Epoxy-like Filler & Seal Coating

[Friartuck]

Folks,

For many years I've used an Epoxy like Filler and Sealer called Kwik Poly. It is a two agent solvent based Polyol, meaning it mixed with base and hardener in equal parts. The significant advantages were 1) its low viscosity, much like water where it would seep (wick) into the material such as wood fibers and when cured, would provide a significant bonding, and 2) rather quick cure time, approx. 5-7 minutes in normal temperatures. Dry fillers such as aluminum powder, saw dust, and colored pigment could be added to suit the task. When cured it could be drilled, tapped and shaped as needed. My article on KP: http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public4/kwikpoly-1.cfm

Reinforcing weak wood and strengthening joints in seat frames is but one task where KP worked well.

Sad to report that Kwik Poly is no longer available. So the question for the group is there another product that can be used that does as described? The low viscosity is the main property to duplicate. Most epoxies can be mixed with dry fillers, but are thick. Suggestions?

[PFitz]

49 minutes ago, Friartuck said:

 

Folks,

For many years I've used an Epoxy like Filler and Sealer called Kwik Poly. It is a two agent solvent based Polyol, meaning it mixed with base and hardener in equal parts. The significant advantages were 1) its low viscosity, much like water where it would seep (wick) into the material such as wood fibers and when cured, would provide a significant bonding, and 2) rather quick cure time, approx. 5-7 minutes in normal temperatures. Dry fillers such as aluminum powder, saw dust, and colored pigment could be added to suit the task. When cured it could be drilled, tapped and shaped as needed. My article on KP: http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public4/kwikpoly-1.cfm

Reinforcing weak wood and strengthening joints in seat frames is but one task where KP worked well.

Sad to report that Kwik Poly is no longer available. So the question for the group is there another product that can be used that does as described? The low viscosity is the main property to duplicate. Most epoxies can be mixed with dry fillers, but are thick. Suggestions?

 

What you just describe is  "Git-rot".  We used it when I worked in boat yards 50 years ago.  

 

Only problem was, despite following the instructions to the letter, we found that it didn't  quite absorb all the way into all the rot. There is always an area right near where the rot meets  the good wood the didn't get soaked. In a year or so, we'd  see the same boats back with more rot extending beyond where the Gitrot stopped wicking in, and a mad boat owner who had paid to have the rot stopped. Wasn't long before we stopped using it and went back to cutting out 100% of the rotted wood and scarfing in good wood - glued in with good, slow-cure Marine grade epoxies.   End of problem once and or all. 

 

Replace the rotted wood, and use a high quality  wood glue, is best long-term repair.  Ask member WaltG how well that worked on his 41 Packard woody and 31 Franklin Victoria cars that I did almost 40 years ago, by now. If you must use a Git-rot type epoxy try boatyard supply warehouses such as Jamestown Distributors that carry Got-rot or West System epoxies.

 

Paul 

Edited January 19, 2019 by PFitz (see edit history)

[Buffalowed Bill]

I second Git-Rot, I've used it for forty years. When kwik Poly came out years later, I thought that I would try it. It was as though they had just copied Git-Rot. I went back to the original. I guess that I'm kind of old school, I kind of dislike when someone blatantly copies another's product. The main difference that I saw was marketing, G-R was primarily marketed for the maritime industry, while K-P marketed their product fro the antique auto industry.  

[JACK M]

We sold Git-Rot at my dealership but we didn't use it.

Just like PFitz says. Its a cobb for wood repairs.

[wmsue]

Are you sure it's no longer available?

Isn't Kwik Poly Hoof repair the same product. It sure sounds similar. Marketing difference?

 

https://www.nctoolco.com/shop/hoofcare/hoof-repair/kwik-poly-kit/p/556

 

Good Luck

 

Bill

[cxgvd]

Sound like a new product called Poly All 2000, two part epoxy, thin as water and sets in 5 minutes.  A friend recommended it, I never used it but I did look it up with the internet.  I used a product called Enviro Tex Lite similar except thicker, maybe like watery maple syrup and slower to set as in a few hours.

 

Hope this helps, Gary

[nickelroadster]

I have used both quick poly and a product called Smiths clear penetrating epoxy sealer.  The Smiths product is a very slow curing sealer but nothing beats it if you have rotten wood and you want the product to really wick up into the wood.   Both these products are still listed in the Restoration Supply  catalog along with the West System epoxy sealer which sounds very similar to the Smiths system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalowed Bill]

I guess that I don't understand why G-R didn't wick all the way into the rotted area. Admittedly I have never used it for boat repair. Maybe it doesn't do a very good job of replacing the liquid in a rotted, water soaked piece of wood. Or maybe the area it was expected to flow was too large. My wood framing issues have been both bone dry, and no more then about four inches, inclusive of rotted, and solid wood. In these applications I could actually see that the rot and filler material (sawdust) were completely saturated. I've also used it to tighten dried out, loose finger joints. I still own the first car that I used in on, and still holding up nicely after forty one years.

[Friartuck]

PFitz, Git Rot was not the product I was seeking. It has a total cure time of one week and doesn't have the low viscosity. No magic solution can replace good craftsmanship. If something is that rotted, it should be replaced. However, there are situations where some light damage (e.g. multiple nail holes from layers of upholstery) can be solved with an epoxy like product.

 

wmsue, Yes the product used in the equestrian trade for hoof repair is the same as Kwik Poly,  just marketed differently.  Some of that inventory is still available, however Kwik Poly has a shelf life of about 18 months. Part A hardens.

 

nickelroadster, Smiths and West are too thick (high viscosity) and long cure times (several days at best).

 

cxgvd, Your referral to Polyall 2000 sounds like the product. Its low viscosity of 1 centipoise (CP) is on the order of water (.89 CP) and short cure time in minutes and not days sounds like it will work for repairs I have mind. I suspect it too is a Polyol which will also have a shelf life. We'll have to try it and see. 

 

Thanks to all for the suggestions. Using Polyols in restoration has a number of applications. I would encourage trying it and you'll soon find yourself using it many times. A good example is setting brass threaded inserts in wood when making custom trunks. Peruse the article I posted at Second Chance Garage.

[stvaughn]

Thanks for bringing up this discussion Friartuck, this is going to help me decide how to strengthen up some areas that really don’t need replacing but certainly will benefit from an epoxy penetrant. 

 

Steve

[Terry Harper]

Back a number of years ago I built a couple of kayaks. The epoxy I used was MAS epoxy.

I used it for laminating fiberglass to wood and also to completely seal bare wood. For gluing joints or filling voids etc.

it can be thickened with wood flour or micro balloons.

 

With several coats of high quality spar varnish to provide UV protection its worked excellent and has held-up well over the past 10 plus years.

As for penetrating to seal or strengthen rot I would echo what others have stated  - cutout and replace.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom Boehm]

Hello Friartuck, Is Kwikpoly truly out of business? This company seems to have a checkered history. Years ago I tried to order some and was told they were out of business. I used an inferior substitute for my project. Later on I heard they were still around and I successfully ordered some. I love this stuff. I use it for repairing holes in wood and casting objects in a mold. I have had great success reproducing ornament on picture frames and antiques with this stuff. 

[Friartuck]

If you need some product immediately, search under Equestrian suppliers for Hoof repair. In a year or so, any remaining inventory will begin to lose its shelf life, so be mindful of this when purchasing.

[lump]

Years ago I bought Kwik Poly products directly from the company, from their trailer at Carlisle swap meets. Then they stopped attending that event, so I bought it through the mail for a couple more years. Later I had trouble reaching Kwik Poly, but found ads by another source selling similar stuff, with a similar name. I called that source, and heard that there was some kind of business struggle going on between the original Kwik Poly guy, and this new seller (who may have somehow been affiliated with Kwik Poly in the past, if I recall correctly). Anyway, to my surprise, the new source wanted to just ship me the product with an invoice, and have me pay for it later, even though he didn't know me and I had never been his customer (a rare business practice, for sure). The product seemed to perform identically, if my memory serves.

 

Then later I again started seeing small ads for Kwik Poly in HEMMINGS, and ordered more. I received it promptly, and still have a couple of old cans of it on a shelf somewhere. 

 

Based on my experience alone, I would not expect Kwik Poly to soak deeply into rotted wood. I did use it to seal the hull of a rotted old Penn Yan boat, but only on the plywood hull, where I did not need more than about 1/8" of penetration. It seemed to work wonderfully for that, although I went through a ton of cheapo foam paint brushes, and used a lot of Kwik Poly. Years later the boat was still holding up fine. However, I would not have expected to be able to penetrate thick rotted lumber, such as 1" square stuff, etc. 

 

One final experience: A friend of mine had an old wooden inboard boat which he loved using on Lake Erie. His transom got a little soft in a couple spots. He had seen me use Kwik Poly on a few things, and wanted to try it. I cautioned him that it would not penetrate that thick, soft laminated wood. But he decided to give it a try, and to find a way to get the product into the interior of the laminated wood. He used a long drill bit, and made LOTS of parallel holes in the transom vertically, all the way from one gunwhale to the other. I was skeptical, because transoms undergo such incredible strain and pressure, and Lake Erie is not a forgiving body of water! Yet, it seemed to work for him. He poured a LOT of that product in those holes, quickly learning to pour in only a little at a time (this stuff builds up tremendous heat when setting, and larger volumes of catalyzing product equals greater heat). So it took him several days to complete his project. Eventually he went on using that boat on Erie for years. I never did ride in it again myself. I just couldn't stop thinking about what happens when a transom fails several miles from shore! 

[Mongol]

Any updates on something similar to use The company is definitely closed.

[Buffalowed Bill]

Git-Rot is still available. It's been doing the job for many years, and probably will for many years to come-it works. Just to reiterate, I have used both Kwik Poly and G-R with the same results. I want to make it clear, I'm not try to sell the stuff, it's up to you if you want to use it. As I said before, the difference is in the advertising, or lack of it, and the market for which the advertising was aimed. 
 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history)

[4Hud]

PolyAll 2000 as mentioned previously sounds like a very similar product to KwikPoly. It's available online, $39.99 Cdn. minibucks.