Restoration = Likes & Dislikes

[Ron Green]

With winter setting in for many of us and new or old projects getting started or just getting around to long overdue repairs I thought I would start a new thread directly related to working hands on with your vehicle.

I hate prepping floor pans, frames, etc for new paint. I am in the middle of a miserable project that needs to be almost all done by hand. Not to fond of engine work either.

I like doing the electrical work and bolting the trim pieces back on.

[Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL)]

I'm more the "bull in a china shop" type. I have thoroughly enjoyed doing the heavy mechanical work and the frame restoration, but the body work.... I am just no good at body work. There are those who can bump, pick and file a panel and no one will ever know it had a dent. As hard as I try, I'm still a "rough 'em out and smooth 'em over" body man. I just strive for minimizing the amount of smoothing over. I'd much rather do mechanical work.

[Guest]

Bodywork--------I LOVE IT, nothing is more enjoyable than transforming a piece of junk into a show piece! Better yet start with a flat sheet of aluminum and make a new component, the old fashoned way, without an English wheel. What I HATE, is any electrical work!!!!!! Two wires are one too many! I've lost track of the cars I've sold before the risk of wireing them only to see them burst into flame. Those that understand electricity are gifted at birth, it can't be picked up after the fact.

[Guest]

Post deleted by 58rebelsport

[Guest]

Funny.....each of us thinks the particuar era we like best...is the best. We have a guy here who thinks '50's cars are built well... Heck..I am absolutely CONVINCED 50's cars are trash...and '30's cars are the cat's meow....and....you know the rest...I've got buddies who are "into" 1920's cars...and think my '38 Packard V-12 is mickey mouse....but...not to worry...the guys with the cars from the teens....they wouldn't give a 1920's era car garage-space...!...and...you know the rest..my "brass era" buddies with those big monsters from the 1905-10 era...they think those "teens" cars are way too tinny for their tastes........yeah....such is life !

P.S......I was delivering a load of heavy equipment yesterday, got off the road to cool my brakes, stopped into a MacDonalds...and...yup...had a "Classic Coke" to wash down my Kentucky Fried "Classic" Chicken....! ( it was great ! )

Pete Hartmann

Big Springs AZ

[Bill Stoneberg]

So Peter,

What is it about you "Classic Cars" do you like ? Do you enjoy rebuilding them or just driving them ? Do you like to turn a wrench or hold the paint gun ? We know your opinions, how about likes or dislikes (as related to this thread, no Brittney, please).

I like to do the mechanical work myself. I have tried body and paint and either dont have the touch or the patience. Give me a wrench and a hammer and I am a happy man. I have learned to like to Powdercoat things, that is fun.

[Guest]

That comment about '50's cars being trash was a bit out of place, disagreement is fine, criticism is counterproductive and we certainly don't need to engender any more enmity, do we? My Grandfather gave me some sterling advice before his death which we would do well to emulate"keep your eyes and ears open and your goddam mouth shut!"

[29 Chandler]

Winter is not quite here in Southen California, more like Fall. I'm working from the ground up. Just finished restoring the wheels and brakes on the left side of the car. Sure has been fun learning how they built cars in the 1920's. Got her down on all four wheels and rolled her out of the garage for the first time in a long time, turned her around and wheeled her back in the garage to get at the right side wheels and brakes.

Just came home from the store and saw a real nice 1929 Ford Model A. A real bute. I could not help taking his route on my way back home. Quite a view from my '02 Honda Insight.

Can't wait to get my 1929 Chandler on the road and give some one else the same pleasure I had following the A.

As for Peter Hartmann, do you think if we ignore him he'll go away. I am really against attacking another DFer, but in this case Pete you really need to learn to keep your fingers off your keyboard untill you can learn some manners.

Now lets keep to the subject, CARS.

[Guest brh]

Hate body work I can't straighten or paint to save my life! I am going to be doing the frame and engine detailing over the winter. Give me a carb to rebuild, engine to work on I'm a happy camper.

[rocketraider]

I like electrical troubleshooting and repair, and engine, trunk and interior detailing. I especially like cleaning grunge off wiring so it looks new again ! I have neither talent nor patience for body work, and I don't like scraping crud off the underside.

As some of you may have gathered, I also like researching factory literature to make sure what I'm doing is accurate.

I even like scrounging junkyards for treasure . I used to like the "thrill of the hunt" digging up NOS treasure in swap meets, but as it's gotten scarcer and more expensive, I find meself sitting on me ever-spreading arse doing it on e-bay .

[Guest Skyking]

First off, Peter, you are a piece of work!

As for me, I just bought my Metropolitan back after selling it 12 years ago. The guy did absolutely nothing to it all the years he had it. I look forward to pulling the motor out to replace the clutch and detail the compartment. I also do all my own body work & paint. My last project was my Skylark convertible. At least the Met is a smaller car than the Buick. After I strip it and do all the body work it will be much easier to paint, considering it is two solid colors. The Buick was metallic. I also like doing mechanical work. The Mets brake system is somewhat challenging because the Girling system wasn't the best.

So needless to say I'll be in the garage again this winter working on another project......

And Peter, 50's cars are fun to work on.....

[1937hd45]

I see a trend starting! Body work vs. Electrical ability. Put me in the BODY WORK section! Can anyone do both?

[Guest Skyking]

I'm sure if someone can do body work, they sure can do electrical work. It's no mystery..........

[1937hd45]

NO WAY!!!!!!!!! I worked for 14 years doing restoration body fabrication & restoration. Couldn't wire a thing if my life depended on it. Been there, tried that, fried it every time.

[Guest Skyking]

That's interesting........I've done both, always thought wiring was somewhat easier...

[Guest Randy Berger]

58rebelsport, if the only things your old girl friends could pop up was goosebumps, you were dating the wrong girls.

I'll try anything but bodywork - I've seen how it should be done and like golf, it takes constant practice. Nuts and bolts or electrical work is easy for me, but it better be - I have a 56 Packard.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest]

I will weigh in saying every part of the restoration process is fun for me - including paint and electrical. I will say that the old adage - "When you have the time you don't have the money and when you have the money you don't have the time" holds true right now. If I had heavy body work to do - I would now pay to have it done. Thank God I am done with that part of the project. Came out great but being an amature probably saved myself 50 cents an hour for how long it took me!

[ex98thdrill]

My dad and I have done full restoration on a 29 and a 37. Right now we're (my dad is until I get out of the sand in 11 MORE WEEKS!! to help him) currently doing a '40 Plymouth and a '78 Ford. Of everything we've done, we've hated the '78. I don't think we'll ever do another full restoration on another one. Before I left, we'd work all weekend on the '78, be so irate before the end of the weekend that we'd roll the car back off to the side of the shop and let it sit for a month and go back and work on the '40. That '78 was painted 4 years ago and we just haven't had the tolerence to dedicate ourselves to it like we have the older iron. I think by the time the '78 is done, we'll have at least finished two possibly three other vehicles before we're done with it.

[Guest]

Bill: Your question about why I personally am most interested in the classics ( big luxury cars of the mid 1920's to start of World War Two) could take me a day to answer, probably bore most everyone to sleep and get into areas of psychology I am not competent to discuss. I suspect a part of it was raw envy; even in the 1940's, as a little kid in a middle income family, I remember how much more magnificent the "big" Packards were, then our very nice but quite ordinary Packard eight cyliner car ( "120" series), and how I wished ours had that "arrogant elegance" of the upper classes.

I remember coming across the desert as World War Two was winding down - the national speed limit ( to save tires, not gas..we had plenty of gas...but rubber was in short supply) was 35 mph. And it was brutally and rigidly enforced. Our very nice but very ordinary "junior" series Packard was purring along - then...suddenly... there was a high pitched scream (which I now know is the sound the radiator shutters of the big Packards make when the car is really rolling..!...) then a "thunk" as the air whoshed by....and even as a child, I recognized the hulk and trunk rack of a "senior" Packard as it blasted by, probably going MORE than twice our speed.

I remember asking my dad..."pop...how can he DO that"...? And he responded with a tone of awe in his voice.." that....son....was a Packard Twelve". That tone in his voice "said it all"....! So perhaps it was raw envy that first stirred my interest in the big classics of that era.

Now....here's a whopper of a tale for you. Flash foward in time..about thirty years later...bunch of my buddies and I are getting more than a bit "plastered"...discussing old cars. One asked me.."did you ever wonder what happened to that big Packard Twelve that drove you GREEN with envy so many years ago" ? ( I should explain I tell that story about the long ago show-off speeding by us....as a possible reason why I still get excited about big-engined classics)....anyway, of course I told him there was no way to know what happened to that car...so many years ago.

"WRONG"...my buddy said...think....WHO could have broken that federal speed limit in those days...only a high ranking govt. officer on official business.

That is when I put "two and two" together...and decided to do some back-ground checking...after all..it had always puzzled me why my particular Packard Twelve has a SECOND license plate "standard" on the RIGHT side of the car....I finally made the connection...realized....that car...that VERY car...is PROBABLY the one sitting in my garage ! There werent that many '38 Packard Twelve formal sedans around...and mine...well...the original owner...was Walter P. Storey. Professional title....General, United States Army ! And he DID travel a lot duing the war back and forth between what is now Davis Monthan Air Base in Tuscon, and Southern California, where he lived, and where, years later I bought the car from what turned out to be the wife of his by then deceased chauffer !

WHAT do I like most....hell...man...DRIVING the damn thing ! Being of relatively modest means....I worked "in the trades" to pay my way thru night law school. Worked as an apprentice machinest for a while...then worked in an auto body shop. Later, worked as a line truck mechanic. So...the answer to your question..I really don't have any favorites as for as car work......I enjoy all phases of monkeying around with old cars. Well....let me qualify that....we get so damn many flat tires out here..out of exassperation I finally bought my own tire changing equipment. I dont mind fixing flats on our modern cars...but...damn...those monsters on the big heavy-weights of the 1930's...let's just say I enjoy de-mounting a tire on the Packard...a bit less..!

Pete Hartmann

Big Springs, Arizoa

[Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL)]

1937,

I am a little better at electrical than I am body work. As long as it's wiring and switches, I can understand it. When it gets to what actually goes on inside that generator or coil or condenser, I just chalk it up to either it works or it don't. Having said that, I did manage to take apart, check out, replace the bad stuff, and reassemble my starter and generator on my Model A. Some of it was blind faith in the repair manual, but they both worked when I got done. The wiring on a Model A is so simple that most anyone could do it. You know what they say about electrical stuff. It runs on magic smoke. If you ever let the magic smoke escape from an electrical device, it won't work anymore.

I am doing the entire restoration of my car myself. I have learned a lot of things and picked up some new skills. Mostly, I have gained confidence to give anything a try. To answer your question, yes, I can do both out of necessity, but neither are my forte. It sounds like if we could all pool our resources, we could run one heck of a restoration shop!

[Ron Green]

I like the magic smoke reference HAL and will be sure to use it as I am a master electrican and that saying will come in handy. I always tell people "wirings not a hobby" but for many of us it is with the old iron.

Some what like removing the transmission as today my friend and I are taking mine out of the Amphicar. It is truely the heart of the car with 2 drive shafts and 2 water shafts. Not putting these cars back together correctly will result in a visit to Davey Jones locker at the bottom. Not good on a fresh restoration or a fall project freshen up.

Dislike any transmission work, just to many parts. Also dislike looking at all these parts laying around knowing that I need to have everything put back together by spring. This could be my last restoration? Have done 4 since 93.

Like, me and my buddy after the tranny is out having a few cold ones discussing how easy it will be to put it back in after a rebuild. It will sound easier as they go down. Also like my wife tolerating my hobby.

[R W Burgess]

I'm among "Masters", people who can repair anything, and still have it operate correctly. I'm like Hartmann, I like to drive the iron, Hard! I'm even dreaming of owning of an 1900-15 Brass car and gear it to run at least 60 mph, like I said dreaming. You fellows who have met me know I like to show off. Whoops, off subject! I like the mech. work, a little wiring if it doesn't have a computer hooked to it. And I don't touch body work. there are too many unskilled lackies already holding those career skills. I'm somewhat like my buddy Earl, Give me the bill, Man!, I ain't got time to talk about it. I'm too busy running my small business. Sorry about running on guys! Wayne

[Guest]

Ah.."magic smoke"...I knew it...I KNEW IT...see..I was right all along...I have been telling my friends that electricity was a mysterious "magic smoke"...and that if it leaked out..not only would the wires and the gagets they were attached to not work anymore.....but it might very well stain the rugs. All these years people have laughed at me....but you guys have re-newed my confidence....that's IT.....it is MAGIC SMOKE.....damn...i feel better ..knowing I was...for once in my life....RIGHT about something......!

Pete Hartmann

[1937hd45]

Sure glad I was right all along too. Bodywork is part if the "Physical World", you can see the problem, hit it with a hammer and correct it, make it as new. Electrical work is in the "Theoretical World" and controlled by unseen (unknown) forces. I think I need a 30HP Stanley.

[DizzyDale]

My favorite ,bolting freshly painted and plated parts on the chassis or body depending how far along you are.The worst is sand-blasting on a hot and humid day in August,Moisture in the line clogging everything up,i know we have all been their.Great to see Pete has calmed down,dont want to see him get bounced from this forum.I find his posts sometimes informative and ALWAYS entertaining,a breath of fresh Arizona air.I know it sounds a little crazy but i didnt get this nickname for no reason.diz

[Restorer32]

I particularly enjoy structural woodwork on the early cars. Doing a '49 Bentley now and it has more wood than Noah's Ark. And firing up an engine that has sat idle (in one case about 70 years) is a real rush....

[Ron Green]

After removing the Amphicar transmission I am moving it to the dislike. When I have to install it back in it will be in the hate category. I gave blood to this phase of the project.

[R W Burgess]

Ron, You need to let us know when the "launching date" gets near. Maybe those of us close enough to your home can throw you a party or something to commemorate the event. The very least we can do, worst case scenario, is stand by with a line to pull you in! I'm serious about the launching date. Make it a Sunday and I could bring the whole family up from Virginia. Wayne

[Bob Kinker]

I always enjoy the "hunt" for that non-existant stash of NOS parts, or that nice car of your dreams

at a really cheap price. Really is satisfying when you actually score. I also enjoy doing the mechanical

& some electrical part of this process. Actually the most rewarding part of restoration is the comraderie (sp)

that forms with your pals that come over to help, or at least drink all your beer!

[Ron Green]

RW, Launching will be with me and my friend (don't want to hurt anybody) however I am shooting to have the Amphicar complete by the June 20-22, 2003 AACA National Carlisle spring meet. It is going to be a driver with a fresh paint and interior in a few years down the road. I will probably enter the car as a not to judge even though it is in decent shape for a 2nd or 3rd?

Since I only live a few mile from Carlisle and if the river is deep enough maybe the Friday before the show or the Sunday after or both we can get together and take it for a swim? Others will also be welcome, heck maybe we can meet at my shop and have a little get together similiar to Rick Hoover's?

Like to give people rides just to see the look on their face as we drive into the water!!!

[Amphicar BUYER]

Ron - You will have a great time at the re-launch of your Amphi! I poured Chapagne over the hood 1st and drove in the lake to the delight of everyone! ('cept one old fisherman who was totally unimpressed) Gave rides all day too.

Some advise, before you take it out, while your floor is removed to expose the bilge, put in the bilge plug, get out your garden hose and fill her up to at least the tops of the tunnels, preferrably to the botom of the doors. I found all but one leak (1/4" hole 1/2" above where I filled her up to) this way. Look around underneath for weeping and leaks. Leave the water in for at least an hour to be sure. When you get ready to drive in, leave the back seat out for the first run so you can quickly observe any water building up in the bilge (Nerf bumper bolts or horizontal bumper screws tend to weep). Your tunnel boots are the things you MUST know to be good. The car will go down very quickly if you loose one.

I did the trans removal bit a short time ago. It took me <2 hours to remove it and 4 to put it back in. I had only me in there so it was cumbersome. I have learned over the years that ya gotta leave some blood and extra parts to the godz for the project to work properly!

Cap'n John

[1937hd45]

You may want to forgo the Chapgne and lay in a good supply of J B Weld.

[Amphicar BUYER]

JB weld? That stuff is for sissies!

Really, the Amphicars are not as bad as some people think.I have had mine in 2 foot waves w/o problems. What other boat has the ability to double the freeboard by rolling up the windows? Two of these cars crossed the English channel in Gale force winds and 20' (yes, twenty foot) seas! Two other Amphicars traveled 165 miles down the Yukon river as well.

[Guest]

OK I'm impressed, entrigued and hooked - I want one. How available are they? What would a decent driver (swimmer) be worth? How about parts availability?

[Guest Skyking]

Amphicar, some ask if my Metro goes in the water...I answer, "only when it rains".

[Amphicar BUYER]

Careful there TsandAs! These are like a disease! We would love to have ya aboard! Here is a funny clip of a guy taking his into water for the 1st time after restoration.

I have seen Amphicars parked next to Million$$ cars, the Amphi gets surrounded while the big $$ car gets ignored. These cars are always on show. I noticed that when somebody sees a old car of any vintage, they smile, but when they see an Amphi they giggle (really they do)! Virtually all the Amphicars are driven and swam regularly. Nothing beats seeing 60+ Amphicars hitting the water 2 at a time like at our club meet in Ohio.

We guess there to be only 200 or so sea worthy cars worlwide and maybe 900 in any condition of the original 3800 produced.

There are a few available from the needs lots-o-work to super-nice. A driver non-swimmer goes for about $10k, same car as a swimmer $15k, same car nice paint and interior, ready to show $25k-$30k-ish. Hugh Gordon's (mostly NOS) restos are a 4+ year wait and they go for $45k-$50+k range. See our club page for more info.

Most parts are available but spendy. As always there is the short list of the few that are made out of "unobtanium" Quiet a few of the really tough parts are being repopped by different people.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions at all. See my (albeit, somewhatout of date) website

Cap'n John

[Guest JT]

Capt'n John, Twenty foot seas? That's amazing. How water tight are these with the windows rolled up?

[Guest]

Very cool cars!! Launching one of these has got to be a blast. You just drive her right in!!

[Guest brh]

oops forgot to login again. Gravity and age they suck.

[Amphicar BUYER]

With the top <span style="font-weight: bold">and</span> windows up, you really don't need to worry much. Of course some water comes in mostly through the louvers in the engine cover. The bilge pump is able to handle it. There are seals between the windows and top of the doors, double seals around the doors, trunk and engine cover.

They got a bad reputation early on, but I am not sure why. They do take some extra maintenance, and are really not a long distance road car. The people in our German club regularly drive them, some I have heard everyday. I take mine out when ever possible. It's a car and not jewelry!