JV Puleo

My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

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Posted (edited)

Having fitted one end plate, I turned the piece around, indicated it and cut off the ring of tubing that had held it in the chuck while I bored the inside and turned the outside.

 

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Then turned the relief for the other end plate.

 

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The fit was just a little tight, which is what I wanted. To remove the inevitable burrs I lapped the end plates to the center section of the pump.

 

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This is what it is supposed to look like. The diameter of the center piece is identical to the first pump but the end plates are 3/4" smaller in diameter.

 

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With that done I went on to the center portion of the pump.

 

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Drilled as large as I can. Tomorrow I'll bore and ream this hole to 2", the size of the largest expanding arbor I have.

 

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Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I think I'm my severest critic but so far this job has gone very well...

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The center bored and reamed to 2"

 

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In the course of doing the previous pump I noticed that the aluminum can get quite hot and slip on the expanding arbor. Usually it isn't much and hardly effects the diameter but when facing it can cause an uneven surface. The answer is to to put a spacer behind it so it can't move back. Usually I use some spacers from one of my horizontal mill arbors but I don't have a 2" arbor so I used the only thing I could find around the shop, a piece of 2" ID aluminum tubing, reamed and the ends faced off to make them square.

 

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I don't have a saw suitable for cutting this piece down so I took the easy, albeit time consuming route of turning it down. It is now about .035 too thick but I'm leaving the final cuts for tomorrow when the piece has cooled off.

 

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This morning I finished off the inside piece of the pump, taking the thickness down to the number I calculated and turning the OD to match the housing. I was aiming for a press fit but came up about .001 short so I'll have to use the Locktite glue again.

 

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But, I need both end plates. The input side was in the mill set up to drill a center hole exactly in the middle ow where the slot will go. The last time I used a center cutting end mill. It worked but I think it deflected slightly so I'm thinking that if I drill a hole to the finished depth I can plunge the end mill in without the deflection. It's just a guess...but worth trying.

 

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I also put a very shallow groove in the center piece. This is for the Locktite. I'm hoping it will grip but not gravitate to the ends.

 

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With all that done I assembled the pieces with these square profile O-rings. I believe they are hydraulic seals. In any case, if the measurements are correct they should give much more sealing surface than a round O-ring.

 

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With everything assembled I put the pump in my home-made hydraulic press. The idea here is to make certain that the center of the pump is in exactly the right place so that both seals are in contact with the surfaces.

 

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The Locktite takes 72 hours to set up so I can't do anything to the center of the pump until Sunday at the earliest. In the meantime I decided to make a stop for my big drill press. This will go around the quill and allow me to set a reasonably precise depth - something I cant do at present. I made one of these for the small drill press and it has worked well. I've been putting off making one for the big press but I need to be able to drill that pilot hole for the end mill precisely.

 

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I faced it, reamed it and turned the OK and then discovered I had a problem. The hole in the center has to be 2.630. That is larger than the hole in the center of either of my chucks so I can't bore through. I decided to set a stop on the lathe and bore it 1/4" short...when I have the ID correct I'll turn the piece around and cut off the bit on the end.

 

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Hello Joe,  You are sure doing everything in a very analytical method.  Your larger water pump, hang on to it as your next project may need a larger capacity water pump and you will have one built and on the shelve.  I do notice that most of your lathe tooling is of the older "rocker" style.  Good for you!  I have some quick change for the South Bend, but the old Lodge and Shipley 16"  uses the old rocker style tooling which I like using as well as the quick change stuff.  Work is nice for quick change, if your project has several processes that can be dropped in one after another to save time.  Keep up the good work!  Looking forward, when are you going to attach the Con rods?

Al

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My feeling is that with this one-off stuff the quick change tool post is of marginal use - if at all. That's especially true when you realize that my lathe is too slow to make much use of carbide so I'd have to make a whole new set of HSS tooling. It simply isn't worth the effort.

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I never could get the lantern tool post and rocker to work for me, I had to go to the QCTP.  I think machine work is an interesting reflection of one's patience.  The ability of Joe to get what he gets done using what he uses is, I think, a reflection of his patience... as my inability is a reflection of my lack of patience. :)  In addition, I believe the improvements I've made over the years are a direct reflection of my ability to become more patient.   Reading Joe's post and, in a sense, watching him work through problems has been very helpful for my machining growth.   I sure couldn't have gotten this far without it and I think I can go a lot further as well.  Can't wait to get back on the Metz!!

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After I finished boring I flipped the piece around to remove the end.

 

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Leaving me with a ring. Before I can finish this I needed to finish drilling the holes for the through bolts in the pump end plates since the mill was already set up for this.

Just about the first thing I did was make a mistake and move the rotary table 206 degrees rather than 216 degrees. It's not a deal breaker but it is annoying, Now I'll have to think of a way to plug the hole which, thankfully, doesn't go through.

 

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Then over to the drill press to drill through with a #25 drill.

 

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I then removed the top plate...

 

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and tapped the holes in the bottom plate.

 

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The top plate was then drilled for clearance.

 

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And the moment of truth...I found some 10-24 machine screws and put the two pieces together. Aside from my early goof, it worked better than it had a right to.

 

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9 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Joe,  You are sure doing everything in a very analytical method.  Your larger water pump, hang on to it as your next project may need a larger capacity water pump and you will have one built and on the shelve.  I do notice that most of your lathe tooling is of the older "rocker" style.  Good for you!  I have some quick change for the South Bend, but the old Lodge and Shipley 16"  uses the old rocker style tooling which I like using as well as the quick change stuff.  Work is nice for quick change, if your project has several processes that can be dropped in one after another to save time.  Keep up the good work!  Looking forward, when are you going to attach the Con rods?

Al

 

I don't think there will be a next project, at least not one on this level. I maintain a vague desire to get a mid to late 20s sedan, preferably a Franklin or a Cadillac (because I'll never be able to afford another RR) but first there will have to be a marked improvement in my financial position and I'll have to build a garage. Combined with all the other irons I have in different fires even this project is an indulgence.

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13 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

Reading Joe's post and, in a sense, watching him work through problems has been very helpful for my machining growth.   I sure couldn't have gotten this far without it and I think I can go a lot further as well.

 

I whole heartily agree with those comments. Joe's posts have been a great help to me too.

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I think anyone who even dabbles with machining is helped by Joes posts. Those who do more than the average home shop machinist really appreciate joes work and can relate to the time and the mental effort alone to do what he does. Catching one of his tricks or short cuts (of course I mean both in a positive way) and using on our own projects, learning something new is what it’s all about. Problem is with all our duly deservered praise, I heard joe needs to Purchase some larger hats for this upcoming winter!😂 (he actually made some comments to that effect)

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Cut it out guys!

The whole purpose of this thread is to demonstrate that seemingly insoluble problems can be solved with patience and ingenuity. You've all demonstrated the same in your restoration threads. I just happen to like doing machine work and have been lucky enough to be able to gather the tools. Every enthusiast likely has his own talents and we've much to learn from each other. It's the practice of sharing our techniques so we can all excel at what we do that makes this a worthwhile exercise.

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This morning I worked on the center of the pump in order to give it a trial assembly. First I drilled center holes for the two brass machine screws that will lock the center in place.

 

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Then over to the drill press where I have clearance for the tap.

 

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And back on the mill to mill flutes in the ring.

 

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This is a 1/4" ball end cutter, slightly larger than the diameter of the cap screws to allow for clearance.

 

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I was very tense doing this but it worked without a hitch.

 

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The ends attached perfectly so I can now go on to finish the center section.

 

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I'm debating using the socket head screws. If I don't,  I'll polish the heads and give them a slight crown so they look like the type that was available in 1910-1912. I have a couple of those from one of my machines to copy.

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Today I put the center of the pump back in the lathe and bored it out to 3". This is to minimize the amount I'll have to remove with the boring head and so that I can see the bottom end of the hole for the outlet tube while working on it.

 

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It then went into the mill to bore the hole for the outlet tube. The first step was to use a center cutting end mill to get a flat surface.

 

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Then it was center drilled...

 

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And drilled through. Even if the end mills are center cutting, they work better if they don't have to cut in the center.

 

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Then I went through the hole with progressively larger end mills and discovered I'd made error in my calculations. The center section is 1.062 thick. I had planned to put a 1" hole in here but that would leave only .031 as a wall thickness and if I was off a little on the centering - which is entirely possible - I could easily ruin the piece. I decided to make a stepped outlet tube, 1" at the top and 7/8" at the bottom. The wall thickness of the lower part of the tube will only be 1/16" but that is inconsequential since it will be permanently embedded in the center section. You can see here how little wall thickness I had left. When I took it out of the mill and measured it I found I could have gotten away with the 1" hole but I wasn't prepared to take a chance on ruining it at this stage.

 

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This time around are you going to screw the pipe into the side of the pump body, rather than have it welded?

 

The more I get into machining the more admiration I have for machinists. I am finding it much harder than carrying out bodywork, electrical and mechanical repairs. It certainly gets the old grey brain matter working overtime!

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I considered that and may still do it but I was also going to look into a place in East Providence called "microweld". I have a friend who had them weld some very fussy - and tiny lock parts for a British shotgun. They specialize in die repair.

 

But not that you mention it, screwing them in might be easier for me.

 

j

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I am no expert, but the problem I see with aluminium welding is you need a lot of heat as the aluminium conducts the heat so quickly and this I assume makes the weld bead wider than with steel. Looking at their website, Microweld have been around for over half a century, so they sound if they are worth talking to about the pump welding.

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That was a good idea. I had though about screwing the tube in but couldn't see how I could start the tap and don't want the threads on the end to show, which they would on a round piece. But, you got me thinking. Since the hole is counterbored, if I make the lower piece a little smaller the threads will disappear. The lower hole is about .885 and this is within .001 of the size for a 15/16-20 thread. Until I looked, I'd no idea if such a tap was readily available but it turns out it is so I've ordered one. I even paid extra to get it sent from a US seller because I don't want to wait a month for it to come from Hong Kong. Making the tube will be more complicated but that is lathe work and I only run the risk of ruining that part - before it goes in - if I make an error. I will still have to weld in the inlet tube but that one is fairly straight forward and there is no critically tight area to worry about.

 

jp

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Posted (edited)

After I ordered the tap I made this fixture to center the pump in the mill when I bore the offset hole.

 

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The hole in the center is 1". I will align that with a piece of 1" stock in an end mill holder, then replace the holser with the boring head.

 

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I also made a guide to align the hole in the center with the tap. It has to be straight and, since the piece is round, that isn't all that easy to do. I'll thread it in the drill press using a piece of 1/2" bar to align the hole.

 

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I started on the outlet tube as well but can't finish it until the tap arrives.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

This will be the outlet tube. It's fairly complicated but if it works it will be a major improvement - and save me having to worry about the welding.

 

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Turned in 3 steps... 1" where it projects from the pump, 15/16 where I will thread it and .877 for the area below the thread. I only plan to thread it about 1/2".

 

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I also did the other end. I can't thread it until the 15/16 tap arrives and I can make a threading gauge. I'm going to leave it on the mandrel until the threading is finished.

 

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Having gone as far as I could with that, I went back to the depth stop for the drill press. The slot is 1-3/8" wide but I don't have an end mill that size so I did it with a 1" end mill.

 

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Then over to the drill press to make holes for the soft-tip set screws.

 

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It came out pretty good - certainly good enough for this sort of work.

 

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I then set up the inlet end of the pump to drill.

 

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The hole is about .020 short which isn't a problem. In fact, I'd have done that on purpose if I had thought of it.

 

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Tomorrow I can mill the slot for the water inlet...then maybe the hole for the inlet tube.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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The hole is reamed so it is very accurate. The mandrel has a very slight taper. It's pressed in with an arbor press so it is friction only. This is the most accurate way to hold something for turning but it depends on very accurate surfaces to begin with. I also have "expansion mandrels: which can be used if the hole isn't perfectly sized.

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Today I milled the water inlet slot.

 

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I'm not happy with the finish. I still have a lot to learn about milling deep slots (it's 1-1/2" deep) in aluminum but thankfully it doesn't show and won't have any effect on how it works.

 

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I no sooner finished that and the 15/16-20 tap came in so I set it up in the drill press. The alignment tool I made yesterday (or the day before) worked perfectly. I was concerned about this because the hole is about .005 too small but it didn't seem to make a difference, probably because aluminum is so soft.

 

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You can't really see them here but the threads look to be perfectly centered.

 

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Then back to the inlet plate. The next operation is to make the hole for the inlet tube. It is 1-1/4" inches in diameter and must be exactly in the middle. I located the middle and then the measurement from the back of the plate. Tomorrow I'll drill and then finish bore this but it is a fussy job and there's no point of pushing the envelope.

 

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18 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

The mandrel has a very slight taper. It's pressed in with an arbor press so it is friction only.

 

That is a useful tip. Thanks Mike

PS: So my bars that I have turned down on the lathe when the tailstock was not quite in line could be called mandrels! :)

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