Underhood insulation - 65 Riv

[moran75]

Hi All

 

I've got a 3 piece insulation kit for the hood of my 65..

 

However there is a 4th section of the hood...doesn't seem room to insert a piece of insulation, even if it was in the kit..

 

So my question is what would have been there back in the day? Or would it have been painted ..i've attached a pic of my hood showing the area in question..

 

Thanks in advance

 

Kev

[1965rivgs]

Hi Kevin,

  There was no insulation is this area. The area is painted chassis black with some overspray of the body color,

  Tom Mooney

[moran75]

Many thanks Tom - you see in my pic the number five in chalk...is this significant of being something from the factory? 

 

Cheers

 

Kev

[1965rivgs]

3 hours ago, moran75 said:

Many thanks Tom - you see in my pic the number five in chalk...is this significant of being something from the factory? 

 

Cheers

 

Kev

Most likely a factory paint crayon mark but who knows?? Seems I have seen a similar mark on cars here and there occasionally. Original spare wheels also carry a mark of this sort. I`ll check my cars, good question.

I suspect most of the quality control marks on the first gen Rivs were colored stickers which are found on the sides of the cowl hidden by the front fenders. Usually many of these stickers can be found consistently in this location when disassembling a Riv.

There was a deliberate attempt when Buick was assembling the first gen cars to produce a "clean" car at the end of assembly. Assembly line garbage, like build sheets (argh!), were not to be left behind. This is why first gen build sheets are rather rare compared to later Rivs and especially compared to cars from other lesser divisions.

I was told this in person many years ago by a fellow named Ed Lutnick  who acted as a liason between management and the assembly process. He was called to Flint on temporary assignment from his duties at the GM training center in Hinsdale IL to sort out the Riviera assembly line problems at Flint in 1963. He stayed, specifically addressing Riviera assembly issues, up to the Boattail models. He related MANY interesting stories to me as I spent an entire day at his home viewing his keepsakes from his career, which included trophy like plaques citing appreciation for his devotion to the Riviera line, his `65 GS, etc...one of the comments which stand out in my memory was a cliche which apparently was repeated often in Flint during the `63 model year. The workers would often say "you have to move a Riviera out of the way to get to a bathroom"! Buick had a commitment to have a `63 Riviera in showrooms by a certain date but had significant quality control problems resulting in many non-functional finished cars which could not be shipped. Ed told me Rivieras were parked all over the property including the roof of the factory!

Unfortunately, Ed is no longer with us. I did a google search for him not long ago and when reading his obit was tickled to find he held a patent for the Super Turbine switch pitch control system! Smart guy, he never mentioned that little tid bit. He was quite the character and one of the most interesting individuals I have ever met in the Riviera world!

  Tom Mooney

 

[Seafoam65]

                   I wish someone would reproduce the hood insulation correctly for our 65 rivieras. The original center section

had a hole in the middle above the air cleaner and the repros do not have the hole. I had to change out all my original

hood insulation due to grease from a leaking A/C compressor front hub seal. I wonder if it would be possible to duplicate

the hole by cutting the insulation with a razor blade? Kev, can you measure the diameter of the hole for me? I'm going to try to

duplicate it.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[Seafoam65]

              Tom, regarding factory paint marks........my Dad's 65 Riviera that he bought new with black painted rims with wire wheel covers

had the last three digits of the VIN of the car painted in white paint on the face of each wheel behind the wheel covers. Have you ever seen this before?

The VIN was 494475H900633, with the numbers 633 painted on the face of all four wheels and the spare rim as well.

[1965rivgs]

1 hour ago, Seafoam65 said:

              Tom, regarding factory paint marks........my Dad's 65 Riviera that he bought new with black painted rims with wire wheel covers

had the last three digits of the VIN of the car painted in white paint on the face of each wheel behind the wheel covers. Have you ever seen this before?

The VIN was 494475H900633, with the numbers 633 painted on the face of all four wheels and the spare rim as well.

Hi Winston,

  No, I dont recall ever seeing that. I have quite a few original spare tires and rims and none have that type of marking. What they do have, as I`ve already described, are paint sticked numbers the significance of which I am not sure.

  Tom

PS Your Dad`s car is a very early car, probably the second day of production, so this may have been a method the factory used in the beginning of the model year production?

[RIVNIK]

BTW Moran,     Be careful installing those insulation pieces! You want handle them gingerly as they are usually very brittle. Just by holding them you can easily punch a finger right through the outer surface. And have a sharp pair of shears handy. If you hold them up to their proper position, you'll see there are some obvious tight spots that need trimming down before installation. When I find a more durable replacement material I will use my old ones as a template and make better ones. The three sets I have purchased over the years all felt as though they were made in '65. Anyone else?

[moran75]

On 20/09/2017 at 12:08 AM, Seafoam65 said:

                   I wish someone would reproduce the hood insulation correctly for our 65 rivieras. The original center section

had a hole in the middle above the air cleaner and the repros do not have the hole. I had to change out all my original

hood insulation due to grease from a leaking A/C compressor front hub seal. I wonder if it would be possible to duplicate

the hole by cutting the insulation with a razor blade? Kev, can you measure the diameter of the hole for me? I'm going to try to

duplicate it.

there's also a corner cut out of the pad above the A/C for some reason - also original? i'll measure the hole when i get back to the garage during the week...do you know what the purpose was?

Cheers

Kev

[RivNut]

3 minutes ago, moran75 said:

there's also a corner cut out of the pad above the A/C for some reason - also original? i'll measure the hole when i get back to the garage during the week...do you know what the purpose was?

Cheers

Kev

To make room for the pulleys on the compressor.  It's tight under that hood.

[moran75]

1 minute ago, RivNut said:

To make room for the pulleys on the compressor.  It's tight under that hood.

 

1 minute ago, RivNut said:

To make room for the pulleys on the compressor.  It's tight under that hood.

aha...and the circle in the central pad?.....

[RivNut]

So when the engine rocks, the wing nut / stud on the air cleaner doesn't shred the insulation. 

[moran75]

On 20/09/2017 at 12:08 AM, Seafoam65 said:

                   I wish someone would reproduce the hood insulation correctly for our 65 rivieras. The original center section

had a hole in the middle above the air cleaner and the repros do not have the hole. I had to change out all my original

hood insulation due to grease from a leaking A/C compressor front hub seal. I wonder if it would be possible to duplicate

the hole by cutting the insulation with a razor blade? Kev, can you measure the diameter of the hole for me? I'm going to try to

duplicate it.

..hole is 8cm across...

[65VerdeGS]

I bought a reproduction hood insulation kit for my '65 GS a few years back (12?) and it has the center hole cut out.  In fact, the hole is die cut but the material is still in there.  I never removed it.  

Was this circle of insulation removed in cars that left the factory?

 

RivNut postulates the hole was there so the wing nut wouldn't shred the insulation if the engine rocked.  Could be, however this circle of insulation on my car is undisturbed.  In fact the stud holding down the air cleaner lid rests below the surface of the cover, so there would be nothing sticking up to mar the insulation.  I always thought the hole was there so the chrome pot metal center hood spear attaching bolt could be accessed from under the hood without having to remove the entire insulation panel.  

[Rivdrivn]

On 9/19/2017 at 8:43 PM, 1965rivgs said:

Hi Winston,

  No, I dont recall ever seeing that. I have quite a few original spare tires and rims and none have that type of marking. What they do have, as I`ve already described, are paint sticked numbers the significance of which I am not sure.

  Tom

PS Your Dad`s car is a very early car, probably the second day of production, so this may have been a method the factory used in the beginning of the model year production?

So Tom, as an aside, the second day of production was when do you think? 8E or 9A?

[NC1968Riviera]

On 9/29/2017 at 8:05 PM, 65VerdeGS said:

I bought a reproduction hood insulation kit for my '65 GS a few years back (12?) and it has the center hole cut out. 

I purchased a hood insulation set for 68-70 Riviera manufactured by Repops. It also has the hole die cut in the large section above the air cleaner. I had to remove this material but it came right out without any fuss. See picture below of installed kit. 

[Seafoam65]

                      I'll check and see if I can find some insulation with the hole cut in it....thanks for all the responses!

[lrlforfun]

OK Riviera People: I got the insulation kit but opted NOT to use it. Rodents abound in the country and they love hood insulation.  Mitch

[Jim Milewski]

My 65 Riv Standard 401 has the original under hood insulation and does have the center hole with insulation intact - insulation is missing over the AC pulley - mine is only a three piece set, it to was oil soaked, I took a paper towel and kept dabbing it to dry it out, have had no further issues

[1965rivgs]

On 10/2/2017 at 8:34 PM, Rivdrivn said:

So Tom, as an aside, the second day of production was when do you think? 8E or 9A?

Hi Steve,

  Actually, my math was a little off in my response to Winston. I vaguely remembered production taking place at about 300 cars per day which formed the basis for my response but that cant be. Some rough recalculation leads me to believe about 153 Rivieras were produced for each day of production. That is assuming 5 day work weeks and the absorption/extrapolation of the lack of production due to the strike in Sept of `64 which resulted in no production for that month according to Ward`s automotive yearbook. If my calculations are roughly accurate Winston`s Dad`s car would have been about the 4th or 5th day of production.

  To answer your original question there were supposedly 350 Rivs produced in Aug of `64. Assuming production was at a slightly slower pace than later in the model year that is about 3 days of production in the last week of August. There was generally a week or less time between body production and assembly for the first gen cars so body build would likely have been in the 3rd week of August...maybe as early as the 2nd week?..but not likely.

One has to remember, when referencing Fisher body dates, that the closest we can determine a date is up to 2 weeks time or just 1 day. In example, when comparing two cars, whose Fisher dates are 6Aand 6B, the cars could have been immediately next to one another on the assembly line because 6A was built on a Friday and 6B was built the following Monday...or almost 2 weeks apart because 6A was built on Monday of 6A and 6B was built on the Friday of 6B !! Does this make sense?

  I have a file on the start of `65 production with pics of Fisher Body dates and VIN numbers but not at my disposal right now. Maybe someone reading this who has some info handy can forward a pic of a very early `65 car...hope my math and assumptions are accurate!

  Tom