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My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project


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I found an exploded view of the Cadillac water pump in the 1917 edition of Heldt. It looks as if I can fit a modern thermostat inside in place of the original one...which may still work but at 100 years old I wouldn't count on it.

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3 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I found an exploded view of the Cadillac water pump in the 1917 edition of Heldt. It looks as if I can fit a modern thermostat inside in place of the original one...which may still work but at 100 years old I wouldn't count on it.


 

Joe.....it’s just an old car......they are easy to fix..........shouldn’t take more than ten minutes and some bailing wire.

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Bailing wire is hard to come by these days. Just last week I rescued a roll of it from my cousin's fallen in barn where I found the motorcycles (that's really true!). It seemed "too good to throw away." But, I do think the modern old car mechanics rely on Duct Tape and JB Weld. That said, I've actually found a worthwhile use for the JB Weld steel putty...it's just the right consistency for making fillets in aluminum patterns. (Having said that, I've started using wax fillets which are even better.)

 

j

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With the OD of the gear and the area that rides in the bushing done I had to trim the ends to match the measurements I'd taken. This involved taking about .065 off the front and back of the piece. The front was relatively easy.

 

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I also put the chamfer on the edges.

 

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Holding the piece to do the other end proved easier than I'd expected...I used the hex collet to hold it from the screwed-in projection.

 

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Both of them trimmed. One came out .002 short but that is hardly measurable.

 

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I then drilled and tapped these for the set screws that will retain the shaft.

 

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There are two set screws in each piece. They will align with notches milled in the shaft so once tightened the shaft is going nowhere and, should someone want to renew it in the future it will be easy to remove it and press a new one in.

 

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There is one more operation aside from the gear teeth...there is a groove 1/8" wide and 1/8" deep located 1/8" from the end. On the original it has a round bottom. I'm guessing that it held string packing to keep oil from the timing case from migrating back through the bearing end of the water pump. ED...is that right and do you think the groove has to have a round bottom? I ask because that will require grinding a special tool but if a square bottom will work it's easy to do with a 1/8 grooving tool. I'd be inclined to put a piece of square braided packing in the groove, in which case the flat bottom will be a little better.

 

Tomorrow morning I'm off to pick up the gear driven dividing head I bought. If all goes well, I'll be back to the shop before noon and can get something done on the test piece for the taper on the end of the shaft.

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Joe.......a square groove is fine, it’s actually a oil gallery scavenging grove.......the large surface area rides in a bronze bearing fed with four oil gallery ports......more of the “White” over engineering.

Looks good! 👍

 

PS- the set screw must sit lower than the bearing surface........obviously!

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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9 minutes ago, edinmass said:

👍

 

 

PS- the set screw must sit lower than the bearing surface........obviously!

 Yes... obviously it has to. The wall thickness is 5/16. I'll use 5/16 set screws and the notches in the shaft will bring the top to just below the surface.

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I knew you had it covered.......just wanted to show that when one makes modifications you need to think of every detail when you change something. Also, I have had the experience of installing and removing it from the car several times........it looks fantastic so far.......there is a lot of things to consider, and it’s 100 times more complicated than I would ever attempt. 
 

 

PS - I’m running cutting oil in the coolant system for rust prevention after the block cleaning, and for water pump lubrication. The temporary shaft fix is holding so far........👍

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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I drove to rural eastern Connecticut this morning to pick this up...the Brown & Sharpe Universal Dividing Head. The gentleman who sold it thought it dated from the 1950s and was fairly surprised when I told him it was more like the 1890s. This was such a good design that if you do an ebay search on "dividing head" you'll find numerous copies, all of this B&S type. It will need some work and I may have to dismantle it to get the dried grease and other grunge out. There are also several bits missing but as far as I know, everything that isn't there is something I can make.

 

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Since I got back from my trip earlier than I'd anticipated I started on a "dummy" end of the shaft. The critical part here is the taper. It's quite difficult for me to measure a taper accurately and the measurements I cam up with are close, but not exactly the same as the standard SAE taper for this application so I'm going to make a test version using my measurements that I can mail to Ed. He can test it on the piece and get back to me regrading fit. I think the best idea would be to put some dychem or fine grinding paste on it and rotate it in the fitting...that would show if it's off and where.

 

The first step was to turn the end down to .625. This is the OD of the large end of the taper.

 

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Then the last 1/2" was turned to 1/2" and chamfered.

 

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I single pointed the thread about .025 deep and finished it up with a die.

 

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I threaded it 1/2-20. The actual part has a 1/2-18 thread - a size I've never heard of. Rather than make something that there is only one nut for, it seems prudent to use a thread where the nuts are commonplace.

 

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Tomorrow I'll cut the taper...I made a special fixture for that and we'll see how well it works.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I was told it weighs 87 lbs. so it's about the same weight as my big lathe chuck. If it were much heavier I'd find it a chore to shift at the end of the day. This is a good example of a tool you will only use once in a while and you may go years without using it at all but when you need it, nothing else will do the job. I think all of us who fix old (i.e. really old cars) know all about that.

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My L-W Chuck Co dividing copied a lot from the Brown & Sharpe design.  Looks like your's is built to run from left side of the table.  I think that was typical for the universal horizontal mills so they could cut helical gears and such.  Mine is a bit bigger and a bit heavier and you're correct, it is a real chore to move around.

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I has to from from the left if you are going to use the gear train. There will be a bit of a learning curve here but I've ordered a copy of the B&S treatise on gearing - I already have "Formulas in Gearing" which just about makes my head spin. It's no different from learning to thread...after I've done it a few times I'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

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Every so often I run into a problem that really requires some thought and today was one of those days. I set up the test pump shaft to cut the taper. You can cut a taper by offsetting the tail stock but that often isn't particularly accurate and its such a PIA to get it straight in the first place that I am extremely reluctant it mess with it when it's right on. I made this this fixture from a boring head. In theory I can adjust the offset very accurately and I was gratified to see that it worked exactly as planned.

 

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I used the indicator to make certain the piece was perfectly straight and then used it again to set the offset which, I had calculated as .0275.

 

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Then cut the taper...

 

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It didn't come out right. I'm sure I made a math error but I've been over this a dozen times today and every way I figure it I come up with the same numbers. Clearly I'm doing something wrong. I tried again doubling the offset...

 

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The measurements still aren't quite right but this is much closer. I then decided I'd better put it aside for today and think about it. When this has happened in the past (more than once) the answer often comes to me in the middle of the night and I find myself thinking "how the h--l did I miss that!" There is a technique I could use that is more or less fool proof but I'd need the original shaft and it's back in the car doing it's job but I will solve this problem eventually.

 

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On the plus side, there are some pieces I need for the dividing head to hold the gear, including a reducing sleeve from #10 B&S taper to #9 since I have a set of #9 collets. One of the things I need to do that is a 9 B&S reamer - a very expensive item and I was trying to think of a way to do it without having to buy one. Well, when I went through the reamer drawer I found both a 9 and a 10, brand new and unused. I think they came from the shop where I bought my surface grinder...they were closing and everything was $10, so I bought anything that looked as if I might have a use for it some day. I'd say that has paid off this time.

 

I have another idea of a method to try so I'll make another one before sending them to Ed to test...

 

An afterthought... Ed, would it be too much trouble to measure the piece that attaches to this taper? I'd need the small end, the big end and the length. That might be more accurate than the measurements I took from the shaft since it's almost impossible to measure a tapered edge perfectly. there's no great hurry, in the meantime I'm cleaning up the dividing head. It's frozen with dried oil so that has to be done in any case.

 

[EDIT] I now think I know what I did wrong and how to fix it...

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Joe, I’ll send you the piece by priority mail tomorrow. Since I don’t have the generator drive shaft installed, it’s just hanging on the end of the water pump. You can see it in the photo below. Best, Ed.

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Great. That will make it much easier to get it right. I didn't realize the generator wasn't on the car. With that in hand I can finish the shafts.

 

j

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19 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

Great. That will make it much easier to get it right. I didn't realize the generator wasn't on the car. With that in hand I can finish the shafts.

 

j


Great thing about the magneto........don’t need the generator charging right now while we work out the electrical system. With the two wire system to the starter, it makes connections kind of funky. We replaced the entire starter wiring system, which is quite extensive and unusual. The generator is tied into the starter.....strange but in this case makes sense. Since we want to steam clean the engine, we left off the splash pans and generator. The latter to protect it from the water. It’s already overhauled as is the cut out, which we also two wires. I figure we will have the engine cleaned next week....and then we will install the generator. Best, Ed

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