Interstate 10 closed indefinitely between AZ & CA ......

[Trulyvintage]

For anyone planning on taking the I-10 .......

 

@ http://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/california-freeway-bridge-collapses-blocking-ariz-traffic/ar-AAdcnVB?ocid=mailsignout

 

 

 

 

Jim

[Guest]

"The rains came amid a second day of showers and thunderstorms in southern and central California that were setting rainfall records in what is usually a dry month."

 

Are you listening Al Gore?   

[John_S_in_Penna]

Looking at a map, I see there are alternative routes

for travelers:  Route 62, which is an interesting 2-lane

highway (a bit out of the way), and a number of gravel

roads that are relatively close by.

 

Not surprisingly, the news article tends to sensationalize

the problem:  "That means those seeking to travel between

California and Arizona would be forced to go hundreds of miles

out of their way to Interstate 8 to the south or Interstate 40 to the north."

 

Until temporary solutions are put in place,

the smaller roads could actually be scenic diversions for vacationers.

[rocketraider]

Striking out on 2-lanes is the way to travel if you want to see more than the back of a semi. Unfortunately, too many people rely on GPS to get them to their destination, a GPS would never recognize those roads, and most people no longer know how to read maps anyway.

 

Did I mention I love my DeLorme Atlas & Gazetteer maps?

[John_S_in_Penna]

Rocketraider Glenn, I have the same "Atlas and Gazetteer"

books for a couple of states, and have found them very useful.

 

Also, when planning a trip, I ALWAYS look at maps and

decide for myself.  I want the big picture--to know the

geography of the state and which scenic routes I may divert to--

rather than letting a computer decide for me.

 

I have known people whose over-reliance on Global Positioning

has dulled their senses of direction.

[capngrog]

I really enjoy my Garmin GPS, especially when finding local area addresses.  With that said, I enjoy my DeLorme Maps and Atlases even more.  Whenever I cross a state line on an Interstate, I stop at the first welcome center to get a copy of the latest state map.  The price is right (free), and I have found the folks behind the counter to be always friendly and helpful.  My Garmin GPS, if set in the mode to find the shortest route to some place, often tries to take me down unpaved Fire Service roads.  When using a GPS, a sense of geographical awareness (as supplied by a real map) is always helpful.

 

Still a dinosaur,

Grog

 

 

[Guest Skyking]

People no longer know how to read maps anyway

 

 

 

Maybe that's a good thing!  They'd be doing that too while driving.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Skyking (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Capngrog, it sounds like you use new inventions wisely.

I'm a generation or more younger than many AACA members,

but I find maps educational, and far more so than GPS systems.

 

If all a person ever did was follow an artificial voice--"turn left" here,

"take the ramp" there, he would never know, for example, where

Chicago is in relation to Michigan and where Michigan is in relation

to Indiana and Ohio.  A child raised on GPS without maps could be

geographically illiterate. 

 

Please don't ever think that intelligence--thinking for yourself--

makes you a "dinosaur."  Don't even use the terms of your critics!

Edited July 20, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

Grog- a couple years back I was leaving the farm around 8PM one December night. As you can guess, pretty dark.

 

When I got to end of my gravel secondary road I noticed a Tundra pickup across the intersection on the tarmac county road. I pulled into the county road and in mirror, saw it head down the gravel road and turn into my driveway. Needless to say I turned around.

 

Guy was from Richmond area and was trying to get to Yanceyville NC, about 15 miles away. He had a GPS that had tried to route him down the gravel road- which dead-ends at the state line, then turns into a farm road crossing into NC before becoming gravel secondary road again in NC. No way would that Tundra have got thru the farm road. After a good laugh, I told him the quickest way to get to Yanceyville, and it didn't involve farm roads or half a dozen left and right turns onto unlined narrow secondary roads and another wagon path.

 

I still like hardcopy maps. I just wish DeLorme would make large print versions!

[ply33]

Looking at a map, I see there are alternative routes

for travelers:  Route 62, which is an interesting 2-lane

highway (a bit out of the way), and a number of gravel

roads that are relatively close by.

 

Not surprisingly, the news article tends to sensationalize

the problem:  "That means those seeking to travel between

California and Arizona would be forced to go hundreds of miles

out of their way to Interstate 8 to the south or Interstate 40 to the north."

 

Until temporary solutions are put in place,

the smaller roads could actually be scenic diversions for vacationers.

I've done CA62 from Twentynine Palms to Parker a number of times, most recently a couple years ago in my '33 on a trip from the SF Bay Area to Tucson for a car show where we avoided freeways for the entire trip.

 

I think it is a viable way across the Mohave as long as you start with a full tank of gas as there is one section where there is nothing, including no gas stations for over 100 miles.

 

The big problem is that it is a old style two lane road. While this is an advantage normally, putting a significant part of I10's traffic on it could make it a long crawl with any slow vehicle (there are some grades) backing up long lines of traffic. I am just as happy to have the official recommendations be for using I8 or I40.

[smithbrother]

I could see it now,,,,,,map laying on the steering wheel, phone on one ear, drink in the other hand, and knee under the steering wheel,

trying to keep it on the road.

Dale in Indy

[joe_padavano]

While I dispise turn-by-turn GPS navigation (I don't take direction well), tools like Google Maps actually are a great replacment for paper maps.  I can get the same information on Google Maps that I can with paper, and the on-line map is usually (but not always) more up to date.  I can also switch to satellite view to get a better understanding of what the road really looks like, as opposed to trying to figure out what that particular line means from the key.  The only downside has been when I set off using Google Maps on my phone and the trip takes me to an area of no data coverage.  Then I'm screwed! 

 

Yeah, it's happened once.  Now I check the coverage map in addition to the road map.

[Guest]

  Better to use a map. A person is much better equipped using a map and following signs to find their way back or to the same destination by having to use their head. This turn left , rt, go for 100 miles turn left business does nothing for the memory process, besides if you rely on that stuff what will you do when the EMP drops????

[Guest]

  Time to call the Seabees, Probably have it taken care of in a day or two.

[dictator27]

At least there is a detour available.  If you have a road atlas that includes Canada look up British Columbia, find Prince George (centre of the province), then go south down Highway 97 North to Cache Creek.  You will notice that 97N is the only road available.  For much of its length it is a narrow two lane road.  Last fall my sister-in-law was travelling by bus from Prince George down to Hope for a family visit when an accident involving a semi which spilled its load closed the highway near 100 Mile House.  The only detour available was considered unsuitable for large vehicles and car drivers were warned to take it very slow or risk damage to their vehicles.  With nowhere else to go the bus sat for six hours.

 

Terry

[joe_padavano]

  Better to use a map. A person is much better equipped using a map and following signs to find their way back or to the same destination by having to use their head. This turn left , rt, go for 100 miles turn left business does nothing for the memory process, besides if you rely on that stuff what will you do when the EMP drops????

 

Um...

 

Google Maps IS a map.  It's just on a screen instead of on paper.  It's much easier to fold back up and doesn't blow away with the windows open. Also, as my arms get shorter and shorter, I can zoom in instead of searching around for the reading glasses.

 

As for the EMP comment, I like to point out to folks that my cars will run after the EMP comes (or after the cops get EMP guns). 

[John_S_in_Penna]

One way the Global Positioning System could be improved:

 

---Have a screen in the car as big as Tesla's.

A broader view would eliminate "tunnel vision";

 

---Have a way, by dragging and dropping, to set your

route on the computer--perhaps on your home computer,

downloaded onto your GPS.  Then you will have thinkingly planned

your own route, and in the car you'll be given directions

by the GPS voice.

 

I think that your own alertness to your driving environment,

looking for signs, remembering landmarks, builds experience and

directional knowledge more than listening to a voice does;  

but the method above would make the GPS even more useful. 

Edited July 20, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[capngrog]

 

 

---Have a way, by dragging and dropping, to set your

route on the computer--perhaps on your home computer,

downloaded onto your GPS.  Then you will have thinkingly planned

your own route, and in the car you'll be given directions

by the GPS voice.

 

 

As with John, above,  I like to do my preliminary planning (on my home computer with a paper map by my side) using MapQuest or Google Maps, then I look at the scenery using Google Earth, zooming in on small towns etc.  I use the "Panoramio" feature of Google Earth to view locally shot ground level photos taken by tourists so as to give me an idea of what the local attractions look like.  A very useful feature of Google Earth is that it highlights the locations of motels/hotels (along with phone numbers etc.) in any town that might be considered as an overnight destination. The "dragging and dropping" feature of MapQuest is very useful in determining what a scenic side trip may cost in terms of miles driven and time on the road. 

 

Once on the road, I proceed with my trusty paper maps and Garmin GPS.

 

Time for a road trip,

Grog

[Mark Huston]

I just returned to California from Houston, TX on July 16^th, one long road trip.  Part of the route I drove was the I-10 portion that is now washed out.  One of the alternate routes that is being suggested to motorists is to use route 95 which was previously part of the famous Route 66.  I used 95 to go from I-40 to I-8.  It is a very remote and lonely two lane road.  Which makes me wonder how interesting it was to travel on back in the days when Route 66 was the established way of traveling from LA to the Chicago area?  I have attached a couple of pictures that I took this past week on 95 near Needles, CA.  I pity the person who breaks down out in this desolate area along 95 (previously Route 66). 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Um...

 

Google Maps IS a map.  It's just on a screen instead of on paper.  It's much easier to fold back up and doesn't blow away with the windows open. Also, as my arms get shorter and shorter, I can zoom in instead of searching around for the reading glasses.

 

As for the EMP comment, I like to point out to folks that my cars will run after the EMP comes (or after the cops get EMP guns). 

 Your car may run if it does not have electronic ignition and electronic fuel injection, but you won't be able to get gas and your GPS certainly will not work. Better get that paper map...and a horse.

[joe_padavano]

 Your car may run if it does not have electronic ignition and electronic fuel injection,

 

Kind of my point... (or should I say, points - and carb)

[John_S_in_Penna]

I read the news that that highway

will be reopened in a day or two.

Flash floods, not unusual in the desert,

had undermined some part of the supports

for a low bridge.

 

Relatively minor problem, easy solution, and now the press

will have to find another topic to build up!

[Guest]

I read the news that that highway

will be reopened in a day or two.

Flash floods, not unusual in the desert,

had undermined some part of the supports

for a low bridge.

 

Relatively minor problem, easy solution, and now the press

will have to find another topic to build up!

 Yep, that's what happens when you don't maintain these washes. The debris collects under the bridge and gets caught on the pilasters and in the tunnels causing mass erosion due to the extreme pressure. I love that " indefinite " closure comment out of Cal Trans.

 

  I still say send in the Seabees. Every one remember the base of Tinian? Examine this bit of history on the north field;

Once under American control, a massive construction project was begun on the north end of Tinian. Operating for over 45 days and nights, often while under fire, the Seabees initially repaired and extended the existing 4,380 ft runway and then added an additional two runways, each 8,000 ft long and lying in an East-West direction. Nearly the entire northern end of the island was occupied by runways, the airfield area, and the various support facilities and containment areas.

The Ushi Point Airfield was expanded with three 8000' runways involving the movement of nearly 1,000,000 cubic yards of earth and coral and the accumulation of some 900,000 truck miles. A fourth runway was constructed in May 1945 and hardstands built for 265 B-29 bombers. The four parallel 8,000 ft runways are oriented nearly East-West. Upon completion, North Field was the largest airfield in the world.

 

Now why can't we fill this tiny gash in I10?????  

[joe_padavano]

Now why can't we fill this tiny gash in I10?????  

 

It's been done before.  Remember when a section of I10 collapsed in downtown L.A. after the Northridge quake?  Initial repair estimates were several years.  CalTrans eliminated the red tape, put financial incentives in place, and the freeway reopened in 10 months.

 

Of course, some of the lengthy initial estimates may just be managing expectations...

[ply33]

Of course, some of the lengthy initial estimates may just be managing expectations...

Bingo. I've been pretty impressed with how well CalTrans reacts to emergency repairs of that nature, they seem to try to under promise and over deliver.

 

They are doing the easy stuff for the Friday opening (a number of places where dirt was washed away leaving unsupported or poorly supported roadbed) and will be diverting traffic on to the surviving bridge. I think they will also have built two cross overs to divert and return traffic to the normal lanes. Rebuilding the bridge what washed out will take longer.

 

Since it is not in the middle of an (sub)urban area with annoyed commuters/voters it would not surprise me if the bridge rebuild takes a while. It will likely be 3 or 4 months before I next drive that direction I would not be surprised if the temporary measures are still in place at that time with construction continuing on the bridge.

[Mark Simmons]

As a former SEABEE, MCB-3, I agree with Helfen. One call to Port Huemneme(sp) Seabee home on the west coast . One day equipment travel, two day operation(construction), day four open road in both directions. Get the hell out of the way CalTrans or you may get run over by some classic car going to Arizona or coming to California.      

[Vila]

As a retired USAF and Air National Guard Navigator with 32 years of flying experience, a GPS should be an aid to navigating and not the only means of navigating.

 

Use a paper map or Google maps to plan your route then use a GPS to back it up if you need one.    But by the time you plan a trip on a paper map or Google maps you most likely won't need the GPS, I have never used one  of the land based GPS's with the built in maps.  

 

I have seen to many instances where the land navigating GPS's provide the shortest route that ends up taking twice as long when it takes you on an extremely congested route or following the GPS turn by turn to the wrong location that several miles from where they intended to go.

 

Vila