alsfarms Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 AH, you are reading my mind. Some things simple have to be done, others repaired as needed to be servicable. A running old original suits me fine. Plenty of work to just get the limo to the condition of running and driving. The interior will have to be done. Dash will be complete when I find and mount the hand pump. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thlee Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Ed im really happy that I picked up my “huge” brass car for a very good price. I probably fall into that gear head category with some, but not millions, of disposable income. I’m with you - the market will work itself out and those of us who can, will get some great cars if we are patient. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Tom....... I vividly remember telling your father, I was looking forward to the day where I could buy a DV 32 Stutz open car for cheap money. That was 1986. The price hasn’t started to slide yet..........and they continue to climb at a rate that is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Just Curious, what would cheap money be? Are we talking $30 to $40. A DV 32 is so far out of my wheelhouse, I have no idea how to guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 53 minutes ago, AHa said: Just Curious, what would cheap money be? Are we talking $30 to $40. A DV 32 is so far out of my wheelhouse, I have no idea how to guess. A cheap one would be 400k, a good one 1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 Aside from the Locomobile Gun boat that has been discussed here from a price and value standpoint, what other antique automobile sales anomalies have we witnessed as of late? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Don’t want to out people who bought cars for what I consider low numbers. The formula used on brass cars....: HP Cylinders Marque Body Style Year Attractiveness condition Plug everything in, and get an answer. The above only works on 45 hp or more. Anything less, and you have to sell it on price alone. I have seen cars recently offered at what zi con half price, and there were no offers......these are early and low horsepower, but great brands and restorations. Best bet.....buy what you like, and want to keep. Then price is a small consideration. Do you know ANYONE under fifty that can drive a stick, never mind an early car with complicated starting routines? Supply and demand will make everything work out fine........just don’t have a barn full of cars unless they are 60+ horse power. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 I have not seen anything on other similar makes as compared to the Locomobile gunboat, as in Simplex, Crane Simplex, Peerless brass big hp, etc. I guess they are hiding out until the owners age or estate sells off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrow Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 One needs to be careful when drawing conclusions from one sale at one auction. I visited most of the Monterey auctions this year and purchased a car at one. I saw prices that were too high and some that were too low. Overall I believe that prices were much higher than expected. The Loco in question was somewhat hidden away in a corner and late in the sale. That particular car might have been better placed in a RM Hershey sale. The Monterey auctions tend to feature foreign cars and sports cars. In addition, my look at the Locomobile, left me wondering how stodgy the top would look when down. My sense, right or wrong, was that I would treat it almost as a closed car, with the normal price limitation. There is also an issue with a car not qualified as a Horseless Carriage, but such an old CCCA Classic that it would struggle on a Caravan. The result, is at a minimum, the car as well built as it is, would have some pretty limited spaces to fill. Johnny 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 Johnny, your thoughts are certainly worth considering. The market up and down yet certainly, some slipping of sales prices are evident. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I don't want to go any more off topic than we have already but Johnny's comments are what I perceived also. I did 4 of the previews and sat through 4 days of RM. Generally I felt prices were strong with some exceptions. Without seeing the cars in person you never really know. But the 48 was a deal and I would take that car over a touring car every day of the week. But I like unique things and many might prefer the touring car. The one to debate was why a thrown together DV32 display chassis would bring 120k hammer and an older restoration Model M Lebaron Convertible sedan that actually ran would bring 40k less? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 Another 1914 restored Locomobile 48 touring car sold recently, about a year ago. This automobile was restored by the past Wayne Coffman. I have not heard the sell price but have the idea that it didn't hit the desired mark set by the family. I had heard many good things about that restoration and Wayne also. Early on he he provided some valuable help to me on the 1909 Locomobile Model L I am currently working on. Thlee has also shared his trip to ownership of an early Locomobile (beautiful by the way). I hope we don't loose site of the fact that what we are involved with is just a hobby that sometimes has a serious dollar value attached. Each current sale/auction has different monied people in the mix and all circumstances just a bit different. It certainly is not like going to a grocery store to buy a can of beans when dealing with antique automobiles and associated parts. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I want to thank Johnny Crow for his comments. It is the information I was fishing for in my earlier comments. What is it they say in real estate? Location, location, location. I'm not familiar with auctions so don't know how to read postings like the Gun Boat car selling for 112. It's really good to hear the prospective of someone who attended and makes attending a regular thing. Overnight I thought about how my good friend Tom Rasmussen has a shop full of cars He is restoring and a waiting list of cars trying to get in to be restored. People with expendable cash will always look for somewhere to spend it. Private sales will likely never bring auction prices but it depends on who shows up at the auction and what they are looking for. I will tell the story of my friend's 36 Hudson roadster again. He restored the car and took it to an auction to sale it. It brought somewhere in the high 60s and the auctioneer bought it. The auctioneer took it to the next sale where He auctioned it off again and it brought close to 80 but he didn't let it go for that and took it to the next auction. This time it brought 100, but again, the auctioneer held the car. At the next auction the car brought around 110 and the auctioneer sold it. This all happened in two years time. What do you think the car was worth? How could anyone assign value based on auction sales? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Auction results are about that car at that auction in that moment. Different time, location, bidders, etc can make for very different results. However, they are also the only public data available and because of that each transaction in a small pond does mean something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) I know exactly why the Gooding car brought what it did.......but to respect the seller and new owner, I won't list it publicly. It was an interesting car, and well done. And I though it hammered right where it should..........it was retail. Edited August 21, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, edinmass said: I know exactly why the RM car brought what it did.......but to respect the seller and new owner, I won't list it publicly. It was an interesting car, and well done. And I though it hammered right where it should..........it was retail. You mean the Gooding Loco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) Yes.....sorry, brain fart. Any idea where Jack Passy’s gunboat ended up.........I’m guessing in the deep dark hole collection that’s swallowing up all the cool stuff on the left coast. That big sucking noise is a guy with endless money vacuuming up all the good stuff to never be seen again. Edited August 22, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 Could someone snatch a picture of the "Gooding" Locomobile, from the Internet, so we all know what we are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Ask, and yea shall receive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) Jack’s old gunboat............my favorite Loco. Edited August 21, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 What year is the black sedanette? I thought that style headlamp was discontinued about 1916? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, alsfarms said: What year is the black sedanette? I thought that style headlamp was discontinued about 1916? Its a 1917, and to call that car a gunboat is calling me a male super model. Why did it sell cheap? It’s not a gunboat by any definition I have known over the last fifty years..........it’s a ............. insert word here to describe the car...............if it’s a gunboat, I’m Oscar Wild. Note: The wallpaper won. Edited August 21, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 Ok Ed, I am baffled. Was the black sedanette represented as a gun boat design and the pale green Locomobile is what a gun boat should actually be? Please clarify the pictures posted, what your identification of each body style and which was the recent $112K automobile. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) Yes, a gunboat is a speedster or roadster.......at least from what I was taught back in the early 70’s. The car at Gooding was not by any nomenclature I know of as a gunboat. Maybe others can opine. Jack Passy’s car was a fantastic original. We took it for a spin about 2005 or so around his hometown. They should call it a tank........fast and fun........but not easy to drive. Edited August 22, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 4 hours ago, edinmass said: Any idea where Jack Pasty’s gunboat ended up.... 19 minutes ago, edinmass said: Jack Pansy’s car was a fantastic original. We took it for a spin about 2005 or so around his hometown. Our mutual friend Jack PASSEY is rising from the grave to kick your misspelling axxx and doesn't care about your lack of spellcheck..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 21, 2021 Author Share Posted August 21, 2021 Doesn't our spelling get corrected automatically and sometimes in a very poor way......🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 8 hours ago, edinmass said: I know exactly why the Gooding car brought what it did.......but to respect the seller and new owner, I won't list it publicly. It was an interesting car, and well done. And I though it hammered right where it should..........it was retail. Sounds like something is rotten in Denmark. It was a strange auction call and a very fast hammer. I am attaching a description from Locomobile explaining nomenclature. Cheers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Wow......thought that was an “auction added value” description. I shall stand corrected. It seemed too contrived to be an actual model name. We will chalk it up to an early marketing ploy.......and a good one. The question stands......where is Jack’s old car? I didn’t want to ask the family members when I bumped into them a while back........I think I know.........and if it needs to remain out of print that’s fine also. I would just like to see it in the hands of a collector who will drive and share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 6 hours ago, Grimy said: Our mutual friend Jack PASSEY is rising from the grave to kick your misspelling axxx and doesn't care about your lack of spellcheck..... My bad George......but because I’m blind, not that I don’t know how to spell his name. Big fingers and small buttons add to the issue........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Jack's son still had it two years ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Just now, edinmass said: My bad George......but because I’m blind, not that I don’t know how to spell his name. Big fingers and small buttons add to the issue........ I knew it was accidental, but I'll bet Jack had last been called "Patsy" and "Pasty" --ONCE-- in grammar school... 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Talk about Loco’s........and Jack. Just found this by accident. I was one year old when this film was shot.......neat car. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Nicked low res photos of Gunboat Cab. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 Posted yesterday 12:27 by Ed. I didn't know that we had Oscar Wilde, the male super model amongst us. Something about what a Locomobile Gunboat actually is. Now, thanks to a cut of factory literature specified, we clearly have a very good idea of what a Locomobile gunboat cabriolet is and also who a male super model is! What fun is this conversation. I learn things all the time! 😁😁😁 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Al, It’s me or the wallpaper.....you have to choose! 😎 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 Ed, the response and choice is clear in my mind and answer is not the wall paper! I have heard nothing about some entity going after antique automobiles. I guess if they have the money to buy, so be it. That just changes the supply side of good quality automobiles maybe putting a larger demand for the rest of the quality material and maybe stabilizing the prices some. I guess I am an unrepairable hobbiest that does the antiques mostly as a labor of love..... The Locomobile 48 Demarest Limousine fits into that "labor of love" statement. Al 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 2 hours ago, alsfarms said: Posted yesterday 12:27 by Ed. I didn't know that we had Oscar Wilde, the male super model amongst us. Something about what a Locomobile Gunboat actually is. Now, thanks to a cut of factory literature specified, we clearly have a very good idea of what a Locomobile gunboat cabriolet is and also who a male super model is! What fun is this conversation. I learn things all the time! 😁😁😁 My posts are not meant to prove anyone wrong. I can’t effect auction house skullduggery. I can champion my friend Stephen Dean correct attribution. Stephen was a kind, intelligent, well travelled and highly educated guy. There was no reason for him to befriend an old wrench breaker like me other than being a automobile kindred spirit. Rest In Peace Stephen. As usual you were correct. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 22, 2021 Author Share Posted August 22, 2021 Hello George K. I am curious, what year original factory literature was your page regarding Locomobile 48 Gunboat cabriolets? I wonder if this particular model was carried by Locomobile to the end of the Model 48 production run in 1925? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Just a guess......but there must be a “known” list of cars..........who is the keeper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 14 minutes ago, edinmass said: Just a guess......but there must be a “known” list of cars..........who is the keeper? Locomobile Society. Your friend Jack Passey was one of founding board members. Not very active as most of the founders have passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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