Want opinions on this '68 Mustang

[bosco001]

I'm not a newbie to Mustangs and if I should post this to another forum, please let me know, but I'd like input on this '68 Mustang I'm interested in that is being offered by a dealer. Looks like a nice car and I know my questions regarding its quality would be answered after spending 5 minutes behind the wheel. Unfortunately, I live 3 states and 9 hours away from it. My main question for posting here is one of value. Again, it appears to be a nice car, but the $38,500 asking price just seems astronomical for what is a base Mustang convertible, albeit nicely optioned. I suspect the car could be bought for something less. So, PLEASE share with me your thoughts on what a reasonable buyer should pay for this car. Thanks.

http://cloud9classics.com/1968-ford-mustang-convertible-j-code-38500/

[Bleach]

Some of the photos of the underside look suspicious like painted over rubber parts of the suspension that are cracked.

And this one that seems like some sort of repair was done.

[Matt Harwood]

My professional opinion? That's an awful lot of money for a garden-variety small-block Mustang. Handsome colors, but not an investment-grade car. I sold a pretty nice 289-powered 1967 GTA convertible in triple black a few years ago for $31,000. This is none of those things and it's a lot more expensive. And at that price, it had better be close to perfect. No excuses about non-working clocks or old weather stripping or a wandering wheel alignment. It better be mind-blowingly tight.

 

My opinion as a car enthusiast and Mustang owner? The bottom line when someone asks about "value" is that only you can decide whether it's a good price. If you can afford it, if the car will make you happy, then it's a good deal. Price relativism makes car guys frustrated and we spend too much time worrying if we paid too much or sold too cheap. I bet that car can be bought for $35,000, but that's still a lot for such a car. But if you like the car, if you're comfortable with the price, who cares what some guys on a message board think? This is about fun, if that car looks like fun to you, then go for it. Let the future take care of itself. You don't go to Disney World and hope that you can make some money when you get home by selling souvenirs, right?

Edited September 17, 2015 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Some of the photos of the underside look suspicious like painted over rubber parts of the suspension that are cracked.

And this one that seems like some sort of repair was done.

 

That's definitely an amateur floor patch job using a full replacement floor.

[Guest AlCapone]

The patch job has me wondering how much more Is. " Mickey Mouse " ! I would not touch it or make the trip! Wayne

[Guest]

 "....it appears to be wearing all of its original sheet metal with no evidence of rust repair".

 

Car originally hails from New Mexico which produces a lot of rusty cars.

 

Give them a call and ask them about the floor area in question. If I was that interested in a car 3 states away, I'd call a local, independent body shop and ask them to go by the dealership and either confirm or allay my suspicions regarding any earlier repairs. I'd offer to send (or bring) them a few dollars for their trouble.

 

Still, it is an absolutely terrific looking Mustang. '68 Convertible Mustangs are bringing pretty tall money here in Southern California, even with a small block automatic. Color combination is a real show stopper. J code and 4 speed are a plus too. But I have to agree with the others here, asking price seems pretty high, but with a dealer you can expect that. Take them off at the knees with your offer. The worst they can say is "No". Winter is just around the corner so they may have to sit on this one til spring.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Some dealers' asking prices are double a car's value.

Not always, but I've noticed that sales tactic

in many more cases than with private sellers.

 

Personal tastes vary, but often green is seen as a

less desirable color.  Brown is too.  Do forum members

think that a green Mustang would be worth less? 

Edited September 17, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Guest]

John, 

           It's been my experience lately that some of the more obscure colors are really making a comeback in a big way. Especially at places like Hot August Nights in Reno, Barrett Jackson in Las Vegas and other large scale shows. I think the decades of painting every muscle car red, blue or black has finally passed. I'm seeing a lot more greens, yellows, "evening orchids" and other, formerly thought of as less desirable colors making a big resurgence in the collector world. Especially where originality is drawing such large cash numbers. There is a tan on tan '66 Mustang running around here in Palm Springs that is absolutely stunning.

Case in point, four years ago I bought a very tired but very complete 1968 Firebird 400 4 speed. The car was so complete and all numbers matched so I knew it was a great candidate for a complete frame up restoration. Of course it had acquired the obligatory red paint  by the time I'd I found it.  Turns out it was originally Verdoro Green (not a very popular color by the 1980's) with a black vinyl top (which was also missing) and black interior so that was the combination I went back to. Now I drive the car a coupe times a week and without fail, people comment on how much they love the color.

I've owned well over 100 cars and this may sound crazy, but I'm so overdosed on red, it's the only color car I no longer buy!   

 

Best,

           Greg

[alsancle]

I agree with Matt & others that the price is high,  but I think some are discounting the J code 4 speed combo which makes it much more desirable than 90% which are all  2 barrel automatics.

 

The only issue I see with the underside is that the bottom edge of the rocker is fuzzy in the picture,  that pinch weld is where you see issues.  The torque boxes look great which I take as a sign the bottom of the car is pretty good.

 

If you want a rust free 4 speed convertible you are going to spend money in any event.   

[John_S_in_Penna]

... I'm so overdosed on red, it's the only color car I no longer buy!   

 

Best,

           Greg

 

I'm glad you went back to the original colors, Greg:  Nice looking Firebird!

And wouldn't the original owners be pleased if they could see their car

the way it left the showroom!

 

I know what you mean about color.  A red convertible, since there are

so many of them, is great-looking but almost trite.  For the last 3 antique cars I bought--

coral-and-pink 1957 Cadillac Fleetwood;  wisteria 1969 Cadillac Eldorado with

white vinyl top and plum interior; and grass-green 1979 Buick Electra coupe

with mint green vinyl top and green velour interior--the unusual factory-original colors

were what attracted me in the first place.  But I didn't know that others felt the same way.

Edited September 17, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Graham Man]

If you are really interested in this car hire a professional restoration person to look at it, in person.  The money you spend will be well worth the investment. 

 

A Mustang floor to rocker seam should not look like that.  Looks like they did not remove the entire floor pan to the rocker panel (like you should), someone just trimmed it and tried to weld it to the old rusty floor pan.  These cars are getting old, this repair might have been done 30 years ago.   The spray undercoat is new, so someone knows it is not correct, maybe the reason he is selling?  It will be expensive to repair correctly.

 

alsancle is right, J codes are going crazy $ and I think it will get worse.

[bosco001]

Not being a body man, in the photo of the undercarriage being referenced, I'm not exactly sure what I should be looking at to see what is obvious to those more knowledgeable.  But, that's why I posted here, to get informed insight - for which I'm most appreciative and thankful.  

 

I know that the torque boxes are important on a Mustang.  Earlier, someone mentioned that these look to be in good shape.

 

Let me ask this .  .  .  is the improper floorplan repair a major "structural" problem?  In other words, would I have to worry about the car splitting in two while driving down the road?  Or, is this something that would merely result in a points deduction at a judged MCA meet?  Looking forward to reading everyone's responses.  Keep them coming!  Thanks.  - Steve

[Matt Harwood]

I don't think it's a problem at all in terms of the car's driveability or safety. There are thousands of Mustangs running around with similar repairs (or worse--much worse). It's not "correct" and it's was obviously done by someone who either didn't want to do the bigger job of doing it right, or just didn't know any better. I don't think you'll have issues if you drive it and use it as intended. But the sticking point is still the price.

 

I get annoyed by guys coming into my showroom and looking at a car. If they spot a floor patch on an otherwise very nice car, they immediately cross it off their list and walk away. Patches and rust repair aren't necessarily bad, they don't make for a bad car, and they don't change anything except that you know there used to be rust there and someone fixed it at some point. For some guys, apparently that's something that will keep them up at night and it's an unforgivable sin on a car. My personal opinion on a repair like this, especially on a hobby car that will not see A) daily driving, winter weather, or C) high speeds/cornering, is that they're a non-issue in terms of how the car works. SOMEONE certainly owns all those patched cars, it's just when one shows up in my showroom that everyone becomes a nit-picker who wants virgin sheetmetal.

 

But at that price... Well, it's probably not crazy to expect a car that has never been rusty or repaired.

 

So no real effect on how the car works or looks, but with that kind of price tag, well, it really shouldn't be that way.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[alsancle]

The Mustang is a uni-body which means the integrity of the car comes from the entire structure.  That said, most of the structural strength is in the rockers & tunnel and then partially in the floor.  There is nothing necessarily horrible about the way this floor looks.  Just not perfect as the rocker to floor joint looks a little messy.   To me the bottom of this car does not look bad at all.  I've been under more than a few rusty Mustangs.

 

If you are looking in the 35k price range you will have a few choices.  If a convertible with the 4 speed/4barrel combination is important then you will have a lot fewer choices.  This does not look like a bad car but you should look at a bunch of different ones.   Be sure to see the Marti report matches the car,  doors shut correctly with good gaps and the torque boxes are not rusty or covered in undercoat.

[Graham Man]

Could be a small problem, might be a big problem, it is an indicator you should have a professional look at the car before you buy the car. 

 

 Here is the replacement part you are looking for to fix the problem...

 

http://www.cjponyparts.com/dynacorn-complete-body-shell-fastback-1968/p/68FB/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=merchant&utm_campaign=shopping&gclid=CPiM_PvQ_scCFQaNaQod54EBhw

[rwchatham]

Matt,  

 

I cant speak about the guys that come in to your show room and what they are thinking but when I am looking at a car and see where patches are put in I tend to walk away also. Its not that the car had rust at one time that would push me away but its the fact that you can see the patch work, A quality rust repair should be invisible and when I can plainly see a patch then that makes me question what else has been done  to the car that might not be up to par. Just my thought.

[bosco001]

Graham Man - when I click on the link you provided for the replacement part, what comes up is a "Complete Body Shell Fastback" for a 1968 Mustang.   Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place or doing something wrong.  Can you please clarify what all replacement part(s) would be needed to make a proper repair?

 

[Matt Harwood]

 

Graham Man - when I click on the link you provided for the replacement part, what comes up is a "Complete Body Shell Fastback" for a 1968 Mustang.   Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place or doing something wrong.  Can you please clarify what all replacement part(s) would be needed to make a proper repair?

 

 

 

I think he's implying in a tongue-in-cheek way that the only way to fix it completely is to replace the entire body. I don't know that this is true, and like I said, there are more cars running around with patched floors than without, so I don't think that affects this car's operation unless it was REALLY badly done, which I don't think it was. It just wasn't as carefully or thoroughly done as it could have been, but this car isn't a death trap. It's just not a virgin anymore.

[Guest]

Maybe we're all thinking too hard here. On second inspection I think the answer is much simpler. A more believable explanation for the ripples in that pinch weld could that, for the last 47 years, every time the car needed to be jacked up with a floor jack, whether it was to change a tire, do the brakes, change oil, etc. that lower rocker area is EXACTLY where every mechanic in the country would place a floor jack and start lifting. I've not only seen this a million times on unibody cars I've done it a million times.

Greg

[Matt Harwood]

It's not the bent pinch weld that's the problem, it's the seam inboard of it where the original floor was cut out and a new one installed. Originally the floor was PART of the pinch weld, it was formed to mate up with the rocker panel outer skin and pinch welded together to create the unit-body. The right way to replace the floor would have been to dissect the pinch weld, remove the old floor intact as much as possible, then reinstall the new floor by welding it back to the pinch welded area. In this car's case, they used a cut-off wheel to remove the floors as close to the outer edges as possible, then likely stitch-welded the new floors in, which gives you that visible seam. They obviously did the welding from inside the car, which is the right way to do that, so that [hopefully] the car was sitting on its suspension so that the new floors would be properly aligned and wouldn't torque the body unnaturally. Hence the rather ragged seam you see. It could have been dressed better so that it would virtually disappear, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad repair, just not done to the standards of a car priced at book value +20%.

 

 

As I said, I do not believe that this is a bad repair and I don't think it affects the car's structure or operation. If this were a $25,000 car, it would be easy enough to overlook. But at $38,000, es no bueno.

[auburnseeker]

The only thing with a rust repair is it comes into the sale ability of the car when you go to sell it.  I've bought cars with rust repair.  Some good some bad. As well as cars with no rust. (it really is nice to be able to say a car has never been patched when you go to sell it)  It's the number one reason a buyer will walk away from a car.  As mentioned if it's done really right it's undetectable.  If it's not done to that caliber it will almost always affect the cars resale and ease of being able to sell it. 

[Guest AlCapone]

At $38,500 I want it to be perfect! I would not walk away, I would run very fast ! Wayne

[vermontboy]

Convertibles don;t have a lot of stiffness to begin with, hopefully the fully cross braced before they cut the floor out and welded the new one in. If they didn't there is a very good possibility the entire body structure is "tweaked". That is why you need for a professional to inspect it prior to purchase, and why the suggestion that the :new: body is probably the only way you can assure yourself that this one is 100%. Watched a friend go through this.

 

Just my two cents.

[Guest]

 

 

As I said, I do not believe that this is a bad repair and I don't think it affects the car's structure or operation. 

 

Agreed. I think way too much emphasis is put on rust repairs. The days of endless virgin body panels and floors are long gone. I also feel that as long as the repairs were done professionally, no one is going to know when you're driving down the highway 60 miles an hour in a great looking car.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[alsancle]

That is a dealer price for sure but have you guys paid any attention to factory/matching 4barrel 4 speed mustang convertible prices?  Also, I'm not sure why there is this inference it is a rot box.  I'm not seeing that at all.

[alsancle]

Here is what 15k buys:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/19680000-Ford-Mustang-Convertible-/141776983717?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

[Matt Harwood]

Sorry, double post.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[bosco001]

Matt: Did you post this? "And here's what $23,000 buys (real GT, 4-speed, A/C, pony interior)".

But, I don't see the car, or a link.

[dalef62]

I like this part of the description.

When she bought it, the car only had 110,910 original miles on it.  The current mileage is 111,295 miles. Do the math and you will see that in her 17 years of owning this beauty she put just over 1300 miles on it.

[Graham Man]

The nice thing about Mustangs is there are lots of them....  This one looks nice $26k best part is it is a CA car

 

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ford/mustang/1774568.html

[bosco001]

Appreciate the reference. But, I have to admit, I don't think this yellow Mustang in California is comparable to the green one in Georgia. The yellow is not nearly as nice in my opinion.

[alsancle]

We are comparing apples and oranges.  In the musclecar world engine and transmission is everything and a 4barrell/4speed car is worth a lot more than a 2 barrel/automatic car.

[Graham Man]

All I am saying is there are a lot of Mustangs out there, If you don't want one with rusty floor pans, keep looking this is not the car for you. 

 

Rust is the most expensive problem to fix (there is a reason body men call it cancer). 

[JACK M]

I hate it when you have to scroll the pictures to see what transmission it has.

I am a four (5,6) speed guy and the description should tell that information. That would save me some time as I peruse things that I cannot afford anyway.

 

I don't much care for the yellow either.

Edited September 18, 2015 by JACK M (see edit history)

[JACK M]

Found this one.

http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/5225507696.html

[Guest AlCapone]

Here is what 15k buys:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/19680000-Ford-Mustang-Convertible-/141776983717?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

Have to disagree! That is an EBay asking not selling price! You can ask anything. Wayne

[uh6077]

When looking for eBay values you have to look at the "sold" items, not the ones still listed. Here are two. Both automatics and the yellow has some sloppy overspray in places but you can't tell me the the green one is $20,000 nice than either of these. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Ford-Mustang-/231624879655?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35edeb2e27&item=231624879655&nma=true&si=b9HkPuAmXgSIp46CHULgmtzbSZY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Ford-Mustang-1968-mustang-gt-convertible-see-video-3days-only-/301666156941?forcerrptr=true&hash=item463cb4418d&item=301666156941&nma=true&si=b9HkPuAmXgSIp46CHULgmtzbSZY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[Bleach]

When looking for eBay values you have to look at the "sold" items, not the ones still listed. Here are two. Both automatics and the yellow has some sloppy overspray in places but you can't tell me the the green one is $20,000 nice than either of these. 

 

The yellow one also has cracks around the door latch mount screw hole in the drivers door and a poorly installed passenger side headlamp.

Not bad looking for driver quality.

[Matt Harwood]

Matt: Did you post this? "And here's what $23,000 buys (real GT, 4-speed, A/C, pony interior)".

But, I don't see the car, or a link.

 

Sorry, yes, I tried posting pictures of the Nightmist Blue 1966 Mustang GT convertible I bought for my wife three years ago for $23,000, but the system hiccuped and this is the first I've been able to get back on. Odd.

 

Anyway, there are nice cars out there for a lot less money. Top cars can command top prices, and if you want a top-quality car, well, you have to be prepared to pay. But there are plenty of cars out there that are 80-90% as nice that are 30-50% less expensive, so it's a parabolic curve as quality goes up, the price goes up even faster. You need to determine when buying what I call a "commodity" car like a Mustang (that is, there are plenty and most are roughly equivalent in terms of desirability) what you can live with. If you insist on perfection, well, you're going to pay dearly for it. My wife's car has 10-year-old paint with a few nicks and scratches, the top is new, there's a new interior over original foam that's a little crushed, and it runs a non-matching late-model 5.0 that's been dressed to look like a vintage 289. The A/C is cold, it's got a desirable close-ratio 4-speed, and it's a real-deal A-code, 4-speed GT, and we paid A LOT less than this car in question. It's not a pedigree car, but it's a very nice driver that she adores and drives daily and we certainly aren't embarrassed to take it to shows.

 

So that was my point. Perfection costs more. Most folks are unwilling to pay for it. If that's the case, then you'll either have to settle for a less than perfect car (which will be cheaper) or save your money and buy the expensive one that's perfect.

 

As for the car in question, it's both expensive and imperfect, so I don't know what to tell you other than if you like it, buy it, have fun, and don't worry about the money. If you aren't sure, then it's definitely not the right car and you should keep shopping. Set your price limit (be reasonable--don't expect a nice V8 Mustang convertible for $15,000, but you don't need to spend $35,000, either) and look at everything you can afford in that range. Buy the one that makes you happiest. If you're satisfied with it, then the price is irrelevant.

 

You're buying fun. It's not smart to think of cars as an investment any more than a vacation or a round of golf is an investment. If you can get your money out of it when you sell, then you should consider that a win.

 

EDIT: I don't know why I'm having trouble with the forum. Here's the car (I hope):

 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[1957Birdman]

Matt,

I agree with your observations. I will add that the early Mustangs, especially the convertibles are prone to rust if they were delivered and driven in any place other than Southern California or Arizona. I speak from experience having inherited a 1966 hardtop when I got married in 1977 and later on buying a 1966 convertible that were both Maryland cars. I also had a aunt in Pennsylvania that bought her car new in 1965 that I almost bought in 1974. All of these cars had rust problems of one sort or another within 5 years of manufacture. It is the rare early Mustang that has not had to have some sort of rust repair. This is all by way of saying that these cars need to be thoroughly vetted before plunking down your hard earned money. It is really easy to get fooled by a good paint job on a car that has structural issues. IMHO this a definitely a look before you leap situation.

Lew