JV Puleo

My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

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Having given the Loctite in the center of the pump time to cure, today I set it up in the mill and drilled for two 10-24 screws. The Locktite is probably sufficent but were the center piece to come loose it would be a disaster. With these two screws in place that can't happen.

 

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Then I put a new register mark on the end pieces. This is because I've changed the design slightly since I made these.

 

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Then I tackled putting in the hole for the outlet tube. I must have measured this three different ways and it took me a long time to get the setup to where I was ready to try it. First I milled a flat surface where the hole will go.

 

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Then center drilled it and drilled a 1/2" hole to about the right depth. I'll be using a center cutting end mill but I find they work better if they don't really have to cut all the way to the center.

The toughest problem was that I have to goe in a specific depth and, with no movable quill, it's tough to do that while using the power feed up. I painted some Dychem on the face of the mill and scribed a line at 2-1/4". I'll use the power feed and stop it when it hits the line.

 

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I still had problems with it - nothing that will keep it from working but not quite as perfect a job as I'd hoped for. fortunately muy error won't effect the way it works and it won't show when it's done.

 

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Tomorrow I'll make the outlet tube. Then it is ready for welding after which I'll bore the inside.

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I agree, I don't think I will live long enough to get to the stage of Joe's quality of work!

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You wouldn't have thought so if you'd been in the shop today. I made a couple of bone-head errors. Fortunately, nothing I can't fix but I spent much of the day on the water outlet tube and now have to make it all over.

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2 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

You wouldn't have thought so if you'd been in the shop today. I made a couple of bone-head errors. Fortunately, nothing I can't fix but I spent much of the day on the water outlet tube and now have to make it all over.

We’ve all been in that club, me, more times than I want to admit. 

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I am pleased to hear that you also have 'bad days'. At least it proves your human!

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Some days are like that!  But some days e3verything "clicks".  A few years ago, I took an adult Ed. night class on wood working.  I wanted to build a perfect fitting two cylinder wooden coil box that would fit the readily available Model T coils.  No big deal huh....  We I am a metal worker, not a wood worker.  I came up with my measurements, messed around with the set-up to cut finger joints and was ready to give it a try.  The instructor bet me that I would mess up and end up building two, one junk and one keeper.  That comment bugged me!  (I am not used to planning for failure from the start.  I do know that failures do happen however and I know how that goes).  I ended up having lots of fun building the coil box and am very happy to say that I only built one box and it is a keeper.  Now like Mike has said, I have much more confidence with my wood working skills.  Boy am I off the subject of the Mitchell water pump, forgive me.  I am also going to give you a small break in the action and post a picture of the two cylinder coil box I built.  It is ready for the electrical fixtures, switch and mounting hardware.  While you are taking a break from the Mitchell water pump, share your thoughts on the best modern finish to use on the wood before any hardware is installed.  I am thinking Polyurathane.

Al

Pictures by and by.....

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I'm not convinced polyurethane is good. I'd be inclined to use a good spar varnish - like they did to begin with. After its set you can rub it out with rottenstone & linseed oil - again, like they did in period. I think we all tend to fall into thinking that "new" is better... it often isn't. Its just easier.

 

Today I re-made the water outlet tube. One of my bodges yesterday was forgetting to really tighten the tool holder holding the end mill that I bored the hole with. As a result, it ran out so instead of getting a nice 1.125 hole I had 1.140 - not a standard size at all.  I didn't have any of the right tube so I made a piece from aluminum bar.

 

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Turned down to the new OD and the relief cut for the thread.

 

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Then I threaded it...

 

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And checked it with the threading gauge I made a few days ago.

 

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It fits properly. Now it has to be welded in after which I'll machine the offset hole inside so the center and the tube are machined together.

 

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I finished this about 3:00 PM. Next is to make the hole for the inlet tube and that will be a tricky machining so I decided to do something in the office and leave setting that up for tomorrow morning.

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Good For You.  That pump is certainly taking shape!  Joe, here are a few pictures for a diversion for your water pump day.  I need to select a finish and get on with it!  The wood I chose is Red Oak.  I am happy the way this coil box turned out.  Now back to the pump.  Are you going to test run teh pump to make sure of flow with no heat or rubs?

Al

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I met a bloke at Lake St Catherine in Vermont. His boat was one of those '30s-50s wooden jobs with an inboard 4 cyl. side valve engine. He had found he needed 10 coats of polyurethane on his boat for it to last more than a couple of years.

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Posted (edited)

Nice job Al. I've had a few of them and your's is very convincing. Based on the old ones I've had, I go with a reddish colored stain and varnish.

I'll have to test the pump - just to find out if it works though I haven't given a test stand too much thought yet. I'll have to finish the machining first. I want to make sure it doesn't leak, if nothing else. I think that if it moves water I'm home free and that it won't require the hours of running on a test stand that I've given the oil pump.

 

Polyurethane has too "plastic" a look for me, plus, when it starts to peel there is no touching it up. You have to remove it completely and start over. It's unlikely a dash mounted coil box will see much weather so I doubt it needs a very durable finish.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Today I started on the hole for the inlet tube. First I had to find the exact center, 180 degrees from the register mark I made yesterday.

 

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I also did a test to see how the 1-1/4" end mill did at milling down and only 1/8" deep.

 

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That came out OK, so I set the piece up in the mill and drilled a center hole.

 

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I then drilled a hole so the end mill wouldn't have to cut to the center, put the big end mill in the machine and started milling. It didn't work. The piece slipped...

 

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And the end mill gouged the face of the end plate.

 

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That was rather disappointing. But, it's always wort trying to save the job so I took the piece back to the lathe to see if I could face most of the gouges out. The plate promptly unscrewed from the center which actually was an advantage because I took it off and put it back on front-to-back. This allowed me to face it much more precisely.

 

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I ended up taking about .080 off the face and I only have one small nick in the edge now. This was only possible because I was unable to mill the slot for the center to the depth I'd originally planned so that error made this fix possible. I also turned the center piece down - now that it was unattached this was much easier. Thankfully, there was enough thickness to do this. After turning it, I drilled the hole out larger to make room for a boring tool. I'm going to try to do it with the boring head.

 

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Because I faced off the outside, the hole for the tube and the groove in the back plate no longer align perfectly so I threw caution to the wind and put Locktite on the threads and screwed it back together in alignment. If all this works, I will have to have the welder put a bead around the center piece... I came up to the office for a cup of coffee and to post this - I will have to make something to align the new hole with the boring head and I may let this go until tomorrow when I'm rested.

 

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I guess no one can say I don't share my errors as well!

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Hello Joe!  Man...... aluminum can be a sticky mess to machine sometimes.  Sad to see your torment but thanks for sharing!  Looks like you have a good resolution to your dilemma.  Seems we have to do what we have to do sometimes, and that is your case.  Sleep well and attack again tomorrow.  Persistence will make you the victor.

Al

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I felt for you when I saw that photo! That may be your best lesson yet, for us who are just starting out learning machining. Thanks for showing us the photos. I personally will now be a lot more aware of the power of the milling machine and make sure I fix any work piece to the bed or the vice very securely. I hope everything works out OK in the end.

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Today I continued on with my rescue attempt on the part I nearly destroyed yesterday. first I made this little centering tool.

 

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And used it to center the hole I drilled yesterday directly under the spindle of the mill.

 

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Then I set up the boring head and started taking the hole out. It started at .820 and I have to go out to 1.250.

 

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I took very small cuts, only .025. Since the graduations on the boring head are actual diameter that was only a a .0125 cut but I wanted to put the leas possible strain on the work piece.

I was particularly concerned with the interrupted cut where it puts the groove in. The piece did vibrate a little but by the time I was down to the last two cuts I was starting to feel a tiny bit less tense.

 

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When I'd reached the finished diameter, I put a small flat on the plate. A fitting will screw on here and I thought it would be a good idea to give it a flat base to screw against.

 

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All in all, it came out pretty good although this was a nerve wracking job..

 

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I put a piece of aluminum tubing in the lathe for the inlet but aluminum tubing is not all that precise. The outside is usually a little big and the inside a little small. It isn't really round either. I made the piece up and tried it but by the time I'd made it round it was a little small. I'm going to make the tube from solid bar - that way I'll get the dimensions I want and, as luck would have it, the bar (that I ordered a few days ago) came in just before we closed up for the day.

 

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So, aside from the fact that one plate is .080 thinner than the other, it looks as if I've managed to save the part. I'll make the inlet tube and the fitting that goes on it and then take everything to the welder on Monday (I hope).

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Posted (edited)

 

 

I was going to make the water inlet tube today but I started thinking about it and decided to make the fitting that screws on to it instead.  I'll have to thread the tube and if I made the fitting first I can fit the threads that much more precisely. I started with a piece of 1-1/2 across the flats brass, faced it off and put a center hole in it using my tiny 3-jaw chuck. The hole in the chuck isn't big enough to drill through so I had to move over to the drill press.

 

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I drilled and reamed to 1". The finished size is 1-1/8 but I don't have an expanding arbor in that size and I need to turn both ends of this.

 

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Then back in the lathe to turn the ends.

 

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There are two different ODs, one for the threaded portion and the other for the copper water tube.

 

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With that done, I could indicate the round portion and bore it for the 1-1/8 reamer - not having a drill the right size.

 

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I then reamed it. 1-1/8 is the OD of 1" copper tubing.

 

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The tubing fit perfectly. My next problem was threading the other side and I was concerned that if I threaded it and soldered the tube in afterwards I ran the rist of having some of the solder get into the threads so I soldered the tube in first.

 

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Then bored it, removing all of the copper at the bottom end. Copper is miserable stuff to machine so I was relieved that this worked well. I used a sharp carbide boring bar (I rarely use carbide) and took light cuts. It bored better than I'd expected.

 

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When I had the right dimension I threaded it in the lathe.

 

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So... here's the finished fitting. Nothing went wrong with this job - a rare occurrence for me.

 

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If all goes well I'll make the matching water tube tomorrow and take the pieces to the welder on Monday.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I had - for me, a short day today. I made the water inlet tube from a bar of 1-1/2" aluminum.

 

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Drilled and reamed to 1"

 

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Then threaded for the fitting I made yesterday.

 

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This is how it goes together...

 

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It looks as if I can visit the welder tomorrow.

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I dropped the parts off with the welder this morning so now I'm at loose ends until they come back. I was able to work on another fix though.

The holes in the seal retainers don't fit my spanner perfectly. Rather than make them over, I though I'd try to take them out a bit although there is very little room to work with. The original holes were 1/8" so I bought this 4mm end mill. 1/8 is 3.17 mm so the difference is very small. Fortunately, the shank of the end mill just fit in a 1/4" collet - only because the collet has enough spring to close up tight.

 

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I actually lined this up by eye since my measurements weren't perfect the first time. I just need to open up the hole a tiny big but not hit the minor diameter of the thread.

In any case, it worked...

 

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Then I screwed one of the retainers into the plate that is still here and put it in the lathe to trim off flush with the surface.

 

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All this seems to have worked reasonably well. The holes in the retainers will have to be lapped so they are just a tiny bit bigger than 3/4" so as not to rub on the water pump shaft but I didn't want to do that until I'd fit them.

 

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While I'm waiting for the welding to come back I though I'd make a start on the impeller. I don't actually know the final dimensions so I'm making this big in all of them. Pattern making is not my strong point - if you want to see some really good patterns, look up Terry Harper's posts. First I made the hub...this is a piece of scrap oak and "'m drilling a 3/4 hole with a Forstner bit.

 

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Then turned round to 1-1/2 "

 

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Milling slots to hold the vanes in the end plate of the impeller.

 

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Then drilling the center to 1-1/2" to accept the hub.

 

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And glued together.

 

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I was going to let the glue dry overnight but, in for a penny, in for a pound...

I planed another piece of scrap for the vanes.

 

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And glued those in too.

 

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Tomorrow, when the glue is dry I'll try reducing the thickness of the end plate and truing up the outside diameter. I need to get some bondo to make the fillets at the base of the vanes and some rattle can primer to paint it with. The smoother the pattern the better it will come out of the sand and the smoother the casting.

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Posted (edited)

Looking good Joe! You are correct  - the smoother the better!  I usually seal with shellac, steel wool, prime, sand and finish coat. Also, don't forget draft and machining allowance. 

2-3 degrees works well. Durham's Water putty works well for fillets too. If you really want to get fancy freeman's Supply offers

traditional wax and leather fillets.

 

Here is a rather crappy representation of your pattern with draft.

 

 

 

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Edited by Terry Harper (see edit history)
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Thanks Terry. Actually, I decided I don't like this one. I know I can do better so tomorrow I'll try again.

 

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I got the welding back today. The bead is heavier than I'd hoped for but I'm told he had some problems with oil from the machining. It occurs to me that I have enough material to work with that I could grind the welds into a fillet. That would actually look better than a tiny bead. Does anyone here have experience using a Dremel tool on aluminum? The rule of thump in surface grinding is that you use a soft stone with hard materials and a hard stone with soft materials so I'm wondering what the best thing to get is. I can get ceramis "ball" grinding stones that look as if they do it but I thought it a good idea to ask first.

 

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I milled a slot in the fixture to accommodate the outlet tube.

 

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And then centered the piece to get the center of the fixture so I could make a register mark to line the center of the pump up with.

 

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And then set up the boring head. It was 4:30 by the time this was done so I'm leaving the boring for tomorrow.

 

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Hi

As a suggestion you can use a ball nose end mill to radius (5/16 dia?or to suit) the weld fillets Most can be done by mounting the item to a rotary table The fillet around the pipe section can be milled by using a dividing head Make sure you have the milling head on an angle to the work to see the end mill in contact with the fillet( not vertical to the work). Most ball end mill cutters are two fluted With Al the more flutes the better If you can only get two flutes take light cuts  Regards Len

 

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Joe, When I made the alloy rim sections to weld between the spokes on the 1899 Perks & Birch motor wheel tricycle, where they were missing, I had them TIG welded. Because the welder was welding new aluminium, into old cast aluminium, the welding was not perfect. I used dental drills in my Dremel type tool to carefully remove the excess weld. I had bought some stones for grinding aluminium but found that 'burr' worked better than the grinding stones.

 

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These are photos after welding, using the burrs, and before polishing.

 

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