1938 Plymouth Sedan

[dei]

On 11/12/2019 at 12:05 PM, keithb7 said:

Thanks @neil morse. I do love the old Mopars. I bought the car for the love of the hobby. I was unsure how far I’d go with fixing it up. I dreamt of a beautiful spotless restoration. Then I looked at the sell prices for these cars that have been restored. Sadly much, much to little for the amount of time, parts and skill required to restore one. I do love the hobby however throwing money into the wind, I struggle with. If there was a family history or some other sentimental attachment,  I’d likely open the bank account freely. Today the goal is to revive the car. A solid, reliable driver. I very much enjoy working on them, and being rewarded by driving the old cars. Progressing while still being able to drive them is very appealing to me. Where I end up as far as a restoration in the future? Who knows? I may just keep progressing year after year. Then my sons will have to worry about sentimental value in the future. Lol. 

 

Just wanted to pipe in and say I agree with you whole heartily as to your perspective with the hobby.

For me it is just that, a hobby.

Like any other hobby it has it's ups and downs but because I enjoy the small accomplishments and can say "I did that myself" it becomes worth the effort (financial or skinned knuckles. LOL)

Not unlike you I also have one on the road after spending three years sorting things out from a long sleep and driving it while doing so has been a journey too. It was my second ever car so has that added history which keeps me motivated but just driving an antique car is well, just different, hard to explain and has to be experienced to know how it feels.

I also have two boys that will inherit the collection some day but in the meantime making the most of the cars in what will be the last chapter of my life. 

 

Have fun and keep posting.

Doug

[keithb7]

OK, I will keep posting. Seems there are a few folks interested in following along.

 

Last night was another small victory as the entire rear end lights up again! Light housings were refurbished will all new related hardware and wiring. Rust removed. A new rear frame harness. And whaddya know, everything works as new. I have no issues with the original 6V system and it will stay. I was digging through my spare parts trying to round up some 6V bulbs that worked.  The right side lamp here has an incorrect bulb in it, you can see that it's dimmer than the left side. I'll be out shopping for bulbs today. 

 

Thinking next I'll flash the engine back up after finishing up all the fuel system work. Fuel tank is back in. New fuel lines. Installed a spare used mechanical fuel pump again. Not sure how the pump will perform so we shall see. I'll put a gauge on it and test it. Deal with any issues and go for a test drive maybe. Might be be fun to go do some donuts in the snow. 😁 Next project I'll be pulling the tranny.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[neil morse]

Keith, if you're not averse to "invisible" improvements, you might want to consider LED bulbs for some of your lights.  I'm using them for tail lights and instrument lights in my Buick, and they brighten things up considerably without drawing any more current than incandescents (actually less).

 

This outfit has a pretty good selection of 6 volt bulbs in various sizes. https://www.ledlight.com/6-volt-positive-ground-automotive-led-lights.aspx  (That's a link to the "6 volt, positive ground" section -- which I'm assuming is what your car takes based on my MoPar experience.)

 

Neil

Edited November 14, 2019 by neil morse (see edit history)

[keithb7]

Starting to tackle some interior upholstery work. We’ll try 1 new door panel and see how it turns out. In the meantime the window cranking assembly and linkage will get cleaned up and lubed. Its stiff and dry now, however is functioning somewhat. 

 

 

[keithb7]

Today I took the opportunity to fire up the car again and drive it. The seat is out, I’ve resorted to sitting on a milk crate. Snow has not arrived yet however is due any day. The car is becoming better every week and I am happy with my progress. Its running good. 

 

A little video update from tonight:

https://youtu.be/LyMIPDy_7AQ

Edited November 24, 2019 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[keithb7]

Interior work begins. I am very fortunate to have a wife who wants to contribute to the cars betterment. 

 

 

[r1lark]

6 hours ago, keithb7 said:

Interior work begins. I am very fortunate to have a wife who wants to contribute to the cars betterment. 

 

 

 

Keith, looks like you made an excellent choice as far as your wife! 😉

[keithb7]

So far I am happy with my progress. Mechanical reliability has seen good steady progress since June. The car was limping like a badly wounded dog back in June this year. 

 

Video #4. 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[keithb7]

Pulled the tranny today. I was pleasantly surprised how easy that job was. Quick and easy. With the floor panels removed, amazing access is granted. I’ve never removed a tranny on a car this old. A real pleasure.

 

I had heard some powertrain noise that I needed to source.  I was thinking it may be an input or output bearing on the tranny mainshaft. Turned out to be the clutch throw out bearing. It was done.  Lucky me I have a good spare bearing.  I’ll order up new seals and gaskets to seal everything up. 

 

 

[keithb7]

Blog update #5.

 

 

[neil morse]

Wow -- that degree of access to the tranny sure makes things easier.  I'm about to embark on a transmission removal project on my '41 Buick, and it couldn't be more different.  No removable panels at all in the floor, and then of course the torque tube to boot.

[keithb7]

Trying our hand at upholstery upgrades. Doing what we can ourselves.

 

 

[keithb7]

Tranny is out of my ‘38 this week. I am attempting to install new input and output mainshaft bearings. Also re-seal/re-gasket everything. I ‘m quite enjoying the new experience and knowledge. 

 

 

[keithb7]

Well that escalated quickly. 0.052” clearance on countershaft cluster gear set movement.  Spec is .003 to .008. 

 

Due to a thrust washer that is close to vanishing from friction wear. 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[keithb7]

If anyone finds this thread, looking for help on 1938 era 3 speed transmissions, I'm hoping you might find this video helpful. I put this together last night:

 

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[r1lark]

Excellent video Keith, enjoyed it. 👍

[keithb7]

Time for a little progress update.  

 

I am still waiting for my transmission rebuild parts to arrive. I was out of town this week on business. When I came home I was very happy to see my wife moving along with the upholstery. Heather would rather I waited until she was done, before taking any photos. However it is fun to watch the progress and share a few details. She's pretty picky and not 100% happy with her results. This is her first time at this, so I keep telling her to not be so hard on herself. You have to learn and can't expect professional results on try #1. Look at the rest of the car,  it's not perfect either! Heather says that the rear bench seat will turn out even better. I am very proud of her skills. Having her interest in adding to the car's restoration is fantastic. All the more fun and feelings of accomplishment when we take friends and family out for rides in the future.

 

Seen here, she has started adding trim buttons. There are pin heads seen. They'll come out when the lower buttons are installed. We were amazed how light and bleached the fabric was compared to the original colour. We found original dark colours down in areas not exposed to the sun. By complete chance we had picked out new fabric that closely matched the original darker colour. The additional batting she added has the seat feeling nice and comfortable when I sit on it.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[neil morse]

Bravo, Heather!

[keithb7]

Some further discussion on my transmission rebuild. Here I talk about bearings, rebuild parts and tools.

 

 

[keithb7]

Tranny went back together fairly easily today. ¾" oak dowel pins really helped with holding the counter shaft and reverse idler gear shafts together.  All the needle rollers and washers sat nicely on the dowels. Then I punched in the actual shafts. Rear seal was putting up a little resistance. Hitting it hard with a mallet, square-on, on a block of wood over a tube spacer helped convince it to get seated. All gears seem to work and shift easily. Fingers crossed until I get it reinstalled. Before I install it I will remove the bell housing next and inspect the clutch. Also replace motor mounts. It's all tied in, so might as well get it all addressed now. 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[keithb7]

Meanwhile in the basement upholstery shop my wife continues to move ahead. She’s learning new things. She’s done a very good job for her first attempt at this work. She’s not 100% happy with her work. I assure her its great for the level of revival for this car. Unless she worked at the factory in 1938 in the upholstery shop, with all the tools and techniques mastered, she won’t be 100% content. 

 

She trudges on with limited tools and experience here at home. I sure am grateful. 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

You and your wife have great wiring skills, though have you thought about a wiring harness (or at least key under dash and hood parts) from say Rhode Island Wire https://www.riwire.com/  (looks like they carry 1938 Plymouth) - the work is great, delivery time very good, great instructions, and ... - allows you to fry other fish. 

[keithb7]

@John_Mereness I have considered this kit John. For various reasons I have moved ahead building my own harnesses. Price. Delivery times. Across border shipping. (I am in Canada) I have also decided to update the wiring with some later improvements such as fuse blocks. I upgraded all wires to minimum 14ga for better performance with the 6V system. I installed dual headlight relays. Upsized other ground and feed cables too. I re-routed some ground locations. Ordering a replacement new stock harness, then cutting it up to do these improvements did not sit really well with me. Additionally I am into this car out of pure enjoyment. I am thoroughly enjoying building the harnesses. Doing as much work as we can ourselves. Being in no hurry, frying other fish is not really on the radar. We'll get to it all. Thanks for the heads-up though. I appreciate any feedback here as we progress through the car.  Cheers, Keith.

Edited January 7, 2020 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[neil morse]

Great work, Keith and Heather!  As I said earlier, I really like the approach you are taking to this project.

[keithb7]

@neil morseI am pleased you are following along and checking in. It makes it more fun to know there are a few folks reading along. 

 

This week the hunt is on for a 9 ¼” clutch disc. Mine has 2 broken springs. The flywheel and pressure plate appear quite good. Strong tension. No hot spots. So the old girl gets a new throw out bearing and a new disc only. Married up with my rebuilt tranny, she’ll be great! 

 

Be a while likely before a clutch disc arrives. In the mean time I’ll install new motor mounts. After reassembly and test drive, the next project I’d like to tackle? The diff! I’ve never rebuilt a diff either. Seems to me there’s no better car to learn on than this simple ‘38 Plymouth. Might as well get it done. I will enjoy the confidence on future driving trips. Having gone thru everything, I’ll be headed on longer trips without a care. 

 

My bench today as seen here:

 

 

[GARY F]

You and your wife do great work.    I have been following.

[keithb7]

Yes! In a parts lot I bought in Oct I found a good looking clutch assembly. I’d like to clean up and use the disc. All springs are sound. Facing material on the removed disc that was in my Plymouth (and seemed to function fine) measured .2896”. Spare found disc measures 0.2907. A difference of 0.0011”. I have not been able to find a wear spec for these clutch discs. Anyone know? Thx. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[keithb7]

Slow progress in Jan as I’ve been busy with other distractions.  Snow removal has been a big one!

Motor mounts are being replaced. The old ones were in poor condition. Here I used my tranny pilot studs for re-installation, to help lift up the rear of the engine. I used my floor jack and lifted the bell housing up, to get the mounts out. I found 1 broken tube that secures the mount in place. I will get a buddy to weld it back together. 
 

The park/emergency brake was re-lined. Its back together now. I expect it’ll work really well.  All clean, no oil or grease.  What a treat that will be. 
 

Ahead, I hope to get the motor mounts back in soon. Then re-install the clutch and tranny and test drive my tranny. Sorta excited to see how quiet my throwout bearing and tranny howl might now be. I’m itching to drive it again, and I will soon enough. 
 

Edited January 26, 2020 by keithb7 (see edit history)

[keithb7]

Getting ready to set my tranny back in. I had a question.  
 

On the throwout bearing, what is the purpose of the 2 stiff wire, spring clip looking things? I don’t quite see why they are there. Thanks. 
 

 

[Bloo]

It should be rotated 90 degrees left, and the clips should hold the bearing back against the fork.

[keithb7]

In the spirit of helping others: Here you can see the pilot bolts used to support the tranny when re-installing it. I just cut the bolt heads off some proper sized and thread bolts. Worked well. 
 

Regarding the throwout bearing. Turns out I was trying to use a bearing and sleeve from a ‘53 Plymouth. The sleeve will not match up to my ‘38 fork. I rounded up the spare ‘53 fork that I had. It is almost identical except a slightly wider spread between the fingers to match the wider pad footprint on the sleeve.  So far so good. Al lined up and seems to function the same as the ‘38. However clutch linkage is not all hooked up yet. Will see. I’d love to kick myself if it all has to come back out. Lol. 
 

Why the heck would I do this? Every time I need 1 more part it seems it’s $100 minimum to get it delivered here to Canada. I’m trying to revive a fun old car to drive.  Using up spare parts I have accumulated that are sitting right here in my garage seems prudent. We’ll see. Maybe I’m a fool. I’ll put the clutch linkage together next and see. 
 

 

[keiser31]

It's a sickness. THAT is why we do the things we do with old cars.

[keithb7]

A real treat to work on these old simple go-carts. I love 'em. Tranny install....

 

 

[keithb7]

Tranny, clutch and all linkage hooked back up and all seems to be moving freely and properly. The ‘53 shift fork and throwout sleeve are a little different, but will fit up. The real test will be the test drive, coming up.  I hope I remember to reference here someday when I need a new throwout bearing. Lol. 
 

[keithb7]

 

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

Excellent video! I am really enjoying this thread. Thanks for taking the time to post!

[keithb7]

Tweaking a few things in driveway last night. The opportunity to test drive the car between repairs is a real benefit. It brings rewards and breeds motivation. The engine is running quite good. I’m not happy with the reproduction motor mounts I used. 
 

 

 

 

[keithb7]

 

[keiser31]

EXCELLENT! You think exactly like a lot of us.

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

Yes, I have the same disease as you........this from last Saturday, 15 deg. F. and I could not be happier. First drive since total front suspension and rear differential rebuild. I could not have been happier. I also started and drove my Model A that same day. Nothing like bringing them back to life to keep us motivated! Thanks again for posting your videos, excellent!!