1911 - 1927 Locomobile 48 & 38 Gathering Place

[alsfarms]

I don't believe that a very active/accurate listing of surviving Locomobile's exist.  The keepers of the Locomobile Society have made no updates for years.  It may be time to see if the remaining instigators of the Locomobile Society would allow it to be updated and used as a tool for current Locomobile owners?

Al

[George K]

On 7/27/2021 at 4:19 PM, edinmass said:

James.......others I asked came up with 175 a few days ago........seems there is agreement thats the neighborhood. I would love to see it hit that or higher........not sure that body style will support that number in todays market. We shall see soon. I'll take some photos of it and give an update on it when I look at it at Pebble. I have a friend who is interested...........

 Find this precursive statement is somehow disturbing considering the anomalous outcome. Been on my mind. Just a thought.

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, George K said:

 Find this precursive statement is somehow disturbing considering the anomalous outcome. Been on my mind. Just a thought.

Please expand your comments.........and I shall explain my analysis. But it will upset many. It was an easy call. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[DGPoff]

I am by no means an expert of any kind, however I find Ed’s and other comments spot on. Except for the the top of the market in brass cars, there is a a downward trend in pricing. I can think of 15 sales that will support this statement. 
I find this an exciting time for those who love these cars, and have the means to chase things that 5 years ago were 3x the pricing. Let’s be honest, only so many buyers are in the pool. Simple supply and demand.

 

I know nothing about the car in question, but can cite 3-4 recent sales that tell me this was not out of line.

 

Then again, I’m no expert. But both a buyer and big fan of early cars that are tour ready.

 

 

[alsfarms]

To those following the Auction circuit, are any other Locomobile automobiles currently listed or will be listed for sale on any of the current advertised auctions?  My internet search skills are not the best and it would be interesting to learn of any other soon to be available Locomobiles.

Al

[alsancle]

Al,  not to my knowledge.   The place that we might see them would be the Hershey auction.   But those lots have not been published or filled yet.   If I see any I will link them here.

[alsfarms]

I assume that any Auction posting should be made shortly.  Thanks for watching.  It is always possible that a Locomobile for sale may show up at the Hershey car corral.  

Al

[alsfarms]

I was scrounging around the Internet, hunting for recent past sales data relating to Locomobiles.  I did find one interesting source, "Classic.com".  If you open this site you have the option to select a make and the associated market.  Then it will show a picture of each Locomobile sold along with the sale price.  It also shows a bar graph that trends the sale prices.  Very interesting.  According to what I saw, the market is still good but not as hot as it was a couple of years ago.  Supply and demand will come into play over the next few years as our older collectors decide to sell long time hidden Locomobile treasures.  The sale price, at that time, will certainly be influenced by the number of collectors still desiring to own a Locomobile automobile.  Take a look at these mentioned statistics and share your thoughts.

Al

 

[alsfarms]

Here is a picture of a 1929 Studebaker President, currently for sale elsewhere, if you are interested.  I will post this picture strictly to give an idea what the 1925 Locomobile Demarest Limousine would look like with the original color scheme, or close to it, as it now stands. The window reveals on the Locomobile appear to be a silver.

Al

[George K]

On 8/22/2021 at 6:02 PM, alsfarms said:

Hello George K.  I am curious, what year original factory literature was your page regarding Locomobile 48 Gunboat cabriolets?  I wonder if this particular model was carried by Locomobile to the end of the Model 48 production run in 1925?

Al

I had time to look at the Locomobile body descriptions. Attached is what looks and sounds like the car you own.

[alsfarms]

Hello George,

The picture you attached shows a similar Locomobile sedan but one that must be a 1920,21,22,23 and maybe a 1924.  The picture shows suicide front doors and a sharper rear roof line as well as no front brakes.  All of these are subtle differences to my Demarest Limousine.  I am very curious about which is the body builder.  Is Dorsay a builder or a body model?  Thanks for posting!

Al

Edited September 9, 2021 by alsfarms
clarity (see edit history)

[George K]

9 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello George,

The picture you attached shows a similar Locomobile sedan but one that must be a 1920,21,22,23 and maybe a 1924.  The picture shows suicide front doors and a sharper rear roof line as well as no front brakes.  (all subtle differences to my Demarest Limousine.  I am very curious about which is the body builder.  Is Dorsay a builder or a body model?  Thanks for posting!

Al

Can’t answer your questions as your car is so late. Anything is possible as a custom built.I know a limousine has to have a divider window. Does yours?  The attached pictures should help with clarification.

[George K]

11 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello George,

The picture you attached shows a similar Locomobile sedan but one that must be a 1920,21,22,23 and maybe a 1924.  The picture shows suicide front doors and a sharper rear roof line as well as no front brakes.  (all subtle differences to my Demarest Limousine.  I am very curious about which is the body builder.  Is Dorsay a builder or a body model?  Thanks for posting!

Al

Forgot to point out the term Dorsey refers to the center fender making the car sport six fenders. Attached are some more descriptions that may be helpful.

[alsfarms]

Thanks George,  The descriptions are certainly a good read.  The body on my Locomobile 48, built by Demarest and with their terminology, is "Limousine", or "Enclose Drive Limousine".  However, the information you posted suggests that actually it should be called a "Berline" as it does seat 7 not 5.  Typical the Demarest would be a five passenger vehicle except that the Demarest does have provision for two additional "jump Seats".  Thanks for posting.  Do you have any good factory literature pictures of a Landaulet?

Al

Edited September 8, 2021 by alsfarms
clarity (see edit history)

[George K]

Here are a some pictures that might be what you requested. So your car has a divided drivers compartment. Could you please post a picture of your car showing that feature.

[alsfarms]

Hello George,  Thanks for these pictures.  I can glean some interior details from them.  I will post a picture when I can next get up close and personal.  The chauffeurs compartment is done up in leather while the back was done up with some form of broadcloth.  I understand that is a typical method for limousines.  My jump seats are very much like those shown in the picture if not exact matches.  I do need to borrow a pattern for the lower support legs and floor mounts as those items are currently missing from my jump seats.

Al 

 

[alsfarms]

Here is the latest development regarding the 1925 Locomobile 48 Demarest Limousine.  The dash is complete except for the fuel system hand pressure pump.  The good news is that I have located a suitable replacement, per the attached pictures.  I will need to fabricate the two mounting flanges and spacer.  I would like to replace the wood knob with a hard rubber replacement that allows for a flathead flat blade mounting screw in the center.  Would someone with an original and correct pressure pump please share a good close up picture along with measurements so I can fabricate the knob?  Later this fall I will start up a restoration project forum dedicated to this automobile.

Al

[alsfarms]

Here are two additional pictures of the hand pressure pump.

Al

[alsfarms]

Does anyone here have current information on the early Locomobile Limousine shown in this picture?

Al

 

[alsfarms]

Here is a question for the Locomobile 48 owners among us.  I have been scouting around on the internet looking for reference to original literature relevant to Locomobile closed models.  Then I thought, how many still exist?  I am guessing that many of the closed body Locomobile's may be sequestered away in the back back of elderly owners now.  If you own or know of closed body Locomobile 48's, in any condition from "Pristine" to "Project" please share information here.

Al 

[alsfarms]

Let's stretch this question on where all the closed body Locomobile 48's are to include knowledge of existing Locomobile 38 closed body types.  Certainly, knowledge of closed body Locomobiles is among us.

Al

[alsfarms]

Here is a picture of a very nice 1914 Locomobile 48 that is going on the auction block at Hershey this year. Check out the auction flyer for other pictures of this beautiful Locomobile.  If only my pockets were deep......

Al

[JV Puleo]

On 6/28/2021 at 2:26 PM, alsfarms said:

I have been a serious admirer of the 48 Locomobile for years but had mostly determined that ownership may not happen.  That thought has changed with my purchase of an unrestored 1925 Locomobile 48 Demarest bodied 7 passenger Limousine.  The automobile will require some serious love and attention but does have the makings for a solid enclosed late model 48 Locomobile.  Attached is a picture of this "new" Locomobile project as delivered to my place.  Most of the pieces not shown are present.  However, I will be on the hunt for several items.

Al

 

That is a fantastic car Al. Yes, a tremendous amount of work but, at least to me, it would be worth the effort. I had a similar experience with the PI Rolls I bought when I was 20 years old...we towed it home on a rope but it wouldn't fit in my parents garage...we had to let the air out of the tires and get 4 or 5 guys to stand on the running boards..

Edited September 29, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[George K]

On 9/27/2021 at 8:34 AM, alsfarms said:

Let's stretch this question on where all the closed body Locomobile 48's are to include knowledge of existing Locomobile 38 closed body types.  Certainly, knowledge of closed body Locomobiles is among us.

Al

Here’s one Nethercutt has like yours.

[alsfarms]

Thanks for posting this picture of the Nethercutt Locomobile.  This body has the front lines very similar to my 1925 Demarest Locomobile, but the rear of the body appears to be of the close coupled styling with landau irons.  This model is likely a 5 passenger automobile.  I would like to see a good straight on side picture.  This is certainly a stylish design for a closed body and especially for Locomobile.

Al

[George K]

Here are couple more

[alsfarms]

The blue Limousine looks very close the what I think is a 1925.

Al

[alsfarms]

Has anyone "scored" an elusive, missing Locomobile part, needed for your Locomobile, while perusing the multitude of antique automobile parts at Hershey?

Al

[alsfarms]

From a couple of responses I have received, from Locomobile enthusiasts, not much was available at Hershey as far as Locomobile parts were concerned.  However, I takes one good find in the jungle of misc. parts to make us happy!  I hope if you attended, that you may have been one of the lucky few to score a much needed part.

Al

[alsfarms]

Here is something new that I learned while working on a very original hood from a Locomobile Model L.  Evaluate the picture of the number stamped into the sheetmetal reinforcement plate on the inside of the hood and behind the hood hold down bracket.  My question, did number stamping continue with the Model 38 and 48 Locomobiles and also the later series 48's?  I assume that this hood was originally issued on a 1911 or 1912 Locomobile Model L as the number shows 4541.  Your thoughts and experience, please share.

Al

[alsfarms]

I just noted the sale results for the beautiful Red 1914 Locomobile 48 touring car at the 2021 RM Hershey auction.  This car brought a tidy sum of $148,500.  Does anyone know where this automobile has been relocated to?

Al

[alsfarms]

I have been reading down on the Horseless Carriage threads on the AACA forums where the question was asked as to what modern lubricant is now used for bras and nickel era transmissions and rear ends.  I will pose a much more specific question here and hope that some seasoned Locomobile 48 owners will respond.  Here is the question: What is the best lubricant to use in our bronze cased transmissions?  I understand that shifting is directly impacted by the lubricant used.  The general thought that a heavier lubricant tends to slow down the gear speed to help shifting.  Your thoughts please.

Al

 

[AHa]

I can't speak to the Locos specifically or modern equivalents but the general consensus is to stay with the original recommendation, which is the 600w steam oil, available from any model T supplier. As far as I know, there is not a direct modern replacement, though some will disagree.

[alsfarms]

Thanks AHa,

I will also check with my local Ag. Lube oil outlet to see what they have.

Al

[AHa]

Al, You'll have to be careful with your local Ag supplier. Some will tell you their 90w is equivalent but it will not perform as the 600w. It is best to buy some 600w. I made the mistake of buying some equivalent and it was not a good outcome.

[alsfarms]

I certainly agree with doing a study before a modern replacement lubricant purchase.  I once bought some equivalent hydraulic oil as suggested by an Ag dealer because it was cheaper. Yes it was correct on both accounts until I paid a hefty price getting to change out a bunch of seals on the hydraulic system from using "equivalent" oil but not an exact replacement equivalent.  We have an actual Shell oil distributor that covers 1/2 the state of Utah who I do trust.  I will pose the inquiry to him and see what Shell Oil has as an offering for 600w that is engineered to work with brass with no detrimental affects.

I have read elsewhere that 600w may not function as well as 900w due to the difference between lubricant made in the early 1900's and modern lubricant made in 2021.  More thoughts please.  I would sooner learn from the experience of others than the hard way.....trial and error.

Al

[alsfarms]

I have been lucky to have a Service Manual loaded to me to copy for .y own use.  It is for the 19000 series Locomobile 48's, (1925).  I will post an image here that defines the type of lubricant/grease used on the chassis moving parts.

Al

[AHa]

Your Ag dealer is not likely to have anything that will compare to 600w. All the T model guys still use the 600w. What does that tell you? The problem, as I see it, is most people want to improve these cars. It rarely turns out well. All kinds of people will tell you all kinds of oils and grease will replace the 600w and do a better job. Who are you going to trust?

Edited October 20, 2021 by AHa (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Here is another photo of a page out of the original Locomobile Service Manual.  This one defines what Locomobile called out for use in the Model 48 Locomobile 4 speed, bronze cased transmission.

Al

 

[alsfarms]

Per the above image from an original 1925 Locomobile Model 48 Service Manual, what does the term "light gear grease" which is recommended before the use of 600w gear oil?  Any thoughts on that subject?

Al