63 Center Bearing Support

[Zimm63]

I need to replace the bearing and am debating having the mount redone.  Picture attached shows some minor cracking on one side.  The rest of it looks OK, its not oil soaked, and I got the bearing out without damage.  Looking for advice from those who have gone before.  Redo or not at this time.  I don't want to over fix, but don't want to be stuck a couple hundred miles from home with a failed part that takes 2-3 weeks to turn around.  

[jframe]

In my experience so far, if ONE component fails, the others of that system ain't far behind. I had a complete redo of the driveshaft on mine. I had also redone the brakes with new master cylinder, shoes, hardware, wheel cylinders, and rubber lines plus a fluid flush. Guess what failed? Yep, the booster. 50 year old vehicles have 50 year old rubber; yes, I would definitely replace it.

[JZRIV]

ABSOLUTELY without question replace the mount. 

[60FlatTop]

"When in doubt, change it out".

 

Learned that when I was 19 years old and sailing the South China Sea, good policy so far.

[RivNut]

 

http://www.oldbuickparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=6033

 

 

http://www.oldbuickparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_341_342&products_id=6508

[Zimm63]

Thanks, but 63 has a separate listing.  Pretty sure its a one year only part as the driveshafts were changed to CV joints in 64.  Thats why it takes 2-3 weeks.  Has to be rebuilt with new rubber.

 

 

[DrP]

1963 Riv: Seeking help. Having a knocking sound somewhere in rear on acceleration and deceleration. Doesn't happen all the time. Checked exhaust system to make sure not hitting. Could it caused by this bearing? The car has 25,000 original miles but sat in storage for 27 years. Other rubber parts are dried and have been replaced. Guess the drive shaft needs to be removed to do the bearing install. ( I have the shop manual).  If I replace this is here anything else I need to order and do while this is out? Will I need both bearings as shown in RivNut's post? Someone advise please.  Tnx

[Zimm63]

Shop manual is your friend.  My bearing didn't knock, it whined.  Upon removal,  it clearly is bad.  

 

Quick idea, check the bolts that hold the center mount in place.  There are other threads on driveshafts out there.  Is the sound from the back of the car, or the middle?  Could be a bunch of stuff.

 

Taking the drive shaft out was no big deal, but I think a helper might be good when I put it back.  I disassembled it using a large crescent wrench for the center nut, a large three jaw puller to take the mount/bearing off the shaft, and a press to remove the bearing from the mount.  Need to study up on how to put it back together.  I may have to make some correctly sized pieces to put the bearing back in, but have the means to do so.  I also plan to replace all three U Joints while its out.  One is stiff and they arent' expensive to do.  

 

[Riviera63]

2 hours ago, DrP said:

1963 Riv: Seeking help. Having a knocking sound somewhere in rear on acceleration and deceleration. Doesn't happen all the time. Checked exhaust system to make sure not hitting. Could it caused by this bearing? The car has 25,000 original miles but sat in storage for 27 years. Other rubber parts are dried and have been replaced. Guess the drive shaft needs to be removed to do the bearing install. ( I have the shop manual).  If I replace this is here anything else I need to order and do while this is out? Will I need both bearings as shown in RivNut's post? Someone advise please.  Tnx

 

Sounds to me like the infamous "Riviera Rattle". I would check this out before doing more invasive things. Do a search for "Riviera Rattle" on this forum. and you will find much discussion on this, it's causes and cures. If it is this, it is nothing to worry about other than being annoying. When I first got my 63 I heard this and of course was very concerned. Reading the info on this forum helped me get to the cause and the cure. I hope this helps.

[Jim Cannon]

2 hours ago, DrP said:

1963 Riv: Seeking help. Having a knocking sound somewhere in rear on acceleration and deceleration. Doesn't happen all the time. Checked exhaust system to make sure not hitting. Could it caused by this bearing? The car has 25,000 original miles but sat in storage for 27 years. Other rubber parts are dried and have been replaced. Guess the drive shaft needs to be removed to do the bearing install. ( I have the shop manual).  If I replace this is here anything else I need to order and do while this is out? Will I need both bearings as shown in RivNut's post? Someone advise please.  Tnx

 

Does this vehicle have A/C?

 

If no A/C, then  no fuel return line and no "Riviera rattle".

 

 

[65VerdeGS]

2 hours ago, Zimm63 said:

 My bearing didn't knock, it whined.  Upon removal,  it clearly is bad

 

Hi Zimm63,

 

Can you tell us more about the sound your failing bearing was making?  Did it make the whining sound all the time?  Or only on coasting, or accelerating?  Did the sound come on gradually and get worse over time?

 

I have a similar vague whining noise in my '65 Riv.  Much of the time it isn't that noticeable.  I was thinking perhaps a wheel bearing, but now wonder if it could be my center support bearing?

 

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[RivNut]

I just picked up my car today after having a rear wheel bearing replaced.  It was a constant sound that had a rhythm to it as well as feel it in the seat of your pants.  And the faster I went, the faster the rhythm got.  I had to replace the axle as well.  The bearing surface was really galled when I saw it.  Luckily it hadn't frozen up and welded the axle to the housing.  You'd probably want to take it into a shop and put it on a lift and get your little mechanics stethoscope on it to make sure.

[jframe]

12 hours ago, RivNut said:

I just picked up my car today after having a rear wheel bearing replaced.  It was a constant sound that had a rhythm to it as well as feel it in the seat of your pants.  And the faster I went, the faster the rhythm got.  I had to replace the axle as well.  The bearing surface was really galled when I saw it.  Luckily it hadn't frozen up and welded the axle to the housing.  You'd probably want to take it into a shop and put it on a lift and get your little mechanics stethoscope on it to make sure.

These axles just bolt in, don't they? Since it's a chunk type rear, no "C" clips? Thinking about doing the rear axle bearings on mine, since I don't know how old they are.

[Zimm63]

My bearing made a low pitch whine at low speed, increasing to a high pitch at highway speed.  Front/center of the car.   I was concerned it might be the trans, but the stethoscope told the tale..   Clearly the bearing,, which was found to be bad upon disassembly.   

[RivNut]

3 hours ago, jframe said:

These axles just bolt in, don't they? Since it's a chunk type rear, no "C" clips? Thinking about doing the rear axle bearings on mine, since I don't know how old they are.

I don't know.  I've never done one.  The car I referred to above was not a Riviera. What does your Chassis manual say?

Edited January 8, 2019 by RivNut (see edit history)

[KongaMan]

They bolt in.  Remove the retaining plate and pull it out.  You can borrow a slide hammer and adapter from AutoZone.  Or you can go hillbilly like we used to: bolt a length of heavy chain onto a lug bolt, then crack it like a whip.

 

The hard part, of course, is replacing the bearing, as you'll need a press.  But here's the thing: a local shop quoted me $250 to replace two axle bearings (different car, but same bearing setup).  Rather than pay that, I bought a 20-ton press from Harbor Freight, and two bearings and 4 seals from Rock Auto, all for much less than $250 -- and now I own a press.

 

Mission creep alert: as long as you have the axles out, pull the rear end to check the ring gear bolts and change the fluid.

[JZRIV]

1 hour ago, KongaMan said:

  Or you can go hillbilly like we used to: bolt a length of heavy chain onto a lug bolt, then crack it like a whip.

Hey I resemble that remark!  Only leave out the "like we used to". I still use that method today.

[65VerdeGS]

6 hours ago, Zimm63 said:

My bearing made a low pitch whine at low speed, increasing to a high pitch at highway speed.  Front/center of the car.   I was concerned it might be the trans, but the stethoscope told the tale..   Clearly the bearing,, which was found to be bad upon disassembly.   

 

Hmmm - sounds like my car might be developing the same problem.  Except, I get the low pitched whine which doesn't change as speed increases.  Perhaps the noise is masked by tire and other noises at higher speeds.  At least I now have an idea of what to "look forward to".

 

Is the center support bearing setup different on the '65 cars?  Or, are all First Gen's the same?

 

[60FlatTop]

2 hours ago, KongaMan said:

Or you can go hillbilly like we used to: bolt a length of heavy chain onto a lug bolt, then crack it like a whip.

 

You can just flip the drum over and put three lug nuts on it. Leave slack and it makes a good slide hammer. Just a couple pulls should get it.

 

Mine would make a chucking noise you could hear driving past guard rails or a fence. I thought it was a U-joint and replaced all five. When I raised the rear of the car and put it in gear the spinning wheels showed the bad bearing right away.

 

That was just before the Buick Nationals in Sandusky, Ohio. Been good ever since. Oh, they were still selling new center supports at NAPA back then, too.

[RivNut]

2 hours ago, 65VerdeGS said:

 

Hmmm - sounds like my car might be developing the same problem.  Except, I get the low pitched whine which doesn't change as speed increases.  Perhaps the noise is masked by tire and other noises at higher speeds.  At least I now have an idea of what to "look forward to".

 

Is the center support bearing setup different on the '65 cars?  Or, are all First Gen's the same?

 

If the whine doesn't increase and decrease with increases and decreases in speed, it's not a bearing. 

 

According to the guys behind the bench at CARS, 63's are joined by U-joints and the 64 and 65 are joined by constant velocity  joints.  What I find strange is that the carrier is listed for 64 - 70 but the bearing itself is listed for 63 - 71.  Anyone out there have an actual parts book and can verify the info in CARS listings?

 

Classic Buicks has a listing similar to CARS

https://classicbuicks.com/shop/chassis-parts/driveshaft-parts/a-b-driveshaft-center-support-mount/

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by RivNut (see edit history)

[KongaMan]

3 hours ago, 65VerdeGS said:

Hmmm - sounds like my car might be developing the same problem.  Except, I get the low pitched whine which doesn't change as speed increases.

 

Those were the symptoms I had.  In my case, it was a bad pinion bearing.

 

You might jack up the rear end (I used jack stands under the frame and axle; 4 in all) and crawl under with the car in gear and running to see if you can isolate the noise.  You might not be able to differentiate between a pinion bearing and a carrier bearing, but you'll be able to tell whether the noise is in the driveshaft, rear end, or wheel bearings.

[65VerdeGS]

3 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

Those were the symptoms I had.  In my case, it was a bad pinion bearing.

 

Thanks KongaMan for your tip on diagnosing the noise.  Noise diagnosis can be challenging.  I had a roar/whining noise in my Corvette and was convinced it was coming from the rear of the car.  Turned out it was a bad front wheel bearing!  

[KongaMan]

2 hours ago, RivNut said:

What I find strange is that the carrier is listed for 64 - 70 but the bearing itself is listed for 63 - 71.  Anyone out there have an actual parts book and can verify the info in CARS listings?

 

I've got the parts book, but it gets interesting.  The same center bearing is listed for all 61-66 (part # 904778).  For the center bearing support, there is one for early 64 (part # 1365126), then another for late 64 and 65 (part # 1356541).  The first is for jobs with a spacer welded to the mounting support; the latter is for jobs without the spacer.  The latter part is also used on 61-64 fullsize cars.  The one for early 64 is unique, as is the one for the 63 Riviera (part # 1355470).

Edited January 9, 2019 by KongaMan (see edit history)

[Zimm63]

I have a complete 64 driveshaft here for comparison.  The 63 bearing mount is taller than the 64.  Wonder if the difference is the spacer that Konga Man refers to.  

 

From a diagnosis standpoint, a mechanic's stethascope is a handy device.  In my case, with the car on stands and blocked, I ran it in gear while touching the various points.  Rear, nice smooth sound, trans was the same.  Touched the probe to the bottom of the frame under the bearing mount and BINGO there was the noise.  

[RockinRiviDad]

On 1/8/2019 at 7:12 AM, jframe said:

These axles just bolt in, don't they? Since it's a chunk type rear, no "C" clips? Thinking about doing the rear axle bearings on mine, since I don't know how old they are.

 

Correct…no “C” clips