48NWYKR Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 Had a great visit from one of our fellow forum members who dropped by the garage on Friday, had a nice long talk and added a few more "must do's" to the list..... thanks bud..... Anyone who has seen Keith's YouTube content will know that there is some really good information there and he sure knows what he is talking about! I might just have to drive up to Kamloops to give the car a good shakedown and go see his 53! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I hope there will be no adhesive left on the shoes when you remove that paper or tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 53 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said: I hope there will be no adhesive left on the shoes when you remove that paper or tape. Green painters tape, not supposed to leave anything behind, and it was only on there for about 15 min while I put them in... came off clean as far as I can see!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 Trip long peace of mind.... only took about an hour start to finish. I take it 70 year old fuel tanks don't normally look like this? So its either been replaced at some point or really well looked after.... either way to whom ever was responsible... THANK YOU!! It sure made my life easier. Oh and before you try to put the fuel back in..... replace the drain plug.... huge face palm right there.... I'm blaming it on the gas fumes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) That's an original 1941-48 Chrysler only 8 cylinder tank... 20 gallons at that... nice tank! You need a good ground for the sending unit... sometimes when R&R'ing a tank the sender won't work.... loss of ground. Edited December 3, 2018 by c49er (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 4 hours ago, c49er said: That's an original 1941-48 Chrysler only 8 cylinder tank... 20 gallons at that... nice tank! You need a good ground for the sending unit... sometimes when R&R'ing a tank the sender won't work.... loss of ground. Thank you for the info, I appreciate it, BUT that sender unit has left me stranded on the highway without gas still showing a half tank before! So I am not too concerned about it, if it works... great... if it does not, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. We will just keep track of mileage and carry a big Jerry can... maybe 2!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 5 hours ago, 48NWYKR said: BUT that sender unit has left me stranded on the highway without gas still showing a half tank before! That is a problem to solve while the tank is out. On most cars it is easier to get right with an original sending unit, but no matter what you do, make sure the float is good, that it does not bang on the tank (but gets very close to the bottom), that it has enough sweep (change in resistance) to swing the needle all the way from E to F, and that the gauge will hit "e" before the pickup can no longer suck. Most of this can be sussed out with an ohmmeter by turning the tank upside down. The last bit can be sussed out by putting enough gas in the tank to raise the gauge a little. sucking the gas out through the pickup with a hand-powered transfer pump until the gauge is at "e", then suck out as much as you can through the pickup into a separate container. Measure this fuel. This is your reserve. Now you know how big it is. Add a ground to the sending unit. It hurts nothing, and makes the gauge more reliable. I would also add a sock to the pickup if it is reasonably practical to do so. Mileage logging or not, driving without a gas gauge can be pretty stressful if you are out in the boonies and don't know where the next filling station might be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 I sent my gauge and sender out for repair twice, added a good ground and I still don't find it to be reliable. It doesn't seem to respond to the key, however after a few minutes of driving it might be accurate. I specified that I was going to 12 volt negative ground. I would be inclined to go to an aftermarket gauge if it would fit the dash properly. But no.... Its a funny two wire system that I don't have much faith in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 55 minutes ago, JACK M said: Its a funny two wire system that I don't have much faith in. I might just have to resort to a really old school dipstick like I did on my 1960 Ford F250 pickup truck... literally a stick that I cut to size and dipped in the tank through the filler neck! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) #8 could just be the battery loosing some ooomph after cranking that beast 14 times before taking the last two readings.... and if not, I think its still OK!? Could just as easily be within the human and mechanical error range.... All plugs out, throttle wide open. I also still need to set the valve clearance... might be even better after! Edited December 4, 2018 by 48NWYKR (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 9 hours ago, Bloo said: make sure the float is good It does float, I stuck it in the bucket of fuel I drained out! And when you put it in the tank empty it does not hit the bottom! That's half the work done!! I can easily put a grounding wire on, that a great idea and I will look into the rest of your suggestions as well, I'm sure I could manage that! As for adding a sock... this tank actually has a metal filter built in and the book says to blow it out with compressed air from any point on the fuel line that you can easily get to, apparently it will still work with up to 2 quarts of water in the tank and the compressed air won't hurt it.! Any more than 2 quarts of water and it will not suck anymore fuel and the tank needs to be drained. No need for servicing the filter as long as you clear with air occasionally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 This is where I am going to keep some of the spares for the trip. Its good insurance and hopefully I never need it. I will be adding to the list of spares but this is a good start I think. Complete starter motor with Solenoid Water-pump 2 coils Set of spark plugs Points Condenser Rotor Distributor cap Some spare fuses Spare washers for the sump plug Oil seals for the filter Freeze plugs (had some spare after fixing them up...why not?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Fuel Pump/Trans Relay? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 Carpet and seats back in! So because I installed the three point retractable seatbelts I had to modify the front bench seat. As you guys know there is almost no space between the pillar and the seat on these old cars so I had to cut a notch into the rear bottom end of the seat to fit over the seatbelt mechanism. Now if only I can find a set of those rubber step mats. Even Steele rubber products don't make them... I guess I will just stick to the old beat up look, it's called character right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanpitkin Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 you can buy the rubber step mats ,usually about $400 !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 3 hours ago, normanpitkin said: you can buy the rubber step mats ,usually about $400 !!! You must be looking in better places than I am because I can't find them. Steele rubber/Kanter/my parts guys/ebay... no luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanpitkin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 runningboardrubbermats.com ,or maybe the Plymouth doctor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 (edited) I WANT A CAR LIFT AT HOME!!!! Can you imagine how much easier this would be with a lift in the garage?? Anyway, had a custom 2.5 inch exhaust bent and installed. Looking good! Tyre's next week after Xmas, 10 ply pickup truck tyres - it's going to look a bit odd but it will work for the trip! Edited December 22, 2018 by 48NWYKR (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I don't know what I would do if I didn't have my lift. Or my exhaust guy for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 (edited) .................. Edited December 24, 2018 by c49er Incorrect post (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Yes Bob I saw the second muffler in the book, when I bought the car it only had the one and I was ok with the noise level. Still quieter than most other cars I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted December 29, 2018 Author Share Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) Thule..... because you always need more space. Sadly it won't fit through the garage door with it on, so I will have to remember to take it off before trying to drive out the door! Edited December 29, 2018 by 48NWYKR (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 On 12/27/2018 at 9:20 AM, 48NWYKR said: Yes Bob I saw the second muffler in the book, when I bought the car it only had the one and I was ok with the noise level. Still quieter than most other cars I have. I think I made a mistake stating all New Yorker's used a rear resonator .... I checked the parts book and only the converts and limo's used the 2nd resonator muffler. I use on on my car. I have worked on many of these cars over the years and heard too many with cheap replacement poorly baffled noisey replacement mufflers.... I just like whisper quiet 1946-48 Chryslers..6 and 8.🙂 I'm looking forward to reading about your big adventure in the Chrysler... you will keep us informed I hope! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 So its been a month away from the computer... and there have been ups, and downs and waaaaay downs.... SO I got the old girl on the road for some full scale test drives, and fitted her with a brand new set of beefy 10 ply truck tires for our trip. I'm really happy with them, they will work out just great. And it turns out that my string and measure wheel alignment on the garage floor was so good that I got to within 0.5 of a degree on all angles. They did not even charge me for the alignment because they did not need to do a thing! Score one for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 But then there is the OTHER side of the coin.... Turns out I have a pretty good leak on the crank seal at the front by the timing chain cover. At low rpm in the garage it leaks about a drop a minute, but sadly at driving speed it practically pours out and sprays oil all over the front of the engine. Now I did put a new seal in when I did the work the first time, but I never paid much attention to the pulley because I though the new seal would be sufficient. Well that did not work.... Then there is the cooling system, low speed - in traffic - in town, no problem, the electric fans cool just fine and obviously moves enough air. On the highway however its another story all together. Anything over 40 mph the cooling fans stay on ALL the time and the temp gauge never goes under 190F and creeps over 200F every so often.(and its winter here, with no AC and not pulling a trailer!!) Slow down, stop in traffic, it all cools down again.... speed up, it gets to hot. I did check that the thermostat is working properly - all good there, and the waterpump is doing its job just fine, I could play with the ignition timing a bit but I don't think it can have THAT much of an affect? So in my mind I think I have perhaps created too much of a restriction with the electric fan/cowling and its just not able to move enough air at speed. So here we are again, front end off, new seals and a speedi sleeve on the crank pulley (after filling the groove with JB-Weld and sanding it down) now I just have to re-think my cooling system. On the plus side I discovered a very small leak right at the bottom hose of the rad so I'm having that fixed now as well, rather now than on the road in Mexico I say. Disc brakes finally work exceptionally well! After the "direct Bolt-on" conversion set took months to install I was weary, but it seems to have come together in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 At least I can remove the entire front-end in one go with the help of a few friends All the wiring have quick disconnect plugs on them so I just take the bumper off, unplug and undo the fender bols and rad support. Front end off and on the ground in under an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, 48NWYKR said: I think I have perhaps created too much of a restriction with the electric fan/cowling and its just not able to move enough air at speed. That was my thought too. The electric fan just doesn't turn fast enough and at speed it acts as a dam and prevents air getting in! Can you try turning it off and let it freewheel? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Fan "on" temperature should be higher than normal operating temperature. For instance in much more modern cars, if the thermostat is 195 degrees F, then the "on" temp is something more like 210F or 220F. Those cars regulate on the thermostat temp at speed, and at "on" temp (higher) in traffic. Temperatures vary, but I have never yet seen a factory setup that did not use some variation of this strategy. It is indeed to minimize the blocking effect of the electric fan while underway. Electric fans offer quite a bit of restriction to flow even when freewheeling, but it is a lot less bad than having the fan run while moving. 3 or 4 bladed fans offer quite a bit less restriction (when off) than ones with a bunch of little blades. Just look through the fan while it is stopped and you will see why. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) I was thinking about this while picking blueberries this morning. Fan design is done assuming incompressable air. We should be able to do a basic ballpark calculation of the air through an unimpeded radiator at 100 kph and compare it to the rated throughput of the fan at full speed. Say your fan is 40 cm diameter = 16". At 62 mph = 100 kph, you will get about 3.5 m3/s through the fan opening, assuming unimpeded flow. But we know the radiator has fins and tubes that block flow plus an engine behind it that also gets in the way a bit, not to mention the turbulence in the front of the car that will reduce inflow. So lets assume 50% of lost capacity, so the throughput might be about 1.75 m3/s which is about 60 cu. ft per second. What is the rated throughput of the fan? Note also that the throughput of the fan on the engine changes with engine speed. This fan draws 15 A (serious amount of power!) and is rated at 3000 cfm = 50 cfs. I am dubious it will help much at speed, but expect it will help at low speed. https://www.americanvolt.com/collections/16-inch-fans/products/16-inch-electric-radiator-fan-high-3000-cfm-thermostat-wiring-switch-relay-kit I really hope I am completely wrong here, in guessing the loss of throughput at only 50%. It could be a lot more once turbulence and other losses are factored in. Edited February 5, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I would be surprised if there were anything like 50% headroom (especially if there is any intention of driving in hot weather). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Cant say that I have ever been into one of these engines, but should there be and is there an oil slinger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I think this post reveals some clues about air flow blockage. https://forums.aaca.org/topic/285532-1948-new-yorker-2-year-road-trip/?do=findComment&comment=1777575 That’s a mighty monster rad. It does appear that the electric fans cannot pull enough air through it at driving speed. I did not review the entire thread to see if you pulled your water distribution tube. To inspect. Its in the block, right above the valve ports. Water pump to come off and then water tube pulls out the front....In theory. Old and tusty? You may need to learn the skills of a surgeon to get it all out. Looking at the blockage from the electric fan shrouds, I ‘m not convinced a good water distribution tube is going to be the fix. However, is important even with the stock cooling system. Paramount for a long journey with your destination in mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 18 hours ago, Bloo said: Fan "on" temperature should be higher than normal operating temperature. For instance in much more modern cars, if the thermostat is 195 degrees F, then the "on" temp is something more like 210F or 220F. Those cars regulate on the thermostat temp at speed, and at "on" temp (higher) in traffic. Temperatures vary, but I have never yet seen a factory setup that did not use some variation of this strategy. It is indeed to minimize the blocking effect of the electric fan while underway. Electric fans offer quite a bit of restriction to flow even when freewheeling, but it is a lot less bad than having the fan run while moving. 3 or 4 bladed fans offer quite a bit less restriction (when off) than ones with a bunch of little blades. Just look through the fan while it is stopped and you will see why. Hey Bloo, the thermostat starts to open at 165F ( I verified that suspending it in a pot on the stove with a thermometer) the car use to run on the highway at around 175F and the fan thermocouple switch kicks on at 185F (also checked this with a pot on the stove) and kicks off at 165F. So if all works well the thermostat should stay open and the fan should stay off at speed.... only if it is getting enough air... right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 16 hours ago, Spinneyhill said: I was thinking about this while picking blueberries this morning. Fan design is done assuming incompressable air. We should be able to do a basic ballpark calculation of the air through an unimpeded radiator at 100 kph and compare it to the rated throughput of the fan at full speed. Say your fan is 40 cm diameter = 16". At 62 mph = 100 kph, you will get about 3.5 m3/s through the fan opening, assuming unimpeded flow. But we know the radiator has fins and tubes that block flow plus an engine behind it that also gets in the way a bit, not to mention the turbulence in the front of the car that will reduce inflow. So lets assume 50% of lost capacity, so the throughput might be about 1.75 m3/s which is about 60 cu. ft per second. What is the rated throughput of the fan? Note also that the throughput of the fan on the engine changes with engine speed. This fan draws 15 A (serious amount of power!) and is rated at 3000 cfm = 50 cfs. I am dubious it will help much at speed, but expect it will help at low speed. https://www.americanvolt.com/collections/16-inch-fans/products/16-inch-electric-radiator-fan-high-3000-cfm-thermostat-wiring-switch-relay-kit I really hope I am completely wrong here, in guessing the loss of throughput at only 50%. It could be a lot more once turbulence and other losses are factored in. My fans are 6v 12 inch diameter rated at 8.5A I could not get the cu.ft/sec on the ebay site. But here is what I bought. (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-Volt-Electric-Radiator-Cooling-Fan-12-Inch-Dia-Push-Pull-10-Blade/261844828516?hash=item3cf72b0164:g:92oAAOSwp7taYOGQ:rk:1:pf:0&vxp=mtr) Considering they are 10 blades each and smaller than the fan in your math, I guess its even worse. It would seem more like a wall at speed...... My plan is to mount the fans as close as I can to the surface of the rad without the shroud. That way I hope to get enough cooling at low speed and idle and enough airflow on the open road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, JACK M said: Cant say that I have ever been into one of these engines, but should there be and is there an oil slinger? Hey Jack, what is an oil slinger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, keithb7 said: I think this post reveals some clues about air flow blockage. https://forums.aaca.org/topic/285532-1948-new-yorker-2-year-road-trip/?do=findComment&comment=1777575 That’s a mighty monster rad. It does appear that the electric fans cannot pull enough air through it at driving speed. I did not review the entire thread to see if you pulled your water distribution tube. To inspect. Its in the block, right above the valve ports. Water pump to come off and then water tube pulls out the front....In theory. Old and tusty? You may need to learn the skills of a surgeon to get it all out. Looking at the blockage from the electric fan shrouds, I ‘m not convinced a good water distribution tube is going to be the fix. However, is important even with the stock cooling system. Paramount for a long journey with your destination in mind. Hey Keith, when I did the water pump the first time I had a real good look down the water dist. tube, flashlight, long pokey stick the works, it was clean solid with minimal signs of rust and the only "holes" were the ports that actually distribute the water to the individual cylinders. it was in surprisingly good shape, possibly replaced before it got to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Kind of a large washer thing that goes on the very front of the crank shaft. It will have a small notch that goes over the key that drives the gear for the cam chain. Its usually a bit convex so as not to hit the chain and is held tight by the balancer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 The very last thing you would put on the crankshaft before you install the timing cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Here's one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48NWYKR Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) Nope... I have not seen that on my engine. timing cover has an oil seal and a felt strip to keep out dust and seals on the pulley. Oil comes from a small metal tube connected to the cam shaft oil channel and sits behind the gears. That's about it on this car.... I think, I will look at the parts book but I'm sure it does not list one. Good idea though.... keeps most the oil away from the seal in the first place. Edited February 5, 2019 by 48NWYKR (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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