1931 Cadillac 355 Convertible

[1950panhead]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1931-Cadillac-355-Convertible-Coupe-by-Fleetwood/373142327690?hash=item56e104118a%3Ag%3ABf4AAOSwxHxfLwds&LH_ItemCondition=3000|1000|2500

 

 

[1950panhead]

[1950panhead]

[John_Mereness]

It's a nice car - notice that it has AACA and CCCA awards "to the max" (inc. AACA Senior & Grand National and CCCA Senior & Premier) - very few cars ever achieve this (it takes multiple years to win all these awards and you can count the number each year that achieve on the fingers of one of your hands).  

 

And it has a bunch of rare 31 Cadillac parts that tend to be missing on a huge number of cars (that is what it takes to restored one to high point level and win major awards). 

 

Enjoy "as is" or crossed my mind that the a certain shade of Maroon could be used on the wheels and pinstripe (next owner could put their signature mark on the car).

[alsancle]

John,  your points about the restoration are well taken,  but my Cadillac guys tell me the 32 is vastly superior to the 31 mechanically and this one has languished looking for a buyer at 80k.

 

 

[John_Mereness]

17 minutes ago, alsancle said:

John,  your points about the restoration are well taken,  but my Cadillac guys tell me the 32 is vastly superior to the 31 mechanically and this one has languished looking for a buyer at 80k.

 

 

A 32 is a redesigned car and in some ways better looking (it may be their best year in looks as far as that goes) and the real advantage with a 32 is that they used a mechanical fuel pump off the cam so you do not have to mess with a vacuum tank and shutting the fuel on and off at the fuel bowl.  They also created a lot of problems for themselves as 32 cars tended to rot badly (their first real year of dropping body down over frame).  

 

As to cars though - the 32 is nicely restored, but nowhere near the quality of restoration as the 31 in discussion (which far exceeds quality of the majority of 1931 V-8 cars for that matter). 

[Matt Harwood]

I always felt the '32 Cadillac's headlights were undersized and shaped incorrectly for the size of the car. They never quite look right to my eye. I think the '31 is a prettier car.

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

It's a nice car - notice that it has AACA and CCCA awards "to the max" (inc. AACA Senior & Grand National and CCCA Senior & Premier) - very few cars ever achieve this (it takes multiple years to win all these awards and you can count the number each year that achieve on the fingers of one of your hands).  

 

And it has a bunch of rare 31 Cadillac parts that tend to be missing on a huge number of cars (that is what it takes to restored one to high point level and win major awards). 

 

Enjoy "as is" or crossed my mind that the a certain shade of Maroon could be used on the wheels and pinstripe (next owner could put their signature mark on the car).

 

I know the car well.........there are only a few 1931 355A  Cadillacs that are really done right, and this one is one of the top two I have ever seen. And I have owned a dozen of them. It’s a great car.

[edinmass]

6 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

I always felt the '32 Cadillac's headlights were undersized and shaped incorrectly for the size of the car. They never quite look right to my eye. I think the '31 is a prettier car.

On the eight, I agree, the 12 is a coin toss.....the 16........I would take the 32, as it’s twenty times more rare.

[FLYER15015]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I always felt the '32 Cadillac's headlights were undersized and shaped incorrectly for the size of the car. They never quite look right to my eye. I think the '31 is a prettier car.

X2 on that.

The 32 looks like they stole the headlights off my Chrysler CG.

But then the '31 with such a short hood, looks kind of "model "A" ish"

 

 

Boy am I in trouble now..............

 

Mike in Colorado

[Cadillac Fan]

Looks great

Edited August 9, 2020 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[ericmac]

There are a lot of little details that really make this car stand out. I was studying the top and it really is a thing of beauty.  I agree with Ed though I defer to his expertise.  That said, I think someone really went "all in" on the restoration.  I'm betting the asking price is about 1/3 of their investment. 

[alsancle]

7 hours ago, ericmac said:

There are a lot of little details that really make this car stand out. I was studying the top and it really is a thing of beauty.  I agree with Ed though I defer to his expertise.  That said, I think someone really went "all in" on the restoration.  I'm betting the asking price is about 1/3 of their investment. 

 

My buddies and I keep saying we need to buy someone else's boondoggle where you are paying for 1/3 of the restoration and the car is free.   I've been on the other side of the equation and haven't pulled it off yet as the attraction to something that needs "only a bit" of work keeps screwing me up.

 

I know nothing about Caddys although my untrained eye prefers the 32 and I don't really like the tan/beige on the subject car.

[John_Mereness]

5 hours ago, alsancle said:

I don't really like the tan/beige on the subject car.

That is perhaps its fault - crossed my mind to do maroon wheels (and pinstripe) and a set of period correct tread pattern Firestones.   I also have metal spare tire covers on the brain on any early 30's car.   And, I would probably paint the bumper bars brown and also match the inside of the bumper (I would have to do my homework though on that one).   That said, I tend to be more lenient when you find a "major award winner" via hard to find this caliber of car in really any restoration (there just are not that many - CCCA primary cars I believe are still in the low 2000's in number and few of those ever win their Senior or a Premier (just as few AACA cars ever win their Senior and Grand National - usually takes an extraordinary car to begin with matched to an over the top restoration).   When you look at comparable cars that have come up over past 5 years and their cost (and problems) - price seems a good deal too. Sidenote:  It is a listing of Shawn's - I just like 31 Cadillac's via dad and I having had 7 over time.  

 

As to the 1932, it would not take too long to have a maroon (almost black) fenders on it and maroon wheels too (I would probably start with the wheels first) or maybe just paint the wheel rims and get a set of chrome wheel disks made for it.   I really do not like the exposed snaps on the top over doors or the strap on sidemount mirrors (they had an awesome mirror for 32) and it also needs a low profile trunk - nice trunk, but a little tall for my taste (sidenote:  I think this a medium sized trunk - better than a tall trunk for sure).  The missing heater will not be easy to find (but they are out there) and does need the wiper controls as seller notes.   And I would do a bunch of little projects (ex. dent in air cleaner needs repaired, horn button emblem needs restored, and ...), replace moth damaged carpets, and detailing.  Also a fine value as to a car and should have sold near immediately.  

 

Sidenote:  I have never bought a car in my life that I did not change it around to be "my way"/make it my own - sort of like my Airedale claiming every tree, shrub, post, and ... in the neighborhood. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

Trunk looks to be correct except for the missing emblem but I would paint it the original black. It would set the car off adding a new color but a very nice car as it is.

As for the red 32 take the trunk off that one as it looks too high. Looks higher then the deck lid. The 31 looks to be a nicer car to me. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

29 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said:

Trunk looks to be correct except for the missing emblem but I would paint it the original black. It would set the car off adding a new color but a very nice car as it is.

As for the red 32 take the trunk off that one as it looks too high. Looks higher then the deck lid. The 31 looks to be a nicer car to me. 

Metal Trunks and Metal Sidemount Covers were available painted colors. 

 

Per asterisk in Accessory Brochure for any metal trunk: *Cadillac Metal covered Trunks can be had in colors to match car --- extra  ......10.00

Painted metal sidemount covers 5.00 pair 

 

The 1931 does have an appropriate trunk which is commonly called a "low profile trunk" and in accessory brochure is described as for "For All-Weather Phaetons, Coupes, and open cars, the Cadillac-Fleetwood Metal-Covered Trunk is recommended ..." 

 

The 1932, has a 1932 appropriate trunk, but not preferable style appropriate with it being too tall verse the wanted "low profile trunk" (rare trunk nevertheless though).

[edinmass]

Definition - Trunk, a trunk is "a way to spend money making your fantastic car look like sxxt.

[Joe in Canada]

The Cadillac / LaSalle wood lined low boy trunk is 16 in. tall came on cars with a trunk or rumble seat. The taller one I believe is 19 in. more commonly came on sedan / phaeton tub style body. 

When you ordered a trunk from the dealer you had to specify paint color and  engine number.  But I still prefer black on a V8.

 

The 31 is still a very nice car and as per Eds comment about the trunk on it.

[John_Mereness]

21 hours ago, edinmass said:

Definition - Trunk, a trunk is "a way to spend money making your fantastic car look like sxxt.

A necessary evil as you also know very well that late 20's and early 30's cars have no to little storage space in them and as a result if you do not have a trunk you have all kinds of crap all over your floor - which then makes cars very impractical very quickly. 

 

Sidenote:  The money I have spent to restore trunks tends to be about 4K to .... (next time I am going to just have a cover made and let someone else have the restoration fun. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

When I restore a trunk I am careful to leave the nails in the aluminum corner trim when I take it all apart. When resembling it I put the nails back in the metal skins same holes they came out of so I know the lid will close properly. Like using the nails as dowel pins for accuracy. I use body panel glue to glue the metal skin together and the nails are then redundant. I cut the nails off after the glue has dried  allowing me to put the wood liner back in. I guess you can say I rebuild the trunk in reverse and a very simple and accurate process. 

Only cost is the chrome, SS screws, glue + paint. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[edinmass]

3 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

A necessary evil as you also know very well that late 20's and early 30's cars have no to little storage space in them and as a result if you do not have a trunk you have all kinds of crap all over your floor - which then makes cars very impractical very quickly. 

 

Sidenote:  The money I have spent to restore trunks tends to be about 4K to .... (next time I am going to just have a cover made and let someone else have the restoration fun. 

 

Properly sorted cars don’t need a trunk, tools and spares are NOT necessary if you car is right!  Just my two cents. 😎

[John_Mereness]

56 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

Properly sorted cars don’t need a trunk, tools and spares are NOT necessary if you car is right!  Just my two cents. 😎

I would still rather have the trunk than the pile of stuff people often have sitting behind their car out on a Concours field. 

 

[edinmass]

2 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

I would still rather have the trunk than the pile of stuff people often have sitting behind their car out on a Concours field. 

 

 

Obviously you haven’t seen whit I place behind our cars on the field! 😎

[Grimy]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Properly sorted cars don’t need a trunk, tools and spares are NOT necessary if you car is right!  Just my two cents.

You must travel solo, not with your lady....  🙂

[Joe in Canada]

No spare parts in the trunk??? Obviously some of the folk here have show field cars and are not on a week long tour in a  90 to 110 year old car. If any of my cars are down there is no point to drop in at Parts Man for my cars need.

I carry mainly electrical spares from starter to dis. cap. on a long tour and the heavy stuff stays in the truck. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

We do not trailer, so you are not going back to "the truck" (but then again that is what AAA is for and if needed it can go home on a flatbead - ie I am not bringing a spare car in the trunk with me regardless) - I was trying to think of what I have used in the past 10K miles with the Auburn - Usually a quart of oil after a couple 100 mile/couple hour drive seems the norm (the trip home from Auburn when the cracked head was a lot of oil and a lot of antifreeze) - (also, usually a gallon of antifreeze and also an extra Optima Battery and jumper cables), I broke a bolt in the starter bendix (I usually carry a complete extra Bendix), two flat tires (a really good scissors jack is nice to have), a couple things that needed a minor touch with a screwdriver or wrench (so generally have a toolbox), and I am sure I am missing something from this discussion. 

 

So, funny story - I cannot tell you how many people I know that have bought a matching X to mine as they have seen me out touring and my car has proven such a "reliable" car for touring - and had they asked I would have told them it was only as dependable as I was willing to put in the hours in the garage (which is the part they do not see) to get it that way and to keep it that way (and the sad thing is I can drive to those people's houses/garages and their cars are just sitting there as they do not have the same skill sets). 

[Matt Harwood]

20 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Properly sorted cars don’t need a trunk, tools and spares are NOT necessary if you car is right!  Just my two cents. 😎

 

I am of the opinion that whatever part or tool you bring, you will not need. So I choose judiciously. I have a neat folding tool kit that handles 95% of repairs and carrying a points/coil/spark plugs, water pump, fan belt, light bulbs, and some rags is no hardship.

 

Also, trunks are removable. I have one for my '29 which looks stupid as hell, but on tour it's useful for extra gear.

 

[FLYER15015]

Matt,

Can't you move the trunk, and maybe the rack a bit forward and level it up  ?

Even if it sits a bit higher and closer and was squared up, it would look more OEM.

 

Ours carries 2 lawn chairs, scissors jack, gallon of water, quart of oil, hand full of tools, spray wax, white wall cleaner and several towels.

Never thought about a starter, generator, water pump and points.

 

Mike in Colorado

[edinmass]

The car was done by a friend of mine, who has owned and restored countless Cadillacs. We both ordered new pistons from Egge at the same time. We both were restoring identical cars and they were only a few numbers apart. Unfortunately for me, I got my engine done first......and when started two of the pistons shattered...........bad casting that could next be detected by inspection. I had two failed in a matter of seconds. I called the owner of the above car, and reported my findings, and how to check for the problem. He had three bad pistons in his car. He disassembled it and went on his way with other new pistons. Being a poor kid at the time, Egge sent me two new ones. Nothing for labor, gaskets, or down time. That’s why I tell people to never use their stuff. I have seen it multiple times on pistons and valves from them, That was all more than 25 years ago........I’m still pissed off at them, and their products. I refuse to use them........since I didn’t start this post, I figured I would comment on it...............I have no idea on what they sell today, or if the back up their stuff......."but back then they made the pistons, knew they had a problem, and didn’t offer any help or seek out people who paid good money for junk.........so you decide. I can’t publish here what I really think of them...........

[Joe in Canada]

We hosted the Vintage Tour last Aug. and I brought everything from a floor jack to a torque wrench if there were problems. We had Hagerty as a sponsor giving full road side assistance plus a member with  flat bed trailer from NJ follow the tour for for the week. Our first day morning coffee stop we had 4 cars with minor issues fixed on the spot making me think it was going to be an interesting week. But we never had one car pull over needing a tow the full week. The oldest car with us was an 07 Durracq that ran flawless for the week.  A shot of the early Durracq on tour.  

[Matt Harwood]

18 hours ago, FLYER15015 said:

Matt,

Can't you move the trunk, and maybe the rack a bit forward and level it up  ?

Even if it sits a bit higher and closer and was squared up, it would look more OEM.

 

Ours carries 2 lawn chairs, scissors jack, gallon of water, quart of oil, hand full of tools, spray wax, white wall cleaner and several towels.

Never thought about a starter, generator, water pump and points.

 

Mike in Colorado

 

 

When I first got the car, I probably spent four or five weekends trying to make that trunk fit and look right. I tried changing the mounting hardware, I added shims to try to adjust the position of the rack, I even made some little adjustable posts that I bolted to the back of the bumper to help hold it up, and nothing I did made it any better. I could get it to sit level, but not any closer to the body, and it just looked wrong from any angle. Since the luggage rack was factory-installed, I don't think there's any way to adjust it or get it closer to the bodywork. The same 140-inch chassis (and I presume trunk rack) was used for the 7-passenger cars, which are about 8 inches longer behind the axle line, so I'm guessing that the trunk would fit closer to the back of a 7P car. There's actually a filler panel on my car to take up the area between the gas tank and the body that would not be present on a 7P car.

[Joe in Canada]

Mat have you ever thought of giving it the look of a 1930 5 passenger sedan with the trunk over the gas tank apron and then the rack is behind the trunk. There is a notch  in the trunk for the gas fill on the 30 .  Just a thought. 

[m-mman]

Matt's 1929 is a (full) 5 passenger sedan. Based on the length of the body there is little you can do about the trunk area. 

This is my 1929 Town Sedan (aka close coupled sedan - Packard called them Club Sedan)

The body is shorter. The back seat is closer to the front. (no foot rest) the trunk was standard which balances out the shorter body on the same chassis.

I assume that the trunk rack was standard, but I am not sure. 

 

The 1930 above is also a Town Sedan - shorter body than a 5 passenger sedan. 

[John_Mereness]

10 hours ago, edinmass said:

The car was done by a friend of mine, who has owned and restored countless Cadillacs. We both ordered new pistons from Egge at the same time. We both were restoring identical cars and they were only a few numbers apart. Unfortunately for me, I got my engine done first......and when started two of the pistons shattered...........bad casting that could next be detected by inspection. I had two failed in a matter of seconds. I called the owner of the above car, and reported my findings, and how to check for the problem. He had three bad pistons in his car. He disassembled it and went on his way with other new pistons. Being a poor kid at the time, Egge sent me two new ones. Nothing for labor, gaskets, or down time. That’s why I tell people to never use their stuff. I have seen it multiple times on pistons and valves from them, That was all more than 25 years ago........I’m still pissed off at them, and their products. I refuse to use them........since I didn’t start this post, I figured I would comment on it...............I have no idea on what they sell today, or if the back up their stuff......."but back then they made the pistons, knew they had a problem, and didn’t offer any help or seek out people who paid good money for junk.........so you decide. I can’t publish here what I really think of them...........

We have been using https://ariaspistons.com/ Arias pistons in Auburn's - as you are far from the only story and a little bad work at that time or any time really no matter how limited goes for years down the road to damage a reputation. 

[FLYER15015]

Matt,

You give me a couple of sticks of 1x1x1/8 angle iron and let me borrow your MIG, and I'll have a custom trunk rack for you in an afternoon.

Make it sit up straight and tight like the one in Joe's picture.

THEN, you can "bungee" your folding chairs on the OEM rack out back, Beverly Hillbilly's style.

 

Mike in Colorado

Edited August 18, 2020 by FLYER15015 (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

8 hours ago, Joe in Canada said:

 The oldest car with us was an 07 Durracq that ran flawless for the week.  A shot of the early Durracq on tour.  

The French were way ahead of the curve on engineering in car design during this period. 

[John_Mereness]

On 8/13/2020 at 11:56 AM, Matt Harwood said:

 

Let's discuss the spiffy optional Budd brand Disk Wheels - Nice look on this Matt !!!

[idrjoe_sandiego]

Back to the $125K Cadillac that started this discussion... Isn't that the same vehicle which recently sold at Amelia Island for $84K?

$41K for a quick-flip! (or Needless Markup). Such a gorgeous car!!

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/am20/amelia-island/lots/r0042-1931-cadillac-v-8-convertible-coupe-by-fleetwood/841086#

Edited August 22, 2020 by idrjoe_sandiego
link (see edit history)

[edinmass]

84K for that car is insane.....but the market today is a bit twisted. The color while factory correct and matching the build sheet, is uninspired. Someone got a fantastic buy. 

[idrjoe_sandiego]

Edinmass- Agreed! Not a big fan of that color scheme either, but I think one could learn to live with it considering the outstanding detail and condition.