cevensky Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 Today I’ll try to get the drivetrain bolted in. All 6 of those bolts. I’m about four inches forward from where the engine needs to be. I’ll have to get a come along or ratchet strap on the rear mount and ratchet it back to the frame. I’ve tried everything else. It’s heavy. My cleaned up driveshaft is in. I also got a set of beauty rings 😎 and I put in the new master cylinder while I had the real estate. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 Alright. Bolted in, drive shaft connected, oil in engine, plugs in, manifolds and carb on, starter on, gas pump (of unknown condition) is on, and maybe some other things. Tomorrow I’ll get the distributor on and hot wire a coil, run some flex tube to a gas can, and see what happens. Does anyone have a diagram showing the shifter/throttle/starter linkage? I took pictures but the complexity has rendered them totally inadequate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkEE Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Nice progress! Maybe someone with a shop manual can confirm there’s info on that, or better yet copy and post. Here’s a site that has a repro (I don’t know anything about them, though): https://www.themotorbookstore.com/1941-1948-pontiac-shop-manual.html?cmp=googleproducts&kw=1941-1948-pontiac-shop-manual&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyKrxBRDHARIsAKCzn8wgGrQHHrOqE7XicWojJkJI6Tea-4uYRVTOJmjskG4iXL56KwoD3LIaAhmVEALw_wcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 That manual is actually available free online in a PDF! It’s got wiring diagrams and all that... from pictures of other engines online I got the pump hooked up after I got a brand new one today. I put the pump on and it fired right up- sounded great too. I think I might’ve flooded it trying after, but it did run a bit! Tomorrow I’ll work on getting driver‘s side brakes done, installing the fan and radiator, and getting the key wired up so I can kill it. I also need to get a better deal between exhaust pipe and manifold, if anyone has any tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkEE Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Do you recall where you found the pdf version? I see one in various pieces here: http://pontiac.oldcarmanualproject.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Heaps Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 WOW! nice job on the engine and compartment. I'm sure you'll do as fine a job on the brake system. Did you install a new fuel tank and steel line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 What I’m able to find online is plenty. Rusty- Thanks. Nobody makes exact fuel tank reproductions anymore, they’re universal and require modification. I can’t even get into the trunk right now, so I’m running off a little red gas can. Today I installed one new brake line, did some wiring so I can kill it with the key, and put a different gasket on the exhaust pipe to manifold. Looks like manifold is still leaking somehow... I may have to undo and retorque the whole thing. The engine was definitely flooded. I need to adjust the two mixture screws on the carb (see attached pic, flooded tube goes to the middle cylinders). For now I’m leaving it off for the night with paper towel to help the gas evaporate out. The first start with the gas pump was the best. I think it flooded shortly thereafter which is why it’s been so hard to start. Battery is charging, I’ll try again tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kib Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Hi, there is a option if you find a Volvo PV 444,Duett 445 cluster, they are also 6 volt. On my pictures you will se that they a quite simmilar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kib Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Tank: https://www.cvi-automotive.se/sv/articles/2.14295.46144/tankarmatur-duett-445210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 cevensky, You made great progress on the Pontiac. Very nice work. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 Today I put the radiator and all that on, figured it can’t hurt. This weekend I’ll try to run it, mixture screws adjusted this time and will have a cooling system too. I’ll also buy a fire extinguisher so I don’t have to worry about the exhaust leak, if it’s still present. I need to get that lower deck panel fixed up where I cut it... thinking something temporary (no welding) until I’m sure it doesn’t have to all come out for the transmission. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) Today I drove it out of the garage under its own power and backed it in too. Without brakes, so it was slow and timid. It ran very very rich (lots of black smoke) unless I held the choke open, but then it idled very fast. I’m thinking I have a timing issue because I played with the mixture screws and they both were opened several turns without much difference (I know the standard is about one turn open). It also wouldn’t start without holding the choke open... Can the timing cause this kind of rich running condition with a Carter WCD? Is the pump pumping too much? I have a pressure regulator I could use. The carb is rebuilt I’m trying to get away with adjusting the metering rod only if I have to. It was fun though! Edited February 3, 2020 by cevensky (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 Update: got the idle issue fixed by my neighbor. The thermospring needed some adjustment and some timing adjustment as well. Fires right up, purrs. It did almost overheat (original gauge and temp sender both operate well), turns out the original thermostat doesn’t work. Easy fix. All my brakes are hooked up: front pads look brand new, rears are almost bare. I just need new rear shoes and to bleed the system. I’ll pull the gas tank and try to inspect it when I get the chance. Still have an exhaust leak at the engine. I’ll try to do some orange rtv but I’ll probably have to get a new manifold gasket set too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) Well, we got on the road for the first time! grill is back on, brakes bled, transmission seems pretty responsive... after nearly a whole other gallon of ATF. I’ve run flex hose to the trunk and tied a five gallon can in there. The tank has been sealed on the inside, but has several gallons of very very old gas in it. So what does one do with old gas? I had the original temp sender and gauge hooked up and it worked when the engine almost over heated when badly timed, but after a new thermostat it barely registered after 8 or so minutes of idling... so I put a mechanical one on, turns out the engine just doesn’t get too hot. I won’t take that as a bad thing for now. I will have to repair floor pans. However, the old bank account is running on E right now. First thing after I get some cash will be a 6v alternator painted black. Edited February 20, 2020 by cevensky (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Great to hear that the car is back on the road. You have done a lot of good work to it, and we've enjoyed your updates. Looking forward to more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff53 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 The photo of the back of the dash cluster--- the ammeter gauge--- Does that green wire go to the starter? and what gauge is it... Sorry it may seem like I ask a lot of questions- but let's just say I bumped into a mechanic shop tat was and now is familiar with small claims.... But hey he knew how to take things apart.... Other thing is - there are 2 trim rings that go around the clock, The first is no problem clock seats fine, the 2nd- is the problem -the one that has the hole for the clock setting screw /post... I don't want to force it thru the hole on the trim ring- but can't see any other way unless I bend the tabs, and once the tabs start getting bent they usually break off. any I ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) Thanks Paul, it was definitely rewarding. I would've gone further but I need to gain some confidence and also find my tire chuck... Having a real gas tank wouldn't hurt, neither would a charging system. Jeff- all I can say is that yes, the green does go to the starter and ammeter. It isn't hard to find a wiring diagram for the dash gauge online. My clock is busted and I'm not worried about fixing it anytime soon so someone else would be better to ask. Edited February 20, 2020 by cevensky (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) Here's a video of it running in the driveway. I've had a few successful runs down the street, turn around in a driveway and come back. Later this week I'll get the gas tank and new alternator installed, I think a lot of the noise in the video is from the generator. After that, I should be able to really cruise around the neighborhood. I also have a plug loom retainer I'm going to clean up and put on here soon. May not look like much, but I hope what's under the hood makes up for it! https://drive.google.com/open?id=1iFthjiZI3An1Wu6r84mnQ3wM1evZQkQp Edited February 26, 2020 by cevensky (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 The camera always seems to amplify engine noise in my experience. You have done a bunch of work to that car, and you will be rewarded with a good running machine. Just work thru the little teething problems that always seem to crop up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeventhSon Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Cool car and cool video. 8 cylinders always sounds good. Enjoy it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 So I was tired of the exhaust and gas fumes and the inside looking like a trash can in general, so I took out the seats around noon just to do some (refined) redneck floor patching. Seven hours later, and I’m not sure how, I have new carpet installed. Basically, I wire wheeled and painted the pans as they were, then used various dealers and 22 to 26 gauge steel sheets from Lowe’s to patch it all up. None of it looked terribly structural, but I was careful to seal out moisture and leave no bare metal. All the patches I attached with self-drilling screws and then I used a bunch of that bubble wrap insulation. The carpet was $20 for 36 sq ft so I couldn’t resist. And here’s the proof. If you don’t like this kind of patching, the good news is, the car’s not on the market and it’s free to keep your mouth shut! I think it’ll hold up nicely though. If there’s any input on removing the radio, I am puzzled. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Good for you. That is all some [ most ?] need. Will probably last out your lifetime. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Perkins / Mn Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 1) you are keeping busy 2) you are having fun meeting challenges head on with your project 3) you are bringing a good old car back to useful life. Keep up the good work (and posting)!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeventhSon Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Nice job, you sure work fast. Now, about those door panels..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) Thanks for all y'all's kind words and encouragement. Due to my lack of funds I don't even know what a "door panel" is right now! If anyone has any left over interior materials I'd be happy to take them off your hands like card material and stuff like that. Door panels really are up next. Took it around on a Sunday drive. Sometimes on take off (like at a stop sign) it stumbles and acts like it will stall (it did once). Maybe my mixture screws are too far out and the air/gas mix is too lean? I haven't timed with a timing light yet.. Anyone have any guesses? It was a good 4.5 mile drive. Thing never gets up past 150F although the engine compartment gets warm from the manifold heat, I'm happy at 150 and added some aluminum stop leak because I'm too lazy to pull my water pump right now. It shifts through gears well and fast if I let off the gas every now and then, could the stalling problem and this be fixed by adjusting the bands? Maybe a good Lucas additive anyone has testimony using in an old, but maybe not worn, Hydramatic. Cabin was a lot more comfortable today, some ambient firewall heat, thinking of using that thick thick foam/foil stuff to stop all that if it's the best? And again, the radio, how is it in there??? Help! Edited March 8, 2020 by cevensky (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) I don't know how the radio is in there. Keep driving it. It gets better the more it runs. Get your timing and dwell set right before you worry about any driveability issues. Pontiac often gives you a range on the timing. Make sure the engine doesn't ping, and that it is not exhibiting the "random miss-like" roughness of too much timing advance. If neither of those are issues, the advanced end of the "normal range" is better. Almost everyone runs a bit more timing today due to the higher octane gas. I am an exception, i had to actually shorten the advance curve on my 36. I can't explain it, AFAIK nobody else has reported having to do that. I don't know how transmission band misadjustment would play here, but I do know that correct band adjustment is extremely important for long transmission life in an automatic with adjustable bands. If there is any doubt at all, adjust them. Keep after it. Things are looking up! EDIT: For what it's worth on many radios of the period, you pull the knobs off and there are thin nuts around the control shafts holding the front of the radio tight to the dash. Also, if the radio is one piece (no separate control head), there will be at least one bolt at the back or sides for support. Probably more like 3 bolts on a big heavy tube radio like that if it is one piece. Edited March 8, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 Thanks Bloo! These are the kinds of comments I come here for, you rock! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Your stalling/hesitation at initial acceleration is PROBABLY due to a weak "accelerator" pump, or whatever Pontiac called it. An easy check is --with the engine not running, air cleaner off, look into the top of the carburetor,. Jerk the throttle open , from wherever the linkage is accessible. Should see a squirt of gas . If not, the pump is not working properly. The idle screws you are adjusting on the outside of the carburetor are just that, Idle adjustment. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 Ben, the carb is all rebuilt and I know I’ve seen this squirt in the last month, but I’ll recheck. Fuel pump is also brand new. Maybe timing, maybe the choke plate needs adjusting back down to the closed position at rest a little more. We had to play with that to get the idle correct. Come to think of it, it was running so rich when I first got it to start that it could probably stand to have the plugs removed, cleaned, and gapped again. One or more may be badly fouled. Another source could be the junk in the inline filter constricting fuel flow, I need to check this too. Then I’ll find a fancy timing light to borrow. Thanks! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Heaps Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 As for inexpensive door panel material, I gathered useful and thrifty advise on another site that has worked well for an old tight-wad like me. Use the large election signs seen around town, especially near voting sites. Just make sure the election is over, or candidate is out of the running! I have found they make great backing material for door panels, kick panels, parcel shelves, etc. They're far more water resistant than cardboard. You can attach the metal bands to them and upholster them several different ways including using a spray adhesive. Hope this helps others on a budget. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff53 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) Heck, just wish I could find the correct banjo steering like you have in these photos. Mines to far gone to repair. Edited March 9, 2020 by jeff53 want to be notified (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kib Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Looks good, wish I was near this. Thanks for sheering pictures while the progress take place. Thore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted March 14, 2020 Author Share Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) Well I was going to woodgrain the dash in the car... ended up taking it out. I also painted some of the stuff in the car that gets the monotone treatment, along with an offwhite epoxy paint on the steering wheel. It’s my first attempt and I’m happy with it. Also, my wire wheel shined up the steering wheel chrome without scuffing it. I still don’t understand it but I’m not mad. Edited March 14, 2020 by cevensky (see edit history) 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Perkins / Mn Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Keep up the great progress! That wheel will just pop when the dash is installed behind it. Looks great! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Heaps Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Looking good! Keep us posted on your progress. It's nice to see someone else working on a project with a tight budget. I just refurbished (as in yesterday) the dash on my '50 Chevy Fleetline, also on a budget. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pm5471 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Can you talk more about how you did the wood grain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff53 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Wish I could find a reasonably priced Banjo steering wheel like that. My original- there's nothing left to fix and it has a metal hub ( on the back) with a hole. So far no one will touch it. Bought 2 others but the spokes are broken at the center where the hub is. and the hub is made out of neoprene so I can't find a welder who'll touch those either. I guess you can't use All-Metal or JB because of insurance.- I know they used them on other GM cars but nothing comes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted March 14, 2020 Author Share Posted March 14, 2020 The woodgrain really wasn’t hard. I do suggest using some test panels of cardboard first. Basically start with a lighter brown spray paint (maybe a couple coats, the wood stain melts and strips it if it isn’t totally set, too. Then follow up with brushing (not a whole lot) wood stain over it in a rough pattern of what you want. There’s various tools to do this but I went with cheap rough chip brushes from harbor freight. For dark grains I put little tiny drops over the almost dried stain and brushed it once to give streaks of “black.” It was fun. Alternatively, send me your bare metal and I’ll charge you a cheap price for average looking wood grain! 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cevensky Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 I spent today tweaking my still wet dash and glove box door. I dismantled the radio. I have neither the cash nor the desire to spend hundreds to get an AM radio restored. Instead, I’ve gutted the radio box (many of the internals were damaged, I’m not the first to poke around) and will put a small car speaker (or two) in there. I’ll leave all the controls and plates for looks. I’ll run a small marine Bluetooth amplifier in the radio box with the speakers on a 6 to 12v converter. I cleaned and painted the speaker faceplate and mocked up the dash. I also spent some time on the lucite wings. I flipped them over after sanding and Brillo padding the bad side with comet. I did drop and chip it but it wasn’t too bad. Just adds character. I also put some more bubble foil insulation on the firewall while the space is available. It went on right over the remarkably intact original pad. The more the merrier. I’ll screw some carpet up over this. Tomorrow I’ll do the clear coat on the dashboard and glove box, if they’re dry. They’re still tacky but I’ll leave them under the fan tonight. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 cevensky, You have come a long way on your Pontiac. Very nice work. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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