69 GTO Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 I'm restoring a 69 GTO and would like to know the proper procedure for painting. The car was disassembled, blasted and the body work completed. Then the car was reassembled to finish the body work and block sand. My question is, at the point the car is assembled and the block sanding has just completed. Is the proper procedure to then disassemble and paint each panel separately or is the procedure to leave the car fully assembled and paint the full exterior and then disassemble it to paint the undersides of fenders, doors, hood, jams, etc.? Shop owners opinions are very welcome here as they know their craft on the proper procedure. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) Paint door jambs under hood etc first. Tape off the outside to prevent overspray. Assemble the car and do the final paint job. If you really want a nice job paint all the panels inside and out, assemble the car, fix any flaws, then paint the car completely. If you do this you should give the outsides 2 coats, assemble, wet sand and do 2 more coats. That is if you are using the OEM type paint, for base clear or modern paints you will need to follow the manufacturer's instructions. Edited August 28, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 When I paint a car, all the parts are hung individually and painted inside and out. The body is painted completly striped down. This way there is no paint on the frame, fasteners and the body to fender attachment points are painted. The only problem this way is sometimes there is a slight color and texture difference between panels due to the humidity and drying times. (paint the doors and fenders standing up, not flat) Just be careful when reassembling so that you don't scratch it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 I'll add that with modern paints, you need to mask the outside when spraying the jambs and inner surfaces and vice versa. Recoating can be problematic with new paint systems. Be sure to read and follow the technical bulletins exactly. This ain't your father's lacquer anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichill Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 I agree with Rusty. Have assembled for final spraying especially if using a metallic paint. However its been 25 years since I closed my paint shop so I don't claim to be totally up on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 hour ago, erichill said: I agree with Rusty. Have assembled for final spraying especially if using a metallic paint. However its been 25 years since I closed my paint shop so I don't claim to be totally up on things. Most high-end shops paint the panels individually but orient them in the spray booth so that they are in the same relative orientation as they are when installed. I agree that metallic requires special techniques to avoid banding and splotches, but modern BC/CC paints don't "melt" together the way lacquer did. We used to shoot a final fog coat of over-thinned lacquer to blend the metallic together. You can't do that with BC/CC urethanes. Your spray pattern and technique needs to be perfect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) Fitting painted doors to a painted tub is something you do once in your life for good reasons. Bob Edited August 29, 2018 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Hud Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 21 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: Fitting a painted doors to a painted tub is something you do once in your life for good reasons. Bob Fully agree. It's a high stress activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friartuck Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) These are all good comments. I didn't see anyone advise you to block sand and block sand. Did I mention to block sand? A great paint job is one where you look down any panel and see no waves or ripples. I also didn't see any advice of paint products. I happen to like PPG products, beginning with the DPLF epoxy primer. Since its available to several colors you can color coordinate to the top coat. Since you don't want to break the epoxy coating, use a primer surfacer and block sand that layer. Another reason i like PPG is they make their sheets available to all: http://us.ppgrefinish.com/PPG-Refinish/home.aspx?lang=en-us Each product has its own sheets for base and top coat compatibility. http://us.ppgrefinish.com/PPG-Refinish/dualsearch.aspx?searchtext=DPLF&searchmode=anyword Edited August 30, 2018 by Friartuck (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: Fitting painted doors to a painted tub is something you do once in your life for good reasons. Bob It is easy if you use certain tricks. Multiple layers of masking tape on edges (placed first on a piece of cloth to reduce stickiness) Placing your fingers between the bumper and your precious paint. (fingers fix themselves, but not paint) Help from a willing assistant Taped up paint sticks for spacers when adjusting openings. AND, good common sense ,watching every corner and crevice. Chips always happen before opps's, don't let them happen. It's just like your wife having a baby, the first one has you all nervous, the third and forth, you just take another drink on the golf course and continue playing. Edited August 29, 2018 by Roger Walling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Roger Walling said: It is easy if you use certain tricks. Multiple layers of masking tape on edges (placed first on a piece of cloth to reduce stickiness) Placing your fingers between the bumper and your precious paint. (fingers fix themselves, but not paint) Help from a willing assistant Taped up paint sticks for spacers when adjusting openings. AND, good common sense ,watching every corner and crevice. Chips always happen before opps's, don't let them happen. Only if the door, hood, and trunk lid were fit PERFECTLY back in the primer /block sanding stage and some type of reference markers were left for hinge placement. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39BuickEight Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: Fitting painted doors to a painted tub is something you do once in your life for good reasons. Bob Hang the door from a cherry picker and the work is very easy. That way you have zero stress in holding the door yourself, just attaching it. Of course this one in the pic is just in primer, but you get the idea: Edited August 29, 2018 by 39BuickEight (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69 GTO Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Just to confirm, would any of you paint (and wet sand/polish) a fully assembled exterior before removing all the panels and painting the undersides and jams? I just pulled the vehicle from the shop who completed the body work and left the car assembled after block sanding/sealing and immediately put the fully assembled car in the booth and painted just the outside. Then the shop went into the wet sanding/polishing process on the exterior before they were planning to finish the painting of interior panels and jams. I'm not sure why it was done this way as it wasn't equating to an efficient process and it's likely the exterior would be scratched/chipped when disassembled/reassembled. The shop owner told me this was the best process for consisteny and efficiency but considering they went directly to wet sanding and polishing, I couldn't rationalize the benefits and reached out to a restoration expert who felt they were overcharging and questioned the process. This expert advised me to pull the car and continue with anther shop. I did this last Friday. Incidentally, the wet sanding/polishing took 40 hours on just the left fender, left door and roof. That's when I ended the project with this shop and contacted the expert who could not explain the rationale of the process. The estimated time to finish just the wet sanding and polishing of the exterior would be 125-145 hours (or 10-12K). Then it would need to be fully disassembled, underside and jams painted/wet sanded and reassembled. I pulled the car before this 51K project/475 hours (paid to date) turned into a $75-85K project (no mechanical/no parts/frame on restoration). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 34 minutes ago, 69 GTO said: Just to confirm, would any of you paint (and wet sand/polish) a fully assembled exterior before removing all the panels and painting the undersides and jams? That's like putting on your underwear AFTER you put on your pants. FYI, a quality paint job IS expensive. It's about 90% labor, 10% materials, ASSUMING no body work or metal repair is required. I do all my own work and just the materials for a paint job can run me $2000. Do the math. No, it's not $50K, but it's not $5K either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) On 8/29/2018 at 10:04 AM, 69 GTO said: Just to confirm, would any of you paint (and wet sand/polish) a fully assembled exterior before removing all the panels and painting the undersides and jams? I just pulled the vehicle from the shop who completed the body work and left the car assembled after block sanding/sealing and immediately put the fully assembled car in the booth and painted just the outside. Then the shop went into the wet sanding/polishing process on the exterior before they were planning to finish the painting of interior panels and jams. I'm not sure why it was done this way as it wasn't equating to an efficient process and it's likely the exterior would be scratched/chipped when disassembled/reassembled. The shop owner told me this was the best process for consisteny and efficiency but considering they went directly to wet sanding and polishing, I couldn't rationalize the benefits and reached out to a restoration expert who felt they were overcharging and questioned the process. This expert advised me to pull the car and continue with anther shop. I did this last Friday. Incidentally, the wet sanding/polishing took 40 hours on just the left fender, left door and roof. That's when I ended the project with this shop and contacted the expert who could not explain the rationale of the process. The estimated time to finish just the wet sanding and polishing of the exterior would be 125-145 hours (or 10-12K). Then it would need to be fully disassembled, underside and jams painted/wet sanded and reassembled. I pulled the car before this 51K project/475 hours (paid to date) turned into a $75-85K project (no mechanical/no parts/frame on restoration). This is a Pontiac GTO NOT a Ferrari, correct? I'll never get my head around post WWII mass produced cars. Bob Edited March 8, 2020 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69 GTO Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Definitely not a Ferrari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39BuickEight Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, joe_padavano said: That's like putting on your underwear AFTER you put on your pants. Yeah that's about as backwards as you can do it. Its almost not worth getting involved with vendors when you don't already know them. Edited August 29, 2018 by 39BuickEight (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69 GTO Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Seems to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39BuickEight Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 GTO-where are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69 GTO Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Central NJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69 GTO Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 The car is a 68 olds 442 and here is the condition as of Friday when I picked it up. This is 51K in work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 OK, I'm confused. Is this the car we've been talking about and the "GTO" thing was just to protect the guilty? In any case, this just boggles my mind. No paint in the door jams, trunk gutter, etc? The core support was not painted? The tail pipes are incorrect for a 442. Sorry, but I don't understand how this much money could be spent. You can buy the nicest 68 442 in the world already done for that kind of money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 The simple answer to painting late model stuff is to watch "Graveyard Cars". Mark, like him or not is THE guy to watch and learn the proper way to paint late model stuff. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ng8264723 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 That is not done correctly. There is still rust on the radiator support! For 50K it should of been on a rotisserie! Where do you live. I can recommend a much better body guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39BuickEight Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 He's in Central NJ. I also have a great painter here in central Kentucky that I would recommend if he was nearby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ng8264723 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Well ma is within driving distance. That's where my guy is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 On several GM car lines. the Fisher body plant painted the body, no doors, etc. That is one way to have no paint edge between quarter and door opening! Then the doors, hood, truck, front fenders were painted (and not necessarily at the same plant as the body) and these were hung on the car at the xxx plant. xxx stands for Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, whatever car the plant assembled. This also explains why some cars have paint mismatch between front clip and body. Therefore, to match factory work you should paint the moving/removable panels off the car. But a lot of people like to jamb the car, then assemble the parts and paint the whole exterior at one time, to make sure of matching color and texture of finish. Potato Potahto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ng8264723 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I agree but who jambs after? That is weird...…………………………….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTONUT Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 GREETINGS as a seasoned pro ive been restoring cars for 45 plus years i feel bad for you you as sooo many others are getting taken by greedy rediculous bodyshops to everyone out there get a serious est on paper signed and dated with time frame cost ect totally clear from the get go dont let these bums steal your money best wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 $51,000 for the maroon lump, how can someone allow that to happen? Show winning twins to it are selling for less. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 It's an old thread, but like a lot of others here I followed it with great interest, partly because I'm a GTO lover and that's what initially grabbed my attention. Even though the GTO piece of it turned out not to be true, it was still interesting. I'm wondering how this all turned out. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossp Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 I agree that it would be nice to know how this ended, but the op has not been online since 09/2018, so we are likely not going to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichill Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 After realizing how bad he'd been screwed he's probably in jail for threatening the shop owner. Of course we didn't see the car before but $51K just to get to that point? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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