Restore (oil additive) question

[414TATA]

I also  posted this question in the Pre War Buick forum. I am asking  for feed back on the use of "Restore' oil additive to reduce smoking. (The car, not you) 

 

I have a 1941 Buick straight eight all original engine with just under 30K miles. It's starting to get some smoking when stopped in traffic.  Sometimes a lot sometimes not so much.  pretty sure it's oil use as it is grey in color. (rings?)  Oil use has not been excessive.  

 

Have any of you had success in smoke reduction with this product?  

 

Thanks

 

Wayne

1941 Buick

 

 

 

[Dandy Dave]

That is about common for that vintage engine with the quality of oil for those days when it was built. 

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

A friend of mine stopped the smoking in his 1940 

Several successive applications were required before the smoking stopped. 

[Rusty_OToole]

Oil smoke is blue. White smoke is normal water vapor. Black is unburned gas or soot. Does the smoke only occur when the engine is cold? Does it stop after a long drive? Then it could be normal for a cold engine with the choke on.

 

A few long trips of at least 100 miles will do it more good than anything.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I used it in a Subaru engine a few years back. It's my understanding that the  Subaru had sat for two or three years before I bought it. I was surprised that the car smoked as much as it did, given the miles on it. I thought it would get better after I drove it a few weeks, but it didn't.  I think that I first heard about "Restore" on another forum, but I don't recall right now. Even though I really don't much believe in miracles in a can, I took a chance on the stuff and it really impressed me. I thought that if it ever did any good at all, it would take a while for the results to show. In my case that wasn't true. It was effective quite quickly. I don't know how it works, exactly, but I'd use it again if there use a need.

[Guest AlCapone]

For the insignifant cost what do you have to lose. Give it a try for the peace of mind ! Wayne

[Dave Henderson]

Old OHV engines were especially vulnerable to oil and/or oil fumes getting through the valve guides and into the combustion chamber.  A clue you gave is that smoking occurs when idling.  That is when the intake manifold vacuum is greatest, and when it is most likely to be drawn in.  So, that could be your problem.  In the era of your Buick there was an inexpensive fix, after market spring loaded valve seals that could be installed at the end of the guides.  Later, neoprene seals came into use to serve the same purpose, and ones that would work on your Buick may be obtainable and could be installed.  A whole lot less costly than an overhaul. Just remember to have the cylinder you are working on at tdc on the combustion cycle and pressurize it so the valve won't fall into the cylinder while its spring is off.

[Spinneyhill]

What oil are you using? Is this stuff a viscosifier or a gum that fills holes?

 

Rather than just pouring in snake oil out of a can, you might be better to find out what the problem is. Start with a compression test. Add oil to each cylinder and test again. I was very happy driving my 1930 Dodge Brothers 8 one boxing day until on the way home it started to smoke badly, all the time. New rings, including a light hone and ridge removal, fixed it.

 

After reading their own blurb, I wouldn't bother. http://www.restoreusa.com/engine-restorer-information

 

If you have leaking valve guides it won't fix them. It says it fixed cylinder walls. Sounds preposterous to me. Here is the claim:

"

RESTORE repairs worn out areas in the cylinder walls to improve the seal between piston rings and cylinder walls. It is the only product that contains the technologically advanced CSL formulation proven to fill in and seal microscopic leaks in the cylinder wall.  Most importantly RESTORE works to fill, seal and lubricate the area of the cylinder at TDC where it is most needed. The result is higher compression, less blow-by, and more efficient combustion that restores power to improve engine performance. "

 

Eh? Leaks in the cylinder wall? Humbug. What is this CSL formulation?

 

Nah, find out why it is smoking. My Studebaker started smoking after a rebuild. I think it became glazed.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[ArticiferTom]

I have same problem with my daughters '07 Subaru . It's common problem where the ring stick in the grooves causing lots of oil blow by . You do not see it as smoke ,at tail pipe because of cat- converter . But oil consumption jumps to 1 qt . every 200-300 miles and the service engine lite codes for downstream convertor O2 sensor . Adding a lube like Restore we use some other brand to oil every other change keeps usage at 1qt every 1500 miles . It only makes rings able to expand and contract within the groove by cleaning and lubing better at groove . Results give tighter fit to cylinder wall . Probably this is what restore is doing also .

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

What oil are you using? Is this stuff a viscosifier or a gum that fills holes?

 

Rather than just pouring in snake oil out of a can, you might be better to find out what the problem is. Start with a compression test. Add oil to each cylinder and test again. I was very happy driving my 1930 Dodge Brothers 8 one boxing day until on the way home it started to smoke badly, all the time. New rings, including a light hone and ridge removal, fixed it.

 

After reading their own blurb, I wouldn't bother. http://www.restoreusa.com/engine-restorer-information

 

If you have leaking valve guides it won't fix them. It says it fixed cylinder walls. Sounds preposterous to me. Here is the claim:

"

RESTORE repairs worn out areas in the cylinder walls to improve the seal between piston rings and cylinder walls. It is the only product that contains the technologically advanced CSL formulation proven to fill in and seal microscopic leaks in the cylinder wall.  Most importantly RESTORE works to fill, seal and lubricate the area of the cylinder at TDC where it is most needed. The result is higher compression, less blow-by, and more efficient combustion that restores power to improve engine performance. "

 

Eh? Leaks in the cylinder wall? Humbug. What is this CSL formulation?

 

Nah, find out why it is smoking. My Studebaker started smoking after a rebuild. I think it became glazed.

By your account, 

Snake oil won't work.

 

To find out what is wrong, and rebuild the engine 

Didn't work either. 

 

The snake oil is much cheaper failure.

[JFranklin]

If you have stuck rings try putting a cup of auto transmission oil in each cylinder and let it set at least a week. Then change the oil and see if that doesn't free them up. Are you using the proper viscosity oil?

[Guest]

Old OHV engines were especially vulnerable to oil and/or oil fumes getting through the valve guides and into the combustion chamber.  A clue you gave is that smoking occurs when idling.  That is when the intake manifold vacuum is greatest, and when it is most likely to be drawn in.  So, that could be your problem.  In the era of your Buick there was an inexpensive fix, after market spring loaded valve seals that could be installed at the end of the guides.  Later, neoprene seals came into use to serve the same purpose, and ones that would work on your Buick may be obtainable and could be installed.  A whole lot less costly than an overhaul. Just remember to have the cylinder you are working on at tdc on the combustion cycle and pressurize it so the valve won't fall into the cylinder while its spring is off.

The highest amount of engine vacuum is created on deceleration, especially if you are down shifting to a lower gear for some engine braking going down a hill with your foot off the gas pedal. The real test for checking if oil is getting past the valve stem and the guide is to decelerate going down a grade in a lower gear, foot off the gas and as you come out of it accelerate rapidly. Most of the time if the valve guides are worn you will get a puff of blue smoke or if the guides are really bad a momentary cloud of blue smoke. At cruising speed you would not usually see smoke if the guides are not severely worn. Have someone drive behind you to confirm the smoke.  

Edited January 31, 2016 by helfen (see edit history)

[Guest]

Oil smoke is blue. White smoke is normal water vapor. Black is unburned gas or soot. Does the smoke only occur when the engine is cold? Does it stop after a long drive? Then it could be normal for a cold engine with the choke on.

 

A few long trips of at least 100 miles will do it more good than anything.

 

Water and water vapor comes out of the tailpipe naturally due to condensation from the previous time the engine was run and is normal on start up and is either ejected out the tailpipe or burned off. How much usually depends on the relative humidity in the air. 

And what does a coolant leak into the combustion chamber from a blown head gasket smoke like???? White.

And what can also cause a white smoke from the exhaust ( not on the car in question ) ??? A hole in the vacuum modulator of a automatic trans car pulling ATF into the intake manifold. ATF does not burn blue. It burns grey white and burns very hot.

Edited January 31, 2016 by helfen (see edit history)

[GK1918]

Old shop saying "once metal has been removed, its mighty hard to put it back on".  All I can say to make you feel better,

out of high school I worked in my uncles bus co. where I got real familiar with FB320 straight eights.  They were run hard

like 8hrs X 5 days.  Remembering cherry red manifolds which often cracked, but roughly 100,000 was not uncommon before

a rebuild . We always had a complete ready to go engine on hand / about a 1/2hr and the bus was out the door power unit slid

in a cradle like a draw.   So I have high respect for these still have one in the shed....only snake oil back then was the new

STP.   We bought McMillan ring free #30 oil by the drums and changed them 2,000 miles.  good ole days.

 

sam

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I think that when we are talking about Restore, we're talking about a product that is useful for diminishing oil use by some improvement in regard to rings, ring lands, cylinder walls, etc. I don't know why it worked well for me or Articifer Tom, but it did. Leaky valve guides and dried up valve seals are probably a different matter, all together.

[Spinneyhill]

To find out what is wrong, and rebuild the engine 

Didn't work either. 

 

Really? If you read Unimogjohn's thread in Our Cars and Restoration Projects, you will come across Greg's saga on his Avanti. His completely overhauled engine ran 10 miles or something. There was a problem in the cam bearings. I am not sure if Greg knows why. He rebuilds old aero engines for a crust.

 

If the engine oil has a sheen when you empty it, you have metal in it. Time to investigate. I have saved a differential that way - one of the bearings was slightly off line and wearing. You can also get the oil tested for metal.

 

Why did the rebuild "not work"? Are you using detergent oil of the correct grade? Any other additives? Has the engine sat for a long time?

 

If you asked a "professional" for advice and they said to try something, but they didn't know what it was or how it worked or if it worked at all or even what problem they were trying to fix, would you do it?

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

 

To find out what is wrong, and rebuild the engine 

Didn't work either. 

 

Really? If you read Unimogjohn's thread in Our Cars and Restoration Projects, you will come across Greg's saga on his Avanti. His completely overhauled engine ran 10 miles or something. There was a problem in the cam bearings. I am not sure if Greg knows why. He rebuilds old aero engines for a crust.

 

If the engine oil has a sheen when you empty it, you have metal in it. Time to investigate. I have saved a differential that way - one of the bearings was slightly off line and wearing. You can also get the oil tested for metal.

 

Why did the rebuild "not work"? Are you using detergent oil of the correct grade? Any other additives? Has the engine sat for a long time?

 

If you asked a "professional" for advice and they said to try something, but they didn't know what it was or how it worked or if it worked at all or even what problem they were trying to fix, would you do it?

 

this sentence is what I'm referring to;

"Nah, find out why it is smoking. My Studebaker started smoking after a rebuild. I think it became glazed."

 

take a chill pill