said:

I've used Fred Belanger at Wheel Repair Service in Auburn, MA to mount and balance tires on my wire wheels with 18" drop-center rims. Fred is good, though he's not fast and not cheap, but where else will you find someone to take on ancient wheel designs?  What is the old saying?:  "The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten."  And, you don't have to spend your time and sweat to get the job done.  Fred says people ship wheels and tires to him from all over the country.  Fred is no spring chicken, what will we do when guys like this are no longer able to do the work?  He says he has a young guy learning the trade.

 

Fred Bellanger with four of my 18" wire wheels (Rudge 72 mm centers, 4" wide drop-center rims, 6.00-6.50/18 and 7.00/18 Stahl Sport tires with metal-stem tubes and rim bands).

  

Thanks!!! Considering that is a 15 minute ride why did I know know of this??  

[edinmass]

50 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Thanks!!! Considering that is a 15 minute ride why did I know know of this??  

 

If your gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough!

[Gary_Ash]

 

  A.J., since you are so close, take a ride to Fred's shop and have a look.  Call first to be sure he'll be there.  Tell him I said hello.

 

Here's the story in Hemmings from 2013 about Fred and his company:

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/wheel-repair-service-of-new-england

 

[alsancle]

A certain know it all on the forum called me an idiot last time I ordered six tubes for six wheels. This time I ordered eight tubes for six wheels. And what do you know, we had pinhole leaks on one of the tubes after we had mounted it.  You really need to blow the tubes up well in advance of using them to identify this issue ahead of time. But of course I forgot and got to do one wheel twice.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Was that a Blockley tube that was porous? Discouraging if so.

[edinmass]

15 minutes ago, alsancle said:

A certain know it all on the forum called me an idiot last time I ordered six tubes for six wheels. This time I ordered eight tubes for six wheels. And what do you know, we had pinhole leaks on one of the tubes after we had mounted it.  You really need to blow the tubes up well in advance of using them to identify this issue ahead of time. But of course I forgot and got to do one wheel twice.

 

 

 

A certain know it all?.............. nope, but having installed thousands of tubes in tires......yes, literally thousands..... been there, done that! And I have seen it all. Aren’t you glad I had you order extras? 😎

[alsancle]

19 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Was that a Blockley tube that was porous? Discouraging if so.

 

Yes.  The first 3 went fine.  The 4th not so much.  They are pin holes,  not a cut we made from mounting the tire, which was my first thought when the tire started leaking.

[edinmass]

Not to rain on your parade, but the odds are 99 percent that it’s a pinch. If you dry the tube side and take a close up, I can tell you if it was a contact issue...........😏

 

 

Location of leak is the clue that you caused it...........be sure to use the correct NOS air for the tube. Today’s modern air seems to escape easier then the stuff from the 1930’s. Since your an engineer........please explain tube air pressure and actual air pressure.

Edited November 5, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

16 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Not to rain on your parade, but the odds are 99 percent that it’s a pinch. If you dry the tube side and take a close up, I can tell you if it was a contact issue...........😏

 

 

Location of leak is the clue that you caused it...........be sure to use the correct NOS air for the tube. Today’s modern air seems to escape easier then the stuff from the 1930’s. Since your an engineer........please explain tube air pressure and actual air pressure.

 

I used a lot of powder.  It should have been slippery in there.  Is it possible to use too much?

[edinmass]

No, it’s not powder that caused it, and you can use too much. I never use powder. 

[alsancle]

14 hours ago, edinmass said:

Not to rain on your parade, but the odds are 99 percent that it’s a pinch. If you dry the tube side and take a close up, I can tell you if it was a contact issue...........😏

 

 

Location of leak is the clue that you caused it...........be sure to use the correct NOS air for the tube. Today’s modern air seems to escape easier then the stuff from the 1930’s. Since your an engineer........please explain tube air pressure and actual air pressure.

here you go

[edinmass]

That is a classic pinch from a tire iron..........100 percent your fault. That is why I say to buy 8 tubes for 6 tires........now if you don't ruin any more, you still have one spare tube for the shelf. 

[F&J]

15 minutes ago, edinmass said:

That is a classic pinch from a tire iron..

It does appear to be a pinch from an iron because there are 2 impressions in a direct line, facing the exact direction of where an iron would be doing the damage.  A pinch from a bar against the rim is always going to be pushing on a "fold", so 2 holes or 2 adjacent marks will be typical. 

 

 Also that exact area on the tube would line up with where the rim edge would be in relation to where the tire bead would be being worked with a bar. 

 

Over 50 years ago in a tire recap/tire sales shop, we had oblong patches that were used on 2 adjacent holes like that.

 

Spare tubes on a shelf.....  How do people keep them from dry cracking?  I have to wonder if putting them in a shop fridge would help.  I have been double bagging them in plastic bags on a shelf, but I doubt that will work for long term with the modern rubber.  This hobby can be full of minor minefields with the quality of some things.  

[bryankazmer]

cool, dark and dry inhibit most of the degradation reactions of rubber compounds.  keep away from exhaust gasses too.

[broker-len]

I got new tires and tubes from the place in Hershey-------------UNIVERSAL I think    19 inch   32 Plymouth     had them for 15 years  then mounted with new flaps  tires were good     three of the six stem cores were leaking    then after a several months I have a  flat in one