Jump to content

My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project


Recommended Posts

That's good to hear. Yes, I also think one of the threads is collapsed. So far, it's gone well. Actually, so well I fully expect them to come out just fine. The real trick here was to get the angles on the tool and the width of the face correct. 360 brass will thread better than the steel though I've no complaints about how that came out.

 

j

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, edinmass said:

 

 

We use it mostly for polishing shafts and making spacer and such.

 

Good. That is about what it's good for. I don't doubt you could do this stuff...it is just a matter of practice but I understand that if you don't have a demand for that sort of thing it isn't worth the effort. I have the same reaction to welding... I don't need it much and when I do need it I don't want the sort of job I'd do. It makes more sense to send the work to someone who has the tools and the experience. I'm sure I could learn to do it and I may have to at some point but until then it's a skill I can live without.

 

30" swing...wow. That is a substantial machine. I wouldn't mind having such a machine myself but I have no place to put it and I'd probably only use it about once every 5 years.

 

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It was forty years old, like new, and had bad coils on the switches......which were no longer available. If it had fifty hours on it, I would be surprised. We bought it for 250 dollars..........im sure it was worth two grand in scrap. We had a hell of a time moving it, and placed it in the building where we can leave it when we sell it.......I'm too old to move s 7 ton lathe now.......I wound the coils and wired back together myself.......took about 40 hours. Hell, the three phase motor must be worth 2 grand even today.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

No, I hadn't seen that picture. Thanks.

I pressed on with the sump bolts today. First trimming all the pieces to the exact length - 14 will be 1-1/4 and 4 will be 1/3/4.

 

IMG_3159.JPG.34ce93cce36c0d3d24218a7c4325cf8a.JPG

 

I made the blanks identical because it makes all of the subsequent operations a lot easier. Next I turned them down to 3/8". To do this I set a stop in the collet and a stop on the bed of the lathe.

 

IMG_3160.thumb.JPG.5d9c6515525f9d683dd3b9065ff91a7e.JPG

 

Then, using the dial indicator rather than the graduated scales on the lathe I got the correct dimension on the round part.

 

IMG_3161.thumb.JPG.de1c797793c58e5fc820636581e6cf3a.JPG

 

The beauty of this is that once you know what the settings are, it isn't necessary to measure each one. I checked the second one and it matched the first so I went on to do the remaining 18... (18 needed and 2 spares). It still took hours but unlike working on original parts it didn't leave me washed out from the tension.

 

IMG_3162.thumb.JPG.6dd2288b512dd73f41f78b597981a344.JPG

 

The lathe tool I used has a very slight radius on the end. I used it because it gives a consistently good finish where if I'd used a pointed tool it would have been a little rougher. Butm as a result there is a tiny fillet under the head of the bolt that has to be removed.

 

IMG_3163.thumb.JPG.0a374bb8e4debc57c1c87c835ca4ccbf.JPG

 

Next I'm going to make a little holder for the bolts so I can cut the relief for the threads, chamfer the ends and thread them. The hex stock isn't perfectly uniform so if you take it out of the collet and put it back in, and don't put it back the exact same way, it will run out slightly. I should have marked one flat and the collet but forgot to...but I think this next piece will compensate for that and I would have had to do it in any case because chamfering the ends of the bolts when they stick out so far from the collet might bend them slightly. For this I'm using the Harding collets that were original to the lathe. I don't use them much but they are bigger than the 5C so a 1" bar will go all the way through. The 5C collets are a lot more flexible in that all sorts of shapes like hex and square are readily available and cheap. Also, this lathe stood outside in the weather for a good ten years and when I took it apart to get it back in operation the collet adapter was rusted solid in the spindle...so It isn't in the best condition.

 

IMG_3164.thumb.JPG.4d34c505f7b18e335ea9da554f8e74e9.JPG

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

First thing this morning my neighbor came over and dropped off the casting for the bracket I made last week (or was it two weeks ago)? I'm pleased with this and my pattern-making skills are clearly improving.

 

IMG_3165.JPG.7dd68930b992d248ce1b4c0834238387.JPG

 

I then went back to the sump bolts since I want to finish those now that I've started them. In order to hold them in the lathe I made a little aluminum split bushing...3/8 ID and 3/4 OD so I can hold them by the shank and eliminate the run out that comes from using the hes.

 

IMG_3166.thumb.JPG.19c4f7c0ebbf140d7fae60fef81a035a.JPG

 

I put them all back in the lathe and cut a strong chamfer on the ends.

 

IMG_3167.thumb.JPG.0eb3db49d68b2feab5f383cb6698b0bd.JPG

 

IMG_3168.JPG.86a7a77f4eae17644853b2ccb2d854ba.JPG

 

Then set up the grooving/cut off tool to put the relief in for the end of the threads using the dial indicator so get the depth exact.

 

IMG_3169.thumb.JPG.6b048653bb4c0ee071c93cf38ca29d4c.JPG

 

And right about the time I finished this I took a break and helped a friend solve a plumbing problem at his house.

 

IMG_3170.thumb.JPG.661fcabcb88f8e571dacdca3516d3a90.JPG

 

After which we had a beer and I decided I'd better not start the threading...so I set the lathe up but I'll do it tomorrow.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

I took it easy today...I started threading the sump bolts and ruined the first one. That's why I made an extra so although it annoys me it isn't a major problem. First I did the 4 long bolts...

 

IMG_3171.thumb.JPG.27e141d9bc71384f6f29e3c1264c7340.JPG

 

Then the short ones. I put the first one in the sump with a washer and lock washer to make certain I'd gotten the measurements right. They couldn't have been better. It couldn't have fit better.

 

IMG_3172.JPG.f6488c5824404a9ac1ca7c45c6142acd.JPG

 

An then went on to do more. They take about 15 to 20 minutes each so something as simple as this involves a lot of time.

 

IMG_3173.thumb.JPG.59b6d6aaf529ce8e2ea4f71525b73cd9.JPG

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Very nice. When your done people will look at your restoration and say........shxt.......my car is missing stuff and has the wrong hardware. The under hood is going to be Pebble Beach quality.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ed. That's high praise indeed but I don't think this is really a "restoration". It's in an odd place between "rebuild" and "manufacture" but it certainly isn't an attempt to replicate the work of the original maker. I can't see going to an effort like this to purposely replicate some fairly shoddy work. I think it would be different if I'd been able to start with a "best" quality car. Any of the great early makes would have been fine but if I'd waited until I could afford one of those, even in the condition this one was in, I might still be waiting. I'm not too old to do the work but I am too old to put things off for 10 years...

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I finished the threading this morning. In order to make this a little easier I single point the threads to within about .007 of the finished depth then run a re-treading die over them. It has to go on straight...putting it on crooked is how I ruined the first one, but if you are careful and come close to the correct depth the die will cut the rest and deburr the threads at the same time.

 

IMG_3174.thumb.JPG.1c32f3b2f70b52de59fc596e0c5bb995.JPG

 

IMG_3175.thumb.JPG.c1c996abc8bd7f9f096932b34312d6b2.JPG

 

I then dumped out my big can of antique bolts - most saved from machine's I've repaired or scrapped over the years - to find a period 3/8-16 to measure the head. It is a nominal 3/8 thick with a slight crown and no chamfer on the bottom edge. Modern bolts have a head that is about 1/4" thick and flat. Here's a modern bolt, the old one and the new one I've just made. You can see why just grinding off the grade marking doesn't really disguise anything...

 

IMG_3177.JPG.1ebba92de0658d7343efbdd1e702dc05.JPG

 

I ought to have cut the blanks about 1/4" shorter. Because I didn't, trimming them took a fair amount of time. I get the correct measurement with the first one and set a stop on the lathe bed. Then it is just a matter of jogging the saddle down a little at a time until it hits the stop.

 

IMG_3178.thumb.JPG.505187b584c47aa69bf2ff8b3bdcae29.JPG

 

I'm almost done. All that is left is to put the crown on them.

 

IMG_3179.JPG

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

This morning I set the radius tool up to make the crown on the heads of the bolts. The crown is fairly shallow, the total depth at the edge is only .050 but it is very noticable.

 

IMG_3180.thumb.JPG.2440ad47316582d4948bf9c5fca33d16.JPG

 

all done...

 

IMG_3181.thumb.JPG.334813b64fa6611a2d4065470021e13f.JPG

 

And just see what they will look like, I put two in. The difference between the old style and the new is striking. I won't be using them as I go forward so I've boxed them up with their washers & lock washers and put them on the shelf until I get to the final assembly.

 

IMG_3182.thumb.JPG.01ec8945feaee9490716c51e2a89c4e8.JPG

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites

The difference between the old style and the new is striking.

 

Or... one is correct and looks appropriate and the other looks terrible.  :)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I think it's only terrible when you know what it should look like. I'd say that 90% of owners fit into that group and, realistically, making bolts is something only a few people are in a position to do. I think I have almost a week in these - say maybe 20 hours. At $50 per hour (which would be an extremely low shop rate) that's $1000 for 18 bolts...that is almost $58.00 per bolt. I think you could find someone with an old screw machine who could make a few hundred for that price...heck, if I had the machine I'd think about doing it myself.

Edited by JV Puleo
typo (see edit history)
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I think it's only terrible when you know what it should look like. I'd say that 90% of owners fit into that group and, realistically, making bolts is something only a few people are in a position to do. I think I have almost a week in these - say maybe 20 hours. At $50 per hour (which would be an extremely low shop rate) that's $1000 for 18 bolts...that is almost $58.00 per bolt. I think you could find someone with an old screw machine who could make a few hundred for that price...heck, if I had the machine I'd think about doing it myself.

Joe, theres a guy in NH that made up tons of old school head bolts like this years back. He sold some through the FS I think and maybe a couple other antique car parts places but he said the demand was little so he stopped producing them. He had boxes of them a he put them on Ebay. I contacted him about head bolts for my Olds and it turned out he had them and I bought them for around $6 each shipped if I remember right. I had them in two days. He currently owns a bicycle shop but I'll be damned if I can remember his name. I'll have to look through my notes and my old ebay purchases. The were made with rolled threads if I remember correctly which I understand is supposed to be the correct way to make head bolts. I believe they are grade 5 also.

 

UPDATE: Found the info: CR Machine, Rindge NH (603) 899-9871

Edited by chistech (see edit history)
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I think it's only terrible when you know what it should look like. I'd say that 90% of owners fit into that group and, realistically, making bolts is something only a few people are in a position to do. I think I have almost a week in these - say maybe 20 hours. At $50 per hour (which would be an extremely low shop rate) that's $1000 for 18 bolts...that is almost $58.00 per bolt. I think you could find someone with an old screw machine who could make a few hundred for that price...heck, if I had the machine I'd think about doing it myself.

 

 

We have reproduced thousands of bolts for Pierce Arrow cars..........we did them out of stainless on a CNC machine. It was an interesting process. Buying the stock in 20 foot lengths, shipping it, machining it........before we did it, we made test samples and put them through a torque and failure test. Took a few tries to get the material correct. We ended up with new bolts that performed better than the factory ones. The advantage is after polishing you never chip or have rust issues. Ultimately we manufactured them near the supply source for the stock material. Shipping them after production saves about 35 percent on weight, and a ton of savings on the oversize material. We are on our third and last production run....we are getting too old to keep doing all these projects and getting our own stuff done. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes...I've put my own projects on the back burner for years while I worked on other people's things. When I was 59 I decided that if I didn't get to work on something of my own soon, I'd be to old to ever see it completed. Now I have a rather selfish attitude - rarely doing outside work and only for friends. This car is a huge project but I expect I'll see it done some day - then I can go back to doing other things if I still have it in me. Actually, a number of refinements to jobs I've done have come to me as my skills improve so I expect I have enough here to keep me busy into my 90s.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Over the weekend I built half of a set of drawers for the micrometers, taps and other small bits that are starting to overwhelm me. I wast too much time looking for things I know I have. I'm not a great woodworker but it should come out sturdy, if not beautiful. But, I can only do so much of that before I want to get back to the main project. Today I worked on finishing the casting that will hold the oil lines in place.

 

I milled the narrow end just enough to gt it flat. This is to make a reference surface. I then bolted it down to the table and used a fly cutter to get a flat surface on the other side.

 

IMG_3185.thumb.JPG.54d898c2546c3f7a9c0aec6d23e452aa.JPG

 

This part is supposed to be 3/8" thick so once flat I took it down to the finished measurement.

 

IMG_3186.thumb.JPG.39c31c7202b7d8c2d1ec83a8af023e97.JPG

 

The fly cutter is slow but it gives a relatively good surface. Although I didn't photograph it, I later lapped this surface to get it perfectly flat. the fact that it took relatively little lapping indicates how flat and smooth it was to begin with. I then marked it for a 15/16 hole in the center.

 

IMG_3187.thumb.JPG.830b171b4b663618a221149274cbf40f.JPG

 

Drilled it to 3/4"

 

IMG_3188.JPG.7ee9ec2ee677d10ca9ceb2ce20220b0b.JPG

 

And finished the hole with an end mill.

 

IMG_3189.thumb.JPG.9429c1c6e75b30ac5cfce07f0b4a9d09.JPG

 

so far, so good. You can see that the stack of Banjo fittings fits as it is supposed to.

 

IMG_3190.thumb.JPG.1586bfca416ddd0cc3d6b6f1a4c447b6.JPG

 

Next, I drilled the mounting holes.

 

IMG_3191.thumb.JPG.a4eac943a930f43f9bea861ab3297015.JPG

 

And bolted the pieces to the crankcase. It's high...which was intended as I have no good way of measuring this perfectly ahead of time.

 

IMG_3192.thumb.JPG.074d5512bc54e39443143f202959e8d4.JPG

 

I used the fly cutter again to remove material from the small end of the bracket with the big end bolted directly to the table. That way I am certain the two surfaces are parallel. I took off .150 and tried it...then took off an additional .050.

 

IMG_3193.thumb.JPG.635b4b912aedb92c4c7f6dad6d38004d.JPG

Edited by JV Puleo
typos (see edit history)
  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Since I know it fits  I put a few finishing touches on the bracket by putting some holes in the vertical part. Not that it needs them, these are just to make the part look a bit more like I would imagine it would if made in around 1910. I laid the holes out by hand with a little scale. Since they serve no actual function it wasn't important to make them extremely precise.

 

IMG_3194.thumb.JPG.b82c8c33e86514357222ba018dde986a.JPG

 

A 1" hole in the center and 4, 9/16 holes around it.

 

IMG_3195.thumb.JPG.175f19823f9a261c243a64cb7bef7d46.JPG

 

IMG_3196.thumb.JPG.1f6afdfca55622578494167e6098b80a.JPG

 

I then moved on to the rear banjo fitting which I couldn't finish until I had the bracket in hand. I connected it to the Banjo on the bracket with a piece of 1/2" rod wanting it to be as straight and stiff as I could get it. The marked the place where I have to put another projecting arm on the Banjo...I don't know why the picture is so out of focus either except that it is not a particularly good camera.

 

IMG_3197.thumb.JPG.a6a45d1ba4f3e824f19e170c9e3a9f60.JPG

 

I set it up to drill and tap the Banjo...

 

IMG_3198.thumb.JPG.674dfb26b888861477a2ad8c80f23a63.JPG

 

And somehow made an error - though I don't know how I did it. The hole is not centered in the Banjo. Fortunately, it's the "starter" hole and smaller than the finished one. It was getting near the end of the day so I though I'd best leave fixing this for tomorrow. I'm reasonably certain I can make it right.

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Today I had a photo session for a book I'm working on so I didn't get much shop time but I did manage to get most of the "fix" done on the Banjo I nearly ruined. I set it up in the mill and took the hole out with an end mill.

 

IMG_3199.thumb.JPG.a6b0be643d89fa64e45ee52740c90d5c.JPG

 

Then started to thread it - and discovered it was too big. How I wondered...so I looked at the end mill again. It turns out it was incorrectly labeled 5/8  when it was 11/16 so now the hole was too big.

 

IMG_3200.thumb.JPG.240cbcbc34dabb4501f271a909c10f4d.JPG

 

I didn't really want to start over so I checked my thread charts and it turns out an 11/16 hole is right for a 3/4-16 thread and I had that tap.

 

IMG_3201.thumb.JPG.be61a0fe53399847834040831bc22328.JPG

 

This necessitated making the projecting piece over but that is a lot less work than making the entire thing over.

 

IMG_3202.JPG.a730b23879934572b9d94a0398b7f3d2.JPG

 

When it was threaded I smeared the threads with soldering flux and screwed it on as tight as I could by hand.

 

IMG_3203.thumb.JPG.bf264eb39512d9a89393f887d3a8ad9d.JPG

 

Then soldered it in place. The solder appears to have traveled around the threads perfectly so I think this is at least as good the others.

 

IMG_3205.thumb.JPG.582150aff796c0b3e3f3775758980c1d.JPG

 

And... when assembled you can't tell which is which so I think I've managed to pull off a clever fix. This still has to be bored out to 13/16 and the inside groove cut.

 

IMG_3206.thumb.JPG.d1a1291a841cc776f6d874bf2aff8b1e.JPG

 

But I'm taking tomorrow off to go and look at some minor issues with the 1920 Cadillac my new "old car" friend bought. I really like cars in original condition but we all know they have got to have some issues. I am pretty certain the water pump leak is caused by electrolytic corrosion - it needs the battery box fixed and some of the lights aren't working. Also, I'd like to relegate the electric fuel pump it has to "backup" and fix the original pressure system. He did buy an Airtec low pressure pump (the one that was on the car when he bought it put out WAY too much pressure) but I'd like to see it maintain 2 lbs rather than the 3 it now has. The gauge goes from 1 to 4 so 2 lbs is probably the optimum pressure. Or...is that wrong? Ed would probably know but I assumed the gauge is measuring air pressure in the tank. Why does it react to fuel pressure? I confess that 40 years ago I did the same thing with my 26 Cadillac (not knowing any better and taking the word of a local "old timer").

Edited by JV Puleo
typos (see edit history)
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

My 1914 Caddy ran around four pounds......which was too much, in my opinion. For safety on my car I put a pressure relief valve hidden that I could just pull a hidden wire to vent the pressure in thr event of an emergency. . In the LIKELY EVENT of a fire under hood, you should have two HAYLON extinguishers in the car at all times. Also, I would NEVER run a cork float.........they often sink while driving.......and poof, another chance at a BIG fire. Another Cadillac I ran had a pressure relief valve that vented at 3 psi automatically .......so it prevented over pressure. Often times on these cars, the tank pressure creeps up over time while driving....causing running problems due to excessive pressure. These systems need a good technician who understands safety, and should be adapted for fire considerations. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ed...that is good advice. I'll have a look at it tomorrow but I'll impress on the fellow the need for the fire extinguishers. He's no fool and I am certain will take the advice.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I finished the new Banjo fitting...first boring it out to 13/16

 

IMG_3207.thumb.JPG.8710d0139fcdf5783e4492e4baef6193.JPG

 

Then milling the inside groove.

 

IMG_3208.thumb.JPG.17b942419794d94de8958f312e00af1d.JPG

 

And tried it on the engine to see if I got the angles right. It fits...

 

IMG_3209.thumb.JPG.aad0fff5dee208b4ca95fef49f2801cc.JPG

 

So I cut two sort pieces of tubing and assembled it with this gate valve. This will allow the hand priming pump to direct oil into the oiling system rather than back into the sump. I've already tested this on the oil pump test stand so I know it works. I'm very skeptical of the inline ball valves I could find but this type opens at a very low pressure and, when open, the passage through it is big enough so that the valve will not be an obstruction.

 

IMG_3211.thumb.JPG.14ad683eadc831537486a535e0c1cade.JPG

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I've been struggling with the cabinet I designed to hold some of my small tooling. I guess I can confess to not being much of a cabinet maker...it's coming out ok but certainly isn't something fit for any place but the shop. While working on that - since I have to wait for glue to dry - I finished all the connections for the oiling system.

 

With the main connection done, I put the hand priming pump on the stand...

 

IMG_3212.thumb.JPG.f3fdce1cc27023975077faa31f7c7714.JPG

 

My system here is to make all the pieces and assemble them. When I'm sure its right I take them apart and put soldering flux on all the joints. They have to be soldered with everything tightened up. Essentially, I'm using the engine as a soldering jig.

 

IMG_3213.thumb.JPG.b9feb27f875b0b665a11852b7325face.JPG

 

I flipped it over to do the last connection...

 

IMG_3215.thumb.JPG.e6c793b86af959602a82c74b534ea161.JPG

 

Then flipped it back and did the other lines. The last task was to tighten all the connections and put some pugs in the drain holes. Tomorrow I'll probably buy 4 quarts of cheap oil and try to regulate the dip stick.

 

IMG_3216.thumb.JPG.cb513ba2018946a54c1122a3ea6da57b.JPG

 

I also noticed that on the test stand the pump had to raise the oil about 14" - which it did just fine. On the engine it will have to raise it less than 6" which probably means it will register oil pressure faster than it did when I was testing it and that wasn't anything to be concerned about. The hand priming pump may not really be needed...but we'll have to wait and see about that. It certainly can't hurt.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Regulating the dip stick... I turned the engine over and poured in 1 quart of oil.

 

IMG_3217.thumb.JPG.da8a84f2d87a170d0915de4c3ececd5e.JPG

 

On the first quart I got a good measurement. When I added a quart it proved more difficult. the design of the dip stick - with a flat milled on it wasn't working well. I took a measurement with a wooden dowel and that worked but it was smaller than the hole it was passing through so I decided I needed a modification. I cut the flat milled portion off the dip stick planning to add an extension that is only 3/8" in diameter...the size of the dowel.

 

IMG_3218.thumb.JPG.3177acc1109c8c1462780e02a2a03049.JPG

 

To do this I had to turn the end down to 7/8" so it would fit in a collet and re-knurl it.

 

IMG_3219.thumb.JPG.94d8211d2db5a752241bf6e32398e991.JPG

 

Then it was drilled and the extension inserted and soldered in place.

 

IMG_3220.thumb.JPG.abd436b32e4da5bd6532c8cd1770fc47.JPG

 

It was still hard to get a good measurement. The oil is too clean and barely showed against the brass. I ended up spraying it with flat black paint. That worked reasonably well and I assume that when I'm not trying to measure clean oil it won't be as much of a problem. At 3 quarts (the amount mentioned in the original owner's manual) the oil level was just below what I think is the front drain hole while it it just above the rear drain hole. I though it might be out of level but it turned out it was dead on so I suspect this is just another example of Mitchell-Lewis precision. I have no way of calculating how much oil will be held in the oil manifold and pump so I am guessing the nominal volume is 3 quarts but it might take a little more the first time it's filled. It doesn't show well here but you can see the drain hole in the upper fight corner in this picture as well as the level in the bottom of the sump.

 

IMG_3221.thumb.JPG.233566cada53e8e71a0f80bfbc897bf9.JPG

 

The dipstick finished. Because the sump is barrel shaped, the distance between the lines should get shorter with each quart - which they do. It isn't as precise as I'd like but it is a lot better than no way of measuring the level at all aside from those drain holes. because I'll use oil control rings (which weren't invented until the 20s) slightly over-oiling is not the problem it was in period. My guess is that it will take some experimenting to find out exactly what the optimum level is and if I have to I can always make another dipstick.

 

IMG_3222.thumb.JPG.ad0be28010c4ae343adebe298fa60409.JPG

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

On the first quart I got a good measurement. When I added a quart it proved more difficult. the design of the dip stick - with a flat milled on it wasn't working well. I took a measurement with a wooden dowel and that worked but it was smaller than the hole it was passing through so I decided I needed a modification.

 

Joe, perhaps your machining is too good, and the oil is not 'sticking' to the dip stick. I might be incorrect on the following, but I think that some dip sticks have cross hatching on the flat portion to hold the oil.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe the two slightly different level holes indicate the correct level? Oil should run out one, but not the other?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe you can use that cool knurling tool to knurl the proper level once you figure it out.  The oil will surely stay in there long enough to see it.

Beautiful work, as always!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I had a case of the slows today but did finish the last drawer for the cabinet I'm making...I only have two corner clamps so I had to make them one at the time and wait for the glue to dry. I'm not a cabinet maker but it will serve it's purpose. three of these drawers are already full of micrometers. I've some pulls with a place for a label coming but for now I just put a screw in each one to pull it out.

 

IMG_3223.thumb.JPG.840fc3f3e8cc8206eecb368069b37d55.JPG

 

Then I took Mike and Gary's advice and knurled the end of the dip stick. It made a significant difference.

 

IMG_3224.thumb.JPG.bea5e3529b2bee64867799edc9cfd3cc.JPG

 

Yesterday I noticed a minor leak and this morning I found another one. The first was on the banjo at the front of the engine, the second at the bracket at the rear of the engine. I drained the oil, flipped it over and re-soldered the front connection.

 

IMG_3225.thumb.JPG.1fb668fb13c93f1ffae3301958a0a278.JPG

 

IMG_3226.thumb.JPG.b8c6ed28b248cfed4fd1972eb32d04b3.JPG

 

When I looked at the other leak I realized I'd neglected to put the fiber washers in so that was an extremely easy fix.

 

IMG_3227.thumb.JPG.c8528d0f532923a6ceb82490dadd406d.JPG

 

I filled it with oil...The only other issue was the hand pump, which didn't seem to be working at all. Then I realized that without being connected to the oil pump it was just sucking air when I worked it. I put my thumb over the hole as I withdrew the pump handle and promptly got a big puddle of oil on the floor...but at least it works properly. I finished this about 3 PM and it's about 5 now. In those two hours I can't see any sign of a leak anywhere but I'm leaving it overnight and will check in the morning. In fact, the brass stock for the acme nuts I'm making came in so I may leave this alone for a few days to make certain all the connections are good. None of the Banjo fittings leaked...not that I expected them to but it's still a relief to know they came out right.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

. . . . I'm not a cabinet maker but it will serve it's purpose. . . .

 

It looks pretty good to me. You can make me a cabinet anytime!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

When I came in this morning the first thing I did was check to see if it had leaked. I could feel no oil on any of the copper tubes or banjo fittings but the oil level in the flare fitting at the rear of the engine - which was just about flush with the top when I left last night - was down about 1/4". I don't know how much oil a column 7/16" x 1/4" is...it isn't much but I'll have to give that some thought. I suspect that the fiber washers I'm using for gaskets might be a tiny bit too hard or the diameter isn't optimum. I'll look into a slightly softer gasket but there is no such thing as an Edwardian car that doesn't leak so this isn't a major worry.

 

And, since you've all suffered through my acme thread experiment, I went on with that. I now have to make a holding fixture for a 1/4" HSS lathe bit so I can grind it to the acme thread profile. The 3/8" bit I made for the external thread worked perfectly but holding a much smaller piece is more difficult. I started by indicating this piece of 7/8" diameter drill rod. The fixture will be made of 7/8" square stock...

 

IMG_3230.JPG.80ad2126e00bb248663db81ffe76a26c.JPG

 

Then loosened two of the jaws. I always loosen the same two jaws when doing something like this....and Inserted the piece of square bar.

 

IMG_3231.JPG.b9e05e6f6e89a5f6a249f640c251255e.JPG

 

Then it was drilled and reamed to 7/16".

This isn't perfect but it will get me very close.

 

IMG_3232.thumb.JPG.321cd1f02d74b1dfc2fcf0a294af17d6.JPG

 

I inserted a piece of square hole sleeve...1/4" square on the inside, 7/16" round on the OD. I get those from a place called Green Bay Manufacturing. This was the same sleeve I used to put the square hole in the boring bar I made. I drilled and threaded for two set screws to hold it in place.

 

IMG_3233.thumb.JPG.70fec072b8cd5d0176a3ebabbf0e762c.JPG

 

And when I was all done decided it was too short. So, I started over and made a longer one. Since everything was set up this was not a distressing setback and the longer fixture will be much easier to hold in the grinder fixture.

 

IMG_3234.JPG.5a6e8635628179dff6fa1337358716fd.JPG

 

In fact, I like this idea so much that rather than go on to the grinding I made another with a 3/8" square sleeve. I have never been good a grinding lathe bits. Most of those I use are from a lot I bought on ebay years ago. I stone them but getting the right angles by hand is a skill learned over years and I haven't the time to learn it. Using a fixture and setting the angles perfectly will be far more effective.

 

IMG_3235.thumb.JPG.21ce6f5e0c7e5e9eef521ad96d2c11fb.JPG

 

I may even make one for 5/16" even though I don't have much call for that size. It's so much easier when all the setup is done.

 

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I inserted a piece of square hole sleeve. . .

 

Joe, yet another new thing I have learnt from your excellent and informative posts.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Mike. I stumbled on the square hole sleeves while searching for acme threaded rod about 6 or 8 years ago. I thought "what a good idea"...but it's only recently that I thought of a use for them. It's hugely cheaper than buying a square hole broach, especially when you only need it once in a great while.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Before going on with the acme nuts I made two more holding fixtures, one in 3/8" and the other, which I can't finish because I don't have the square hole sleeve, for 5/16".

 

IMG_3236.JPG.986b8bd303bc7d7a8555bb9a31d5b055.JPG

 

Then I put a 1/4" HSS lathe blank in the holding fixture and ground the acme taper. The grinder was still set up from the big tool so I knew the angles were the same.

 

IMG_3237.thumb.JPG.37bc43b4ccd695d99d74138265ebc01e.JPG

 

I put the 3-jaw chuck in the 4-jaw and indicated a piece of 2" bar.

 

IMG_3238.thumb.JPG.802751b01072d77efd0432ffb2b1537a.JPG

 

That gets me very close to centering the 2" hex. Certainly close enough for a nut.

 

IMG_3239.thumb.JPG.d158baf05ddbb90c697d1bd90c5b2b05.JPG

 

Drilled out and bored to 1.140...

 

IMG_3240.thumb.JPG.18894572b56d1b3eb7126a2219a493f9.JPG

 

The threading bit had to be cut down to about 1" because it has to pass through the hole.

 

IMG_3241.JPG.7b4b46d8323fa67b9b4fc4a29b9c6aa5.JPG

 

It went in a boring bar and I threaded the hole. I had a lot of trouble with this and for a time it looked as if I'd messed it up but I was taking such small cuts that I was able to get it working properly before I went too far.

 

IMG_3242.thumb.JPG.51f736213c99ec8eb2fadfa41277f21c.JPG

 

I stopped when the threading gauge went in.

 

IMG_3243.thumb.JPG.c889dd3e84188d21ae7a5b40a88bc716.JPG

 

Then took the 3-jaw off and centered the gauge to use as a holding fixture to face off the rough side of the nut.

 

IMG_3244.thumb.JPG.04dc09c7a8f3e7a60232d0aaa9022b73.JPG

 

The last step was to put the chamfers on. First one side then turn the nut around and do the other side.

 

IMG_3245.thumb.JPG.2c93666e2f07d98f8337e3c6ba65d862.JPG

 

It now appears to be done but tomorrow I'll mail it to Ted (Christech) to take over to his neighbor and check that it fits the machine. It would be a real gamble to make more of before I find out if it really fits.

 

IMG_3246.thumb.JPG.c140671b2ae073d5854cd8db1090247a.JPG

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

That surface grinder looks a lot like the old Cincinnati Tool Cutter Grinder I picked up awhile back.  Same type of fixture on the table.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I sent the acme nut off to be tested this morning and now I'm in one of my slumps that follow finishing something, wondering what to do next. I may take a break from the car and put my planer and vertical mill back together. One has been here 2 years and the other about a year and a half and I've yet to use either but I think both will be critical to doing a really good job with the connecting rods. I've put that off to the end because I wanted the experience and those are a part that cannot fail without causing critical damage. I did finish up another bit that has been taunting me for a long time. when I made the water tubes I wanted to use brass fittings - which is what I think would have been the case in 1910. I used to jut go to the hardware store for them...they are all standard sizes - but I've discovered they are no longer made and no longer easy to get. I used copper fittings but never soldered everything together in the hope of finding the right fittings. That was probably 2 years ago (I lose track of time on this) and I've managed to find all but a single brass "T" so I decided to make one out of a threaded pipe union. This is a lot of work and if I had to make all of them I'd forgo that detail and use the copper. I bored out a 1/2" brass fitting some time ago...but it's the right angle hole that is a challenge, To do this I set it up in the 4-jaw chuck and indicated it using a brass pipe nipple.

 

IMG_3247.thumb.JPG.822025d3b772c21a6220c833c7de3768.JPG

 

Then bored it to the right size - which takes all the threads out.

 

IMG_3248.thumb.JPG.8b28cab4bf4da4a70350cb9873250c6a.JPG

 

IMG_3249.thumb.JPG.af0ddc516744ff5b9bd4dff40adc033e.JPG

 

These are the pieces...The acme nut is for Ted's neighbor, for his buffing jack. I told him I'd do the job for my expenses and he could do some polishing for me...a job I really dislike.

 

IMG_3250.thumb.JPG.f86c6fc3a6ac6b238bf556b11ebe382f.JPG

 

This trading off jobs with friends is one of the best parts of doing this sort of work. Not everything has to cost a fortune. If you are willing to help others I've found that more often than not they are willing to help you. Everything doesn't have to have a dollar sign attached.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe I agree with what you say 50 years ago when I got into the cars people helped each other and gave each other parts,told them where cars where,went out of there way to help,trading is good as long as both parties are fair,just seems like it’s a way of the past unfortunately

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...